Southwest Airlines Expands Atlanta Service With Two New Nonstop Destinations

[Music]

If I had to guess, this thing won't go to Arbitration. If it does, it won't matter what the result is (unless it favors SWAPA), we won't be integrated. That much is nearly certain. So it's time to quit the Arbitration rhetoric, because it isn't going to matter.

 

[Sacha]

No dog in this fight, but ... I don't think that will factor into an arbitrator's decision -- if that's the road that's taken. It didn't with NW/DL.

True. But then unlike NW, Airtran only has 737's and 717's. We don't necessarily need the 717's. Reality check.

 

[b747dogg]

You rolled the dice, and you may lose out. You don't now take it out on your fellow Airtran classmates. Maybe they didn't want to leave ATL, or live in OAK. It was your opinion that SWA was better for you, when the others may have liked their current situation. That's the way it goes. If it goes to arbitration, see if you can go in front of the 3 judges and tell them that story, and maybe they'll shed a tear and put you as #1 on the total list!



Bye Bye----General Lee

I rolled the dice and won, so far. My career has been way better with the path I chose. My classmates tried to leave for better places, but couldn't get hired. I know, I saw them at the interviews. (SWA, NWA). I have no bad feelings towards the Airtran folk, good for them. Cheers.

 

[laker4284]

Why is SWA longevity superior to AAI longevity?

Purely on a seniority only basis, one would have to say it isn't. BUT considering the massive pay and benefit differential, seniority by itself isn't and likely shouldn't be the only determining factor.

Essentially, the Air Tran guys want and expect the money and bennies they never had, from an airline many of them were not qualified to join, all while enjoying seniority due to an expansion with an airline that is barely breaking even and has little if anything in the way of cash reserves and thus likely a very uncertain future.

The Air Tran people get a windfall.

That's what seems to be outraging the SWA guys.

 

[Empennage]

You rolled the dice, and you may lose out. You don't now take it out on your fellow Airtran classmates. Maybe they didn't want to leave ATL, or live in OAK. It was your opinion that SWA was better for you, when the others may have liked their current situation. That's the way it goes. If it goes to arbitration, see if you can go in front of the 3 judges and tell them that story, and maybe they'll shed a tear and put you as #1 on the total list!



Bye Bye----General Lee

Gentlemen your point holds up under the national seniority list concept. It appears your statements and opinions refer to the fact that you support such a concept.

As far as arbitration goes, it's no longer required if what you state is what you state.

 

[Empennage]

Purely on a seniority only basis, one would have to say it isn't. BUT considering the massive pay and benefit differential, seniority by itself isn't and likely shouldn't be the only determining factor.

Essentially, the Air Tran guys want and expect the money and bennies they never had, from an airline many of them were not qualified to join, all while enjoying seniority due to an expansion with an airline that is barely breaking even and has little if anything in the way of cash reserves and thus likely a very uncertain future.

The Air Tran people get a windfall.

That's what seems to be outraging the SWA guys.

Pointless to continue to debate.

What concerns me most is why would three airline folks be so obsessed with something which has nothing to do with them. It is extremely disconcerting.

Additionally, the lack of ethical behavior demonstrated is appalling. When this sli is completed we will open this discussion.

 

[madjack]

I personally have never stated that AAI longevity is any more or less valuable than SWA longevity...I am an old, senior SWA FO...many SWA pilots are, on average older than the AAI FOs (the argument being it takes longer to get the competitive mins to be hired at SWA) would be hurt by a DOH integration. Such an integration would result in AAI pilots populating the most senior positions on the SWA MSL after 10 or so years...just sayin...but this has all been discussed ad nauseum...both sides no the arguments by heart...

 

[General Lee]

I personally have never stated that AAI longevity is any more or less valuable than SWA longevity...I am an old, senior SWA FO...many SWA pilots are, on average older than the AAI FOs (the argument being it takes longer to get the competitive mins to be hired at SWA) would be hurt by a DOH integration. Such an integration would result in AAI pilots populating the most senior positions on the SWA MSL after 10 or so years...just sayin...but this has all been discussed ad nauseum...both sides no the arguments by heart...

Madjack,

Age doesn't matter to arbitrators. Besides the huge amount of DL retirements just before the BK, there are year 2007 DL hires senior to year 2000 hires at NWA in the arbitrated award, because of relative seniority. Lots of crazy stuff, but that is how it works, and because your team didn't give a "fair" offer to the Airtran guys in their eyes, you get to experience this. The Process Agreement was signed by all parties. If it goes to arbitration, you can give testimony as to why you believe your pilot group should get the lion's share of the top of the list, but that doesn't mean they have to follow it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

there are year 2007 DL hires senior to year 2000 hires at NWA in the arbitrated award

So Genital,

The Northwest guy was okay with that? Just asking..

 

[General Lee]

So Genital,

The Northwest guy was okay with that? Just asking..

Probably not, but they agreed to the process, and honored it, unlike the USAir Easties. Those year 2000 NWA pilots probably are a bit ticked, but most of them were furloughed after 9-11, and they actually came back and were given "longevity pay" at DL, and they would NOT have gotten that at NWA. If they were employed for 1 year at NWA, and got furloughed for 5, then they came back to year 2 pay. At DL, they were given credit for the time out on furlough (year 7 pay). Another thing the NWA guys got was a higher hourly wage, better work rules, and a choice of Southern bases that many have taken advantage of. Most of the FNWA pilots I fly with overseas (3 man crew) seem to understand the award, and while some aren't very pleased with the eventual award, they are pleased overall with the merger.

You guys have already made your merger miserable for your Airtran brothers and sisters, and the threats on this board and others sure don't help. Looks like you may be headed for a repeat of the USAir fiasco. You had the blueprints of a "successful" merger right infront of you, and you blew it. Your group got greedy, and still thinks the Airtran pilots are sub-human who are "lucky" to have a chance at being on your list. I just don't think the arbitrators will agree with that if you give them the chance. But, it's your fault, and hopefully you will come out ok and continue to be number 2 at ATL someday.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Your group got greedy,

Bye Bye---General Lee

2 million per pilot on the AAI side and 'we' were greedy? You need to put down the crack pipe Gen. Funniest stuff I read on here for awhile..thanks for the laugh.

RF

 

[General Lee]

2 million per pilot on the AAI side and 'we' were greedy? You need to put down the crack pipe Gen. Funniest stuff I read on here for awhile..thanks for the laugh.

RF

Were YOU giving them $2 million, or GK? SWAPA doesn't lose a dime, and neither do you. Lost upgrade time you say? Airtran is bringing planes and orders with them. Even if the 717s are leaving eventually, they will be replaced. You're right, your response is the funniest stuff I have read on here for awhile. You actually believe YOU are being harmed financially! You aren't losing a dime. Maybe the three arbitrators will decide if you are right, and I think you might not like the outcome. Funny stuff indeed.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Sacha]

General/OYS,

Decided to be the Male persona today, eh OYS?

Trannies. Please listen to these trolls and take their advice. More and more of us at SWA don't want any part of this (except the assets). Let them lead you and our prayers will be answered. Read the letter from Laura Wright and imagine how that might turn out. Especiially in light of the continuing Economic Meltdown. See what is happening in Europe. Economically what is happening may end up being worse than 9/11 or 2008. What decisions do you think airline managements are going to make?

OYS,General Lee,Lumberg....please carry on.....you actually are helping us.

 

[Andy]

Were YOU giving them $2 million, or GK? SWAPA doesn't lose a dime, and neither do you. Lost upgrade time you say? Airtran is bringing planes and orders with them. Even if the 717s are leaving eventually, they will be replaced. You're right, your response is the funniest stuff I have read on here for awhile. You actually believe YOU are being harmed financially! You aren't losing a dime. Maybe the three arbitrators will decide if you are right, and I think you might not like the outcome. Funny stuff indeed.


Bye Bye---General Lee

GL, you should know that the combined list will instantly have a surplus of pilots. All pilots on the combined list will see reduced hours which will result in smaller paychecks for the current SWAPA pilots - I have always been impressed how SWAPA shares the pain during lean times ... that's the way that all unions used to be. So to say that the current SWAPA pilots won't lose a dime is disingenuous.

 

[General Lee]

GL, you should know that the combined list will instantly have a surplus of pilots. All pilots on the combined list will see reduced hours which will result in smaller paychecks for the current SWAPA pilots - I have always been impressed how SWAPA shares the pain during lean times ... that's the way that all unions used to be. So to say that the current SWAPA pilots won't lose a dime is disingenuous.

Instantly? You mean before SOC? Before SOC each airline still operates on their own, and each airline has a strategy for competition in their own areas. After SOC, it is up to GK to decide where to put each plane, and the 717 may go outside ATL and pick up 737 routes that aren't as full on the West Coast. The SWA CFO (Laura Wright) just stated that 2012 will be flat for growth. Is that because of the Airtran purchase, or just because 2012 will be a dud year? Could that be a reason SWA pilots don't make EXTRA money? GK decided this merger would work, and he will have to figure out how to put the pieces together. That CFO stated it would take SEVERAL years to return the 717s, so nothing will be parked INSTANTLY, as you stated. Disingenuous, Andy? I expected more insight from you than that. And just because United didn't do that for you, doesn't mean other unions didn't help their own. After the 9-11 furlough, Delta's cap was 75 hours total per month for years, plus Cobra. You and OYS know what has happened to your airline, and you may actually go back someday. I hope it has changed for the better.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General/OYS,

Decided to be the Male persona today, eh OYS?

Trannies. Please listen to these trolls and take their advice. More and more of us at SWA don't want any part of this (except the assets). Let them lead you and our prayers will be answered. Read the letter from Laura Wright and imagine how that might turn out. Especiially in light of the continuing Economic Meltdown. See what is happening in Europe. Economically what is happening may end up being worse than 9/11 or 2008. What decisions do you think airline managements are going to make?

OYS,General Lee,Lumberg....please carry on.....you actually are helping us.

Sorry Sacha, OYS is right, you will be losing if this deal goes the way of arbitration. And thanks to the Bond/McKaskil law, you can't just dismantle Airtran like you say you can. Sorry, a binding list will be in your future, and maybe you can follow one of the 717s to Indonesia someday. You could tell them all about Eastern and how the DC6s were such fun to fly into New Amsterdam.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[On Your Six]

Sorry Sacha, OYS is right, you will be losing if this deal goes the way of arbitration. And thanks to the Bond/McKaskil law, you can't just dismantle Airtran like you say you can. Sorry, a binding list will be in your future, and maybe you can follow one of the 717s to Indonesia someday. You could tell them all about Eastern and how the DC6s were such fun to fly into New Amsterdam.


Bye Bye---General Lee

New Amsterdam? LOL! Good stuff Lee!


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Instantly? You mean before SOC? Before SOC each airline still operates on their own, and each airline has a strategy for competition in their own areas. After SOC, it is up to GK to decide where to put each plane, and the 717 may go outside ATL and pick up 737 routes that aren't as full on the West Coast. The SWA CFO (Laura Wright) just stated that 2012 will be flat for growth. Is that because of the Airtran purchase, or just because 2012 will be a dud year? Could that be a reason SWA pilots don't make EXTRA money? GK decided this merger would work, and he will have to figure out how to put the pieces together. That CFO stated it would take SEVERAL years to return the 717s, so nothing will be parked INSTANTLY, as you stated. Disingenuous, Andy? I expected more insight from you than that. And just because United didn't do that for you, doesn't mean other unions didn't help their own. After the 9-11 furlough, Delta's cap was 75 hours total per month for years, plus Cobra. You and OYS know what has happened to your airline, and you may actually go back someday. I hope it has changed for the better.



Bye Bye---General Lee

I'm very happy to be at my new job btw!


Godspeed!


OYS

 

[737 Driver]

It's strange that In Your Six and GL post one right after another? Could there be two browsers open at once?
That makes me go, Hmmmmmmmm.

 

[SWA/FO]

It's strange that In Your Six and GL post one right after another? Could there be two browsers open at once?
That makes me go, Hmmmmmmmm.

Some people eat after sex and others smoke. I guess these guys like to type on flightinfo after they spend some "RD" time together.