Southwest Airlines Expands Atlanta Service With Two New Nonstop Destinations

[Andy]

Really?? Cheap fares!. SWA is no longer considered a discount airlines. In fact, most of its regular fares are more expensive than other major airlines.

Grandpa...you are correct until you do the math...by looking at straight fares we are often higher. But you add all of the fees and we are usually the lowest by far. That is a fact. And when the new stupid passenger bill of rights pass all airlines will have to show their fees up front. Good for swa not so much for others.

You both have some valid points but miss others.

Southwest can be beat by other carriers most of the time for cheapest fare. Most that buy the cheapest fare usually pack the biggest carryon bag that they can to avoid baggage fees.

The big price difference is on unrestricted fares. I did a bit of flying IAD/BWI-SAT on my own dime. If I booked in advance, I could get a good fare on the legacies if I opted to not try nonrevving on United (as a furloughee, I could nonrev). The legacies - specifically AMR and DAL - always beat AirTran and Southwest's lowest prices. And I never checked a bag.

If I went the nonrev route, I would always buy a fully refundable ticket as a backup. That ticket was always purchased on AirTran or Southwest, although usually on AirTran. I never used any of those tickets; I always called in to cancel them once I cleared a nonrev seat.

 

[puddlejumper101]

it comes down to who has control over fares. Let's make no mistake that Delta will match and probably beat most domestic fares out of ATL, but...in the end who does that affect more. A $150.00 ticket on DAL will yield far less (if it even does that), than $150.00 on SWA. So DAL will match, but won't be making any money out of it. ATL has plenty of originating traffic, and that's what determines how big SWA gets in a particular city. SLC is a good example, like someone else brought up. DAL matches every fare to what Airtran charges, but DAL could afford to make up the difference in another market since Airtran is a blip compared to DAL. SWA... not so much. One telling way is the RJ distribution. DAL will soon figure out where it can compete, and where it can't. Those cities where they can't will become RJ cities (like HOU), where DAL is only interested in bringing the international Pax to ATL. DAL is not going out of business cause SWA is in ATL, but what it does do is pricing power is gone on many domestic routes. Training, maintenance, productivity are all things DAL can't beat SWA except with RJs.

 

[Andy]

it comes down to who has control over fares. Let's make no mistake that Delta will match and probably beat most domestic fares out of ATL, but...in the end who does that affect more. A $150.00 ticket on DAL will yield far less (if it even does that), than $150.00 on SWA. So DAL will match, but won't be making any money out of it. ATL has plenty of originating traffic, and that's what determines how big SWA gets in a particular city. SLC is a good example, like someone else brought up. DAL matches every fare to what Airtran charges, but DAL could afford to make up the difference in another market since Airtran is a blip compared to DAL. SWA... not so much. One telling way is the RJ distribution. DAL will soon figure out where it can compete, and where it can't. Those cities where they can't will become RJ cities (like HOU), where DAL is only interested in bringing the international Pax to ATL. DAL is not going out of business cause SWA is in ATL, but what it does do is pricing power is gone on many domestic routes. Training, maintenance, productivity are all things DAL can't beat SWA except with RJs.

Yield management is incredibly complex. It's a dark art best left to computer nerds using Cray supercomputers.
Don't waste the gray matter trying to make sense of it.

 

[Dan Roman]

s
(as a furloughee, I could nonrev).
.

Thanks to ALPA!

 

[puddlejumper101]

Yield management is incredibly complex. It's a dark art best left to computer nerds using Cray supercomputers.
Don't waste the gray matter trying to make sense of it.

yeah you are right, in the end I don't know how much damage SWA does to DAL in ATL beyond what it already does. Simply put, the bigger the network, the more damage SWA does. If I live in FLL and need to get to LAX then that's where a pax has choices between carriers. This doesn't change with SWA in ATL, just more cities that network carriers have to compete with SWA...that is about it.

 

[Andy]

Thanks to ALPA!

So the furloughed flight attendants, CSRs and other furloughed employee groups should have thanked ALPA for keeping nonrev privileges????? I'll let them know who to thank - I suspect that they'll quickly thank ALPA/me for summer 2000.

 

[Dan Roman]

So the furloughed flight attendants, CSRs and other furloughed employee groups should have thanked ALPA for keeping nonrev privileges????? I'll let them know who to thank - I suspect that they'll quickly thank ALPA/me for summer 2000.

I said that half tongue in cheek. Your comment about summer of 2000 says a lot. I couldn't agree more that it was an embarrassment to the profession. But it was a United pilots decision, not an ALPA one. I'm sure they would have done the same if they were UALPA. Just like APA and USAPA have.

 

[Andy]

I said that half tongue in cheek. Your comment about summer of 2000 says a lot. I couldn't agree more that it was an embarrassment to the profession. But it was a United pilots decision, not an ALPA one. I'm sure they would have done the same if they were UALPA. Just like APA and USAPA have.

Gotcha on the TIC.
A lot of employee groups have very long memories. We could discuss the levels of blame for what happened but that doesn't matter to a cranky CSR or FA. The Public Relations machine worked and the pilots did not make an extraordinary effort to defuse the negative PR. PR is a huge achilles heel of all pilot unions; a small PR investment would go a long way to stem those attacks.

 

[Grandpa +65]

Days over for Southwest fuel cost advantage-CFO
Southwest Airlines, whose fuel hedges were once the envy of the U.S. airline industry, still uses them to manage volatile fuel costs, but the carrier no longer spends far less on fuel than rivals, Southwest's chief financial officer said on Wednesday. Speaking on a webcast of the Dahlman Rose & Co global transportation conference, Laura Wright said the cost of buying options to lock in lower fuel prices has risen and the instruments are best used now to blunt the impact of a sudden surge fuel prices. Southwest, the largest U.S. low-cost airline, enjoyed a major cost advantage over competitors in the middle of the last decade thanks to layers of hedges that ensured fuel costs that were well below market prices. The hedging program gave Southwest a significant advantage over unhedged rivals as fuel followed oil futures to a record high in 2008. Southwest's lucrative hedges have since expired and the industry playing field is more level.
Source: Reuters, Sept. 7

 

[ugasucks]

Wait till SWA lands on 28 and then has to taxi to ramp 3 at 9am for a 30 min. turn. They will feel the LUV then.

 

[slaquer5]

it comes down to who has control over fares. Let's make no mistake that Delta will match and probably beat most domestic fares out of ATL,

Very true, except DAL will get alot of ill will when they charge 100 bucks to go ATL- LAX but 900 dollars, or more, to fly somewhere a 1/3 of the distance with no competition.

Does not look good to your frequent fliers.

 

[maru657]

SLC, 1994, Morris Air was kicking Delta out of Salt Lake. Then Southwest entered the arena and Delta came back stronger than ever. Now, regarding the possibility that Southwest will continue to add routes in ATL and slowly shut down AirTran. When is that scabbing?

 

[shootr]

Never. The definition of scabbing is specific.

 

[Fubijaakr]

You have to admit, SWA is kicking butt in DEN. It could easily happen in ATL if DAL assumes it can't happen.

 

[jonjuan]

Does not look good to your frequent fliers.

Nor does cattle car seating, no F, no clubs, and no international destinations to use miles.

 

[puddlejumper101]

Wait till SWA lands on 28 and then has to taxi to ramp 3 at 9am for a 30 min. turn. They will feel the LUV then.

that won't be a problem...it will be like Philly where the times are padded. As long as the WX holds up ATL should be ok. Trust me, they have this already figured out. ATL is very busy but also very efficient. Very LAX like...yes 30 or 35 min turns will not be a problem in ATL either. There are days when it won't happen, but those are the same days where everyone will be impacted. I have seen Philly flights with an extra 45 minutes of padding. We leave the gate takeoff 45 mins later and are still on time.

 

[Quimby]

Wait till SWA lands on 28 and then has to taxi to ramp 3 at 9am for a 30 min. turn. They will feel the LUV then.

Not 28!

Oh, the horror!

 

[igneousy2]

Never. The definition of scabbing is specific.

exactly...nobody is on strike...nobody is flying struck work.

 

[GuppyWN]

You have to admit, SWA is kicking butt in DEN. It could easily happen in ATL if DAL assumes it can't happen.

Somebody better tell Fubi that someone hacked his account and made a pro Southwest comment!

Gup

 

[laker4284]

You guys need to dig a little deeper than the obvious. SWA didn't buy Morris for its SLC ops. As was pointed out, SLC is a relatively small O&D city. Rather, SWA bought them for instant access to many of Morris' other cities (i.e. SEA, PDX) in the face of the new and unknown United Shuttle. That kind of quick reassessment of competition allowed SWA(and has allowed them in other situations) to get a foot in the door and, ultimately, beat back the Shuttle. God knows we all know how THAT turned out.

Mock SWA all you want, but there are very few places where they failed, NO places they don't make money, they haven't furloughed and they haven't been bankrupt. They just keep on keepin' on.

If SWA perceives that the Air Tran thing isn't going to work as they had hoped they most definitely, based on their history, can (and will?) amend their original plan, possibly in ways that the Air Tran folks won't be happy with.

They are a wicked good competitor.