Southern Air

[unwashed]

Maybe because according to the DOT papers C360 acquired SAI and not the other way around. SAH is holding C360 which holds SAI. So maybe this whole seniority should be based on a different formula for the seniority list?

 

[belchfire]

Possibly because some of the guys got an offer before the certificate was issued to the company...

Kalitta doesn't have a training bond if that helps make your mind up.

 

[C-141/C-5]

I fail to understand why any of the C360 pilots were given anything other than the first day of class as your hire date...

To have some from C360 list their date of hire based upon your inteview date is bad enough..., Let alone half of your pilots one way, and the other half by 1st class date.

I have never heard of any other airline utilizing a "date of interview" or "date of offer" as the DOH, ever... Are there any other examples of this...?

It's not up to SA to interpret C360 DOH dates. They were given to the individual crewmembers before any merger was ever announced. Every company has different methods of developing DOH and seniority. C360 happened to be different from SA. SA morally and perhaps legally should not attempt to change C360 DOH dates.

The 360 guys got SA a raise, bonus, better airplanes, 400s, scheduling,etc. SA should be grateful and return the favor in good faith instead C360 guys were slapped in the face by this absurd changing of seniority dates.

Remember there is always a consequence for an action Good or bad. In the short term very few SA guys may be more senior, but in the long term if this influences some C360 guys not to come over to SA then the current SA pilots will have to pick up the additional flying. I don't know how you cram more flying in when you are already on the road 20 days.

 

[unwashed]

I fail to understand why any of the C360 pilots were given anything other than the first day of class as your hire date...

To have some from C360 list their date of hire based upon your inteview date is bad enough..., Let alone half of your pilots one way, and the other half by 1st class date.

I have never heard of any other airline utilizing a "date of interview" or "date of offer" as the DOH, ever... Are there any other examples of this...?

Let us ask US airways pilots what they think of the seniority list with the merged AWA. I have never heard of the acquired airline getting a bonus for being acquired. There are many ways of assigning DOH this is just one of them.

 

[unwashed]

Possibly because some of the guys got an offer before the certificate was issued to the company...

Kalitta doesn't have a training bond if that helps make your mind up.

It does, and I have submitted my resume with success. I hope to join the next round of interviews in DEC or JAN.

 

[dutch747]

I fail to understand why any of the C360 pilots were given anything other than the first day of class as your hire date...

To have some from C360 list their date of hire based upon your inteview date is bad enough..., Let alone half of your pilots one way, and the other half by 1st class date.

I have never heard of any other airline utilizing a "date of interview" or "date of offer" as the DOH, ever... Are there any other examples of this...?

Information based on hearsay. Seniority at Cargo360 has always been based by Date of Hire. For SAI to change seniority from date of hire to date of class start in the employment offer to C360 crew members and only those who have been there less than a year is the dispute. This only effects a handful of C360 crew members. This is also a violation of your own SACG contract. Read Section 1B:[FONT=&quot]Successorship.

I can't help but to believe this is a purposeful, willful attempt to divide the pilot groups.
[/FONT]

 

[pilotbrain]

dutch,

Well it not going to be divided evenly since we only have 70 pilots and sai has over 200 know. sorry just being a smart A$$. im just pump that im not going over there.

 

[dutch747]

dutch,

Well it not going to be divided evenly since we only have 70 pilots and sai has over 200 know. sorry just being a smart A$$. im just pump that im not going over there.

Neither am I bro....Neither am I.

 

[dakotaHC8]

Information based on hearsay. Seniority at Cargo360 has always been based by Date of Hire. For SAI to change seniority from date of hire to date of class start in the employment offer to C360 crew members and only those who have been there less than a year is the dispute. This only effects a handful of C360 crew members. This is also a violation of your own SACG contract. Read Section 1B:[FONT=&quot]Successorship.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I can't help but to believe this is a purposeful, willful attempt to divide the pilot groups.
[/FONT]

Let me put it to you this way.

You are hired when you start getting paid.

"Swimming" in a hiring pool awaiting a class date is not the same thing as being hired, and that is the industry norm

Unless C360 was paying you while you were awaiting a class date (for months in some cases), then your not "working for them" yet, are you...?

I've had dozens of job offers in my airline career, but I never considered myself hired until I was geting paid to show up. What about the people that were offered a position at C360, yet failed to show for class, should they be placed on the list also just because they were "offered a position" on a given date...?

I don't care if C360 determined your senority based on how tall you happen to be, what matters is that the Southern pilots were good enough to offer Date of Hire, and as such, you should utilize the SAME criteria as we do when determining what that date is.

Anything else places our pilots at a disadvatage, and honestly opens up a can of worms if we ever have to go through a future merger, with a pilot group that actually has union representation.

Like I said, I've never heard of a reputable outfit using your "offer date" as your DOH. Feel free to provide some examples of any such airlines, so you and the rest of the C360 pilots seeking to maintain this unfair advatage do not seem so far outta left field.

 

[Rookiy]

The seniorty issue is moot whether we agree or disagree.

It's clear that the employment offer is take it or leave it!

How about you just say "Thank you" for the $10000/$5000, new scheduler, new airplanes, etc..

Cheers

 

[Dream2fly]

Can we just get along!

Come on, Let's just work together.
We can make a better airline by trying to stick together.
We pilots are a bunch of babies.
We never stop complaining.
We forget about the past.
We just want more.
And more!!!

 

[dakotaHC8]

The seniorty issue is moot whether we agree or disagree.

How about you just say "Thank you" for the $10000, new scheduler, new airplanes, etc..

No...

Because I've been around the block long enough to know that those things pale in comparison to making sure you get your rightful place on the senority list.

And I'm betting you have too, so don't patronize me.

 

[dutch747]

Come on, Let's just work together.
We can make a better airline by trying to stick together.
We pilots are a bunch of babies.
We never stop complaining.
We forget about the past.
We just want more.
And more!!!

Don't worry about the talk. There's just want or two pencil d!cks causing trouble. You won't have to look far to figure out who I'm talking about either.^^^

 

[C-141/C-5]

Dakota just to clear things up... Cargo360 established our DOH dates way before any mention of a merger with SA. DOH was not determined by the date of a job offer it was determined by the date you accepted the job offer with a signature. There was never a hiring pool. The reason DOH was done this way was to eliminate age discrimination. If you actually looked at the original list you would see that there were classes with individuals in the same class with dates that varied by up to a week. This is because they did not accept employment right away and was penalized with a lower DOH date. I'm under the impression that SA thinks C360 was changing their DOH dates for increased seniority at SA, but that is absolutely false.

 

[skeeter666]

I just talked to SAI and they still require a training bond........

 

[skeeter666]

can anyone give me an idea on the schedule, pros and cons of this company.... how about the interview? Thanks-

 

[pilotbrain]

which company? and if your talking about sai, know one knows.. most likely 20 on 10 off.

 

[pilotbrain]

quote:: I just talked to SAI and they still require a training bond........

they are saying that in the interview, but haven't made anyone sign one yet. I have a friend that is in ground school over there now. hope this helps

 

[skeeter666]

Sorry, I meant Southern air inc. Thanks for the info, does anyone know about the interview? I need to call them back this afternoon to schedule an interview next week. I am not sure about that training bond. I did complere one, and got super abused one time. Thanks again- Skeeter

 

[coolarrow]

What is the pay like?

 

[dakotaHC8]

Dakota just to clear things up... Cargo360 established our DOH dates way before any mention of a merger with SA. DOH was not determined by the date of a job offer it was determined by the date you accepted the job offer with a signature. There was never a hiring pool. The reason DOH was done this way was to eliminate age discrimination. If you actually looked at the original list you would see that there were classes with individuals in the same class with dates that varied by up to a week. This is because they did not accept employment right away and was penalized with a lower DOH date. I'm under the impression that SA thinks C360 was changing their DOH dates for increased seniority at SA, but that is absolutely false.

How you established your senority for your own purposes is unimportant to this issue, since our pilot group was good enough to give you a date of hire merger with our list, and it is only right and fair that you use the same method we (and every other airline I know of) use to determine DOH.

But fair is not the issue here. What mattered most to Southern is to entice as many of your Captains as possible. And as such, accepting this strange and unconventional manner to determine the date of hire was pushed through, to place a nnumber of your more senior people ahead of Southern Captains who had been flying the line well before your company's first proving run.

So just count yourself lucky that this senority leap was "thrown in" with the rest of the incentives, and stop trying to convince anyone, that it was anything else.

Blue Skies.

 

[C-141/C-5]

The incentves were negotiated by Cargo360 management and they felt it was only fair for SA guys to get it also, which I totally agree with. Mr Neff told our CEO and Oak Hill that it was way too much to give the pilots, but our CEO made sure they were kept in tact.

SA can do whatever they want to do with the seniority integration, but don't call it DOH because it's not.

For the record I'm not making the cross over, but I wish both groups the best. I have been just trying to make the point that C360 has done a lot for the SA group and it would of been classy to follow DOH like it was originally advertised.

Fly Safe

 

[On Your Six]

The incentves were negotiated by Cargo360 management and they felt it was only fair for SA guys to get it also, which I totally agree with. Mr Neff told our CEO and Oak Hill that it was way too much to give the pilots, but our CEO made sure they were kept in tact.

SA can do whatever they want to do with the seniority integration, but don't call it DOH because it's not.

For the record I'm not making the cross over, but I wish both groups the best. I have been just trying to make the point that C360 has done a lot for the SA group and it would of been classy to follow DOH like it was originally advertised.

Fly Safe

With a background like yours I would apply to Delta ASAP! Delta likes MAC pilots.