Skybus Toast

[PCL_128]

There's a big difference between GIA and other training programs: unsuspecting passengers are brought along for the ride, and they don't know that there's a student pilot in the cockpit when they buy the ticket.

When an apprentice cuts your hair or a high school auto shop fixes your car, you're fully aware, and you get a significant discount for the risk. With GIA, you buy a ticket on Continental and, unless you're in this industry, you have no idea that the copilots for this airline are paying customers.

The PFT pilots at GIA aren't "student pilots." They have the same number of hours that many students at the RJ operators have nowadays. I used to fly with plenty of 250-500 hour pilots at PCL. No different than what GIA is getting. The GIA pilots have to pass 121 training just like any other pilot, the only difference is that they're paying for it instead of the airline.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

The question is...how will we treat them? Will we treat them as second class B scale pilots, thus allowing management to play us against each other?

There are always going to be completely selfish unethical real estate agents who will stop at nothing to achieve the highest pay check. Just like certain CEOs (Mesa CEO Jonathon Ornstein). I'm sure there will always be a few scumbags in this profession with the same absolute mentality as evidenced by the super scabs of the past who took a job away from someone on strike. The rest of us are human with at least some thought to others instead of taking extreme shortcuts. So the more shameful Skybus or Gulfstream is viewed, the less likely future pilots will be willing to make a similar step and the better off this profession.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

The PFT pilots at GIA aren't "student pilots." They have the same number of hours that many students at the RJ operators have nowadays. I used to fly with plenty of 250-500 hour pilots at PCL. No different than what GIA is getting. The GIA pilots have to pass 121 training just like any other pilot, the only difference is that they're paying for it instead of the airline.

Not the only difference; they are paying to pass an interview process. Interviewing which involves explaining your strengths and weaknesses is a very humbling experience. I think that is a huge distinction. At the excessive price of 30 grand (what the heck), that appears to be way out there in the ethical department.

 

[PCL_128]

Interviewing which involves explaining your strengths and weaknesses is a very humbling experience.

Not really. Does anyone truly give honest answers to those questions, anyway? It's all BS. Kit Darby makes a fortune by telling people how to BS their way through interviews.

At the excessive price of 30 grand (what the heck), that appears to be way out there in the ethical department.

Hey, I'm not arguing in favor of the 'stream, I'm just saying that throwing the pilots under the bus isn't a wise move. Thousands upon thousands of pilots have PFTed in the last two decades. Most of them are at majors now and are your union brothers. Some of them are union reps. Does it really make sense to attack them and alienate them for the rest of their careers for a mistake they made when they were newbies? That's up to you to decide.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The question is are the M3's (moniker messageboard minority) having an effect? Is the Hatin' workin'?

Where are GIA hopefuls? There are in high school and college. To hate the GIA alumni is counterproductive...

Perhaps the FI contingency should put together a picket at GIA headquarters!

 

[instructordude]

I wouldn't be suprised if GIA goes under too.

 

[Sedona16]

I wouldn't be suprised if GIA goes under too.

Ideally they would go under and you would get out of aviation as well. We can only dream.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Not really. Does anyone truly give honest answers to those questions, anyway? It's all BS. Kit Darby makes a fortune by telling people how to BS their way through interviews. Hey, I'm not arguing in favor of the 'stream, I'm just saying that throwing the pilots under the bus isn't a wise move. Thousands upon thousands of pilots have PFTed in the last two decades. Most of them are at majors now and are your union brothers. Some of them are union reps. Does it really make sense to attack them and alienate them for the rest of their careers for a mistake they made when they were newbies? That's up to you to decide.

Are you saying, the super scabs that actually took away someone's job while on strike should be completely forgiven. Even though ALPA officially forgave them at Continental, there should be some level of shame attached to such history. Gulfstream is not at the same degree as scabs, but on that pathway. Skybus was also. So yea, I think it is alright to attach some level of shame to certain career moves. Not complete alienation, but some level of shame. And in this information age, just pleading ignorance in recent times is quite questionable so a distinction can be made between now and the past. It's also far more respectable for someone to say attending Gulfstream was a complete mistake and I'd discourage future pilots from doing so than to try defend it's operation.

And back to interviewing, yea it's still humbling. Even with prep, you still have to answer to any past mistakes. If you don't feel humbled by the process, than you come across as arrogant. And I'd much rather fly with an average pilot with a great attitude than Chuck Yeager with an arrogant attitude.

 

[instructordude]

Ideally they would go under and you would get out of aviation as well. We can only dream.

I've considered it. As a relatively young person with a good attitude and work ethic I could find another field. Too bad you don't have those qualities, so I guess you're stuck; kept hostage by your narrow vision, poor attitude and lack of drive.:laugh::laugh: Get back to dreaming buddy.:laugh::laugh:

 

[Lear70]

Ideally, I would like to see every person who ever PFT'ed be required to go to every high school, vocational college, and accredited university (especially the ERAU, UND, MTSU colleges) and have to give a lecture on the pitfalls of PFT and why it's not required, as well as what they're getting themselves into.

I have friends who did GIA, even though I don't agree with it. That said, I would urge them to do the above, whether you call it "penance" or whatever, it can't do anything but HELP the profession to slow up the supply of pilots.

Open Skies 2 is the biggest current threat we face, followed closely by the MPL and foreign pilots taking our jobs, followed by the supply of young kids willing to pay for training or take $16k a year jobs at a regional.

THAT is where ALPA should be focusing their efforts. Control the supply and you control the pay. Doctors and Lawyers figured this out decades ago.

 

[PCL_128]

Are you saying, the super scabs that actually took away someone's job while on strike should be completely forgiven.

No, of course not. Anyone that took a job at an airline on strike knew exactly what they were doing. Kind of hard to misunderstand what's going on as you walk across the picket line. But to compare that to guys at GIA, newhire FOs at GoJet, JetU pilots, etc... is ridiculous. These guys are industry newbies. They don't have a clue how the industry works. I know I didn't. They're just looking for a way to get started in aviation. To label them as some sort of "scab" is counter-productive.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Gulfstream is not at the same degree as scabs, but on that pathway. Skybus was also.

However, what is really the deal here?

Is GIA and Skybus counter to what we stand for as free market capitalist in a ultra competitive hyperconsumption market place?

You might know my postion on Wal Mart....

As pilots we shame pilots for "whoring" at GIA and Skybus. We chide passengers for paying $99 Transcon fares...

but isn't that what our economy is all about? Because as pilots, we will quick look for the cheapest product and serivces in other industries but demand economic buffers and excemptions for ourselves!

Look, I am playing devils advocate here... and also stating that we as pilots can be hypocrites.

Discuss?

 

[Sedona16]

I've considered it. As a relatively young person with a good attitude and work ethic I could find another field. Too bad you don't have those qualities, so I guess you're stuck; kept hostage by your narrow vision, poor attitude and lack of drive.:laugh::laugh: Get back to dreaming buddy.:laugh::laugh:

I am exactly where I want to be. Your chances of getting here are slim. Do us a favor and leave. I think someone with your intellect and motivation might make "chief burger flipper" in under six months.

 

[chuckthepilot]

I think I found where all the management has been going after the shutdowns. :laugh: Sorry if this is old.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4wodh_jobmarket2009_fun

 

[instructordude]

Your chances of getting here are slim

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Wonder why I'm laughing?