Skybus Toast

[Fly2Scuba]

Gray issue - choosing to work for sub-par wages in order to enhance ones' career. Skybus - definitely bottom of the barrel on this one. What amazed me is who in their right mind besides a hippy trying to relive the 60s would have any kind of pride flying a giant butterfly on the tail orangish aircraft for 60s level wages not adjusting for inflation over the last 40 years offered all while wearing a forest ranger uniform. Clownish. I really feel bad for the pilots of Aloha, ATA, and Skyways this week. I feel bad for probably the minority of Skybus pilots who took this job as a last resort (family emergency - needed immediate income/insurance); the complete opportunists (former Mesa or Gojets pilots for example) - hard to sympathize at all.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How about Gulfstream PFT boy?

How about UND and ERAU? These schools are nothing but overpriced puppy farms!!

All these kids getting Daddy and Mommy to fork out huge amounts of cash so they can make embarrassing 'Top Gun' movies, join demo teams and get a shiney sticker on their resume...

No one needs a degree to fly for an airline... but everyone body does it... so we all have to do it...

If everybody flew for the 'Stream then we'd all have to do it.

If everybody flew Airbus' for 65K we'd all have to do it.

So where does that put the UND/ERAU guys?

 

[Fly2Scuba]

How about UND and ERAU? These schools are nothing but overpriced puppy farms!!

All these kids getting Daddy and Mommy to fork out huge amounts of cash so they can make embarrassing 'Top Gun' movies, join demo teams and get a shiney sticker on their resume...

No one needs a degree to fly for an airline... but everyone body does it... so we all have to do it...

If everybody flew for the 'Stream then we'd all have to do it.

If everybody flew Airbus' for 65K we'd all have to do it.

So where does that put the UND/ERAU guys?

Because as an airline captain, you are the manager of an aircraft and are directly responsible for its operation. A college education will make you a better rounded individual ready to take on those tasks. A 4 year degree also provides a background to get out of aviation for awhile should you be furloughed from an ethical carrier instead of chasing the lowest common denominator to remain in this career because you have no other education in any other area what so ever to fall back on. As to ERAU, I will agree going there today at their astronomical prices to a school that lacks in quality of non-aviation courses is not a good idea even if parents have a slush fund to pay for it. But it's way more respectable than Gulfstream.

 

[twepilot]

"A college education will make you a better rounded individual ready to take on those tasks"

Wrong! A degree is a check mark on the app my friend.

RV

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Because as an airline captain, you are the manager of an aircraft and are directly responsible for its operation. A college education will make you a better rounded individual ready to take on those tasks. A 4 year degree also provides a background to get out of aviation for awhile should you be furloughed from an ethical carrier instead of chasing the lowest common denominator to remain in this career because you have no other education in any other area what so ever to fall back on. As to ERAU, I will agree going there today at their astronomical prices to a school that lacks in quality of non-aviation courses is not a good idea even if parents have a slush fund to pay for it. But it's way more respectable than Gulfstream.

Not really convinced....

I say parents do a better job of preparing a pilot to be a Capt.... not a 100,000 school loan....

I don't have a problem with Gulfstream... it is no more an accelerator than college, or 10,000K turboprop jobs in the late 1990's or SWA.... College, Gulfstream, buying a turboprop job, or SWA doesn't lower pay rates and compensation via CBA's.

Look this is America... where the dollar is king and competition is fierce. If someone can get a head start playing the economic American game... then so be it. And when someone uses economic American rules, we chide them for it... seems a double standard.

What about prestige schools like Yale and Harvard. Buy a Harvard degree and you can get any job you want...


The big problem is we chide PFT'ers and management uses that division to conquer us.

We judge all types... women, blacks, black women, foreigners, PFT'ers, LCCers, jB, SWA, etc....

Our fellow pilot is our fellow pilot. If you want to judge a pilot judge them on thier actions AFTER they get the job......

 

[flygirlqt]

How about UND and ERAU? These schools are nothing but overpriced puppy farms!!

All these kids getting Daddy and Mommy to fork out huge amounts of cash so they can make embarrassing 'Top Gun' movies, join demo teams and get a shiney sticker on their resume...

No one needs a degree to fly for an airline... but everyone body does it... so we all have to do it...

If everybody flew for the 'Stream then we'd all have to do it.

If everybody flew Airbus' for 65K we'd all have to do it.

So where does that put the UND/ERAU guys?

REZ...please put down the water bong before making another post like that.

ERAU/UND are a far cry from pseudo scabbing at Gulfstream. What is more though, the numero uno FI Hypocrite runs his mouth a little to loudly considering his background.

 

[azpilot]

Even if you don't agree with the skybus concept how can you cheer for their demise. More unemployed pilots. Shame on you!!!!

Because they are bottom feeding whores. That is why. At some point you have to walk away from the career if you cannot earn a fair wage with reasonable work rules. So shame on me. Skybus Buh Bye go fly rubber dog sh!t out of Hong Kong.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

REZ...please put down the water bong before making another post like that.

ERAU/UND are a far cry from pseudo scabbing at Gulfstream. What is more though, the numero uno FI Hypocrite runs his mouth a little to loudly considering his background.

Why is UND/ERAU not as bad as GA? What do these schools do that an FBO and a degree via community college and a local univeristy can't, except require cash payout... just like GA. But you tell me how you see it...........


So its ok to judge Gulfstreamers cause they went there... but bad to judge your abilities to fly and get jobs based on your gender? got it....

Pot meet kettle...???


He was harsh... and apologized. He also has said GA was a mistake. He was young and dumb... Like all of us.... Have you done anything dumb when you were young? I have... he did... and he has the ability to admit it... Can you?

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Hey Rez let me ask you an honest question. Did you just get hired at UAL from a regional airline??

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Not really convinced....

I say parents do a better job of preparing a pilot to be a Capt.... not a 100,000 school loan....

I don't have a problem with Gulfstream... it is no more an accelerator than college, or 10,000K turboprop jobs in the late 1990's or SWA.... College, Gulfstream, buying a turboprop job, or SWA doesn't lower pay rates and compensation via CBA's.

Look this is America... where the dollar is king and competition is fierce. If someone can get a head start playing the economic American game... then so be it. And when someone uses economic American rules, we chide them for it... seems a double standard.

What about prestige schools like Yale and Harvard. Buy a Harvard degree and you can get any job you want...


The big problem is we chide PFT'ers and management uses that division to conquer us.

We judge all types... women, blacks, black women, foreigners, PFT'ers, LCCers, jB, SWA, etc....

Our fellow pilot is our fellow pilot. If you want to judge a pilot judge them on thier actions AFTER they get the job......

You judge ERAU and UND grads and then come back with asking for an utopia scenario of a judgment-free world. If some bozo offered to fly a 747 for free or pay to fly it for the ultimate in shiny jet syndrome at an airline would you be so understanding? Oh, but I should wait AFTER they get the job to judge in that hypothetical situation. Hardly a black/white issue, more shades of gray and comparing PFT at Southwest with monster wages to PFT at Gulfstream is like comparing a light rain shower cloud to a dark thundercloud. There's a sliding scale of ethics and worse than average equals poor character. That's why I personally never would choose mortgage broker as a backup career.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

And this whole debate is dumb anyways because if I'm not mistaken, all the regionals have been hiring in recent times without the college degree requirement. And who said you had to have a degree anyways from UND or ERAU? I've flown with a handful of pilots with those credentials.

 

[get2flyin]

Why is UND/ERAU not as bad as GA? What do these schools do that an FBO and a degree via community college and a local univeristy can't, except require cash payout... just like GA. But you tell me how you see it...........

Gotta call BS on this one. I spent 4 years at ERAU and spent the same amount of money as what my brother spent to get an Civil Engineering degree from a college on the East Coast. I spent 4 years as a flight instructor, 5 years at Eagle, and have been flying A320s for 4 years. Do you think I cheated my way here?

I wanted to be a pilot, so why should I have gone to some community college to get a degree in basket weaving so I can check the 4 year degree box? ERAU, UND, and similar schools are prestigious and their reputation means something (or at least it used to). Faulting a pilot who attended them is like saying a guy who went to Flight Safety bought his way into a job. Why go to a mom-and-pop FBO if you want to do this as a career?

I got a great aviation education, but nothing taught me more about the art of flying than the 4 years I spent flight instructing. Furthermore, the years I spent flying a turboprop were a hell of a building block to transition to RJs. And that made the Airbus a pretty easy transition.

Granted, I think someone who goes to ERAU now shouldn't think they are entitled to move into the right seat of a CRJ the day they graduate but existing bridge programs are making that more common. I think it's wrong. If that is what you are implying, then I agree.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So you reject Gulfstream but champion ERAU?
I am asking...

Gotta call BS on this one.

Me too...

I spent 4 years at ERAU and spent the same amount of money as what my brother spent to get an Civil Engineering degree from a college on the East Coast. I spent 4 years as a flight instructor, 5 years at Eagle, and have been flying A320s for 4 years. Do you think I cheated my way here?

Nope. But I don't think you needed to spend the money. Your brother had to because that is how you get certified to be an engineer. ERAU doesn't certify you to get licensed. (it can) If it was exclusive then many ERUA students wouldn't go off campus to get thier FAA tickets.

I wanted to be a pilot, so why should I have gone to some community college to get a degree in basket weaving so I can check the 4 year degree box?

Diverse education... for example a teaching degree would enable a school job if furloughed...

Less money. Its your choice.. but ERAU wasn't required. Its a good school.. don't get me wrong.. I've flown with lots of good guys and girls from there...

ERAU, UND, and similar schools are prestigious and their reputation means something (or at least it used to). Faulting a pilot who attended them is like saying a guy who went to Flight Safety bought his way into a job. Why go to a mom-and-pop FBO if you want to do this as a career?

I am sure you don't like be joked for being a riddle rat just as the GA guys don't like the judgement...

In the end on the jet, flying the line... does it matter?

I got a great aviation education, but nothing taught me more about the art of flying than the 4 years I spent flight instructing. Furthermore, the years I spent flying a turboprop were a hell of a building block to transition to RJs. And that made the Airbus a pretty easy transition.

Cool.... the does the turbo prop flying at Gulfstream help guys like it helped you?

Granted, I think someone who goes to ERAU now shouldn't think they are entitled to move into the right seat of a CRJ the day they graduate but existing bridge programs are making that more common. I think it's wrong. If that is what you are implying, then I agree.

I don't think its wrong.. it is supply and demand in our economy. Poor attitudes are wrong. Entitlements are wrong. Judging is wrong.

 

[WalterSobchak]

A college education will make you a better rounded individual ready to take on those tasks.

Funny...the only thing I learned in college involvesd copious amounts of alcohol and hot freshman girls. So, yeah...maybe you're right about pilots needing a "college education".

 

[Lear70]

I wanted to be a pilot, so why should I have gone to some community college to get a degree in basket weaving so I can check the 4 year degree box? ERAU, UND, and similar schools are prestigious and their reputation means something (or at least it used to). Faulting a pilot who attended them is like saying a guy who went to Flight Safety bought his way into a job. Why go to a mom-and-pop FBO if you want to do this as a career?

I got a great aviation education, but nothing taught me more about the art of flying than the 4 years I spent flight instructing. Furthermore, the years I spent flying a turboprop were a hell of a building block to transition to RJs. And that made the Airbus a pretty easy transition.

Non-sequitur, sir.

Paragraph 1: "Why go to a mom-and-pop FBO if you want to do this as a career?"

Paragraph 2: "I got a great aviation education, but nothing taught me more about the art of flying than the 4 years I spent flight instructing..." and so on and so forth.

People go to a mom-and-pop FBO because they CAN and because it doesn't matter.

I went to a mom-and-pop FBO for my ratings, even though I was in the MTSU aviation program. It was cheaper, about $20k for a 4-year degree AND everything through my CFII and MEI.

I got a flight instructing job straight out of college when everyone else had to leave the area. A year later, I was in a King Air. 3 months later, I was in the left seat. 9 months later, I was in a Lear. 9 months after that, I was in the left seat of the Lear. Most of my classmates were still flight instructing at the time. The flight training and where I got it had NOTHING to do with it.

Having a degree from ERAU or UND doesn't mean squat in the real world. It's who you know, how good a stick you are, and how well you interview. Period.

I don't "fault" anyone who went there; think it's COMPLETELY different than GIA where you're basically buying your job, but don't think ERAU or UND graduates are anything special over the guy who got his 4 year degree in education from Northern Illinois Community College.

It's just a piece of paper that shows you have cognitive skills that can be widely applied to other areas of life than aviation. Sometimes helpful to aviation, many times not.

 

[BOYCAPTAIN]

I agree with lear70 on this issue...the one thing that stands out is the "who u know comment'...the one good thing that i got from ERAU(Management degree..did not fly there...wasn't allowed...could not afford Raybans )was contacts...those alumni contacts got me into a lear after graduation and fedex 3 years after graduation...along with being a superpilot..of course!

 

[airbaker]

Gotta call BS on this one. I spent 4 years at ERAU and spent the same amount of money as what my brother spent to get an Civil Engineering degree from a college on the East Coast. I spent 4 years as a flight instructor, 5 years at Eagle, and have been flying A320s for 4 years. Do you think I cheated my way here?

I wanted to be a pilot, so why should I have gone to some community college to get a degree in basket weaving so I can check the 4 year degree box? ERAU, UND, and similar schools are prestigious and their reputation means something (or at least it used to). Faulting a pilot who attended them is like saying a guy who went to Flight Safety bought his way into a job. Why go to a mom-and-pop FBO if you want to do this as a career?

I got a great aviation education, but nothing taught me more about the art of flying than the 4 years I spent flight instructing. Furthermore, the years I spent flying a turboprop were a hell of a building block to transition to RJs. And that made the Airbus a pretty easy transition.

Granted, I think someone who goes to ERAU now shouldn't think they are entitled to move into the right seat of a CRJ the day they graduate but existing bridge programs are making that more common. I think it's wrong. If that is what you are implying, then I agree.

I sincerely respect your career path - you definitely didn't take any shortcuts. With that being said don't take the following comments as personal insult:

What's with the arrogance of some of the Riddle guys? They act as if it was a "most selective" university, requiring 1400+ SAT scores and 3.8+ GPAs. It wasn't at all an academically competitive school; that's one of the biggest reasons I didn't apply. I'm sure it had a great aviation department, but a lot of guys I encounter brag as if they went to Stanford or Harvard.

 

[Pocono Pilot]

I agree with lear70 on this issue...the one thing that stands out is the "who u know comment'...the one good thing that i got from ERAU(Management degree..did not fly there...wasn't allowed...could not afford Raybans )was contacts...those alumni contacts got me into a lear after graduation and fedex 3 years after graduation...along with being a superpilot..of course!

Wow, somebody loves himself.LOL

 

[Pocono Pilot]

What were you making at Gulfstream? How much did you pay for training?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrite

Did you work without medical insurance for the first year at CAL? Didn't Skybus new hires make more than CAL new hires?

Yeah, that's what I thought. LOL


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hypocrite

 

[Caspian27]

Simple:

Captain - $65k/yr
FO - $30k/hr

And what are your AirTran rates compared with everyone else?

It's never cool to see people lose jobs, but I agree that this company was a scourge on industry pay.