SHHHH this was supposed to be a secret!!!!!!!!!

[OzBushWhacker]

Cadet programs

I know that in many cadet programs, i.e Qantas. The cadets have to go out and get 2 yrs industry experience flying right seat of t-prop before they get to line and even then its in the back of 747.

 

[Capi_Cafre']

I know that in many cadet programs, i.e Qantas. The cadets have to go out and get 2 yrs industry experience flying right seat of t-prop before they get to line and even then its in the back of 747.

Here in the Colonies we're increasingly relying on a combination of automation, pure dumb luck & Captains' survival instincts to get our "cadets" up to speed.

 

[Say Again Over]

Its a different type of flying

Please tell me how much you know about the flying over here. By the way, in the program here, they are not allowed to move to the left seat until they are 34 years old, by that time they have about ten years of experience,

 

[enuffalready]

What A Load Of Crap This is...

I can tell you a story of a high time AIRTRAN captain and an airforce FO that almost put a 717 in the trees in raleigh. The captain kept pulling back the auto-throttles on go around and the super superior airforce FO sat on his hands as they somehow barely made it around at tree top level. The entire thing watched by the tower thinking there where going to stall at any second. The captain was fired, the air force FO was kept because of... get his.... this inexperience :laugh: . Had that happened at comair, asa, or express jet you would all be making ipod jokes.

I have jumpseated on many delta flights back to florida and have had more than one time of getting off the plane and thinking WTF...

Point is... there are turds at every airline and unfortunately we promote and hire based on seniority instead of skill.

 

[flyer172r]

In general do your schedulers avoid pairing low-time Capts and F/Os together? I mean beyond the FAA regs?

No. As long as it's legal they'll do what they need to in order to get the flight out.

 

[DiverDriver]

Citing high time pilots making mistakes as proof that there is no argument that low time pilots can cause accidents is not a valid comparison. The reason for the pilot deviation/accident will be different. Lack of knowledge is one reason for errors. Arogance/complacency another.

We MUST still address the low experience problem AND other high time pilot problems. It's a dynamic/complex problem this human factors thing.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The JAA (Europe, which has the toughest standards) is currently reviewing their testing and training program. They are going to make it easier and quicker to get a commerical license, because they have to. They don't have enough pilots, and the shortage is gettting worse.

They also set up an Age 70 committee last year, to study changing the age.

cliff
YIP

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Ah...

I would venture to say judgement and decision-making quality are the best bets for avoiding costly mistakes, all other things being equal. However, as far as a I know, I don't think there are any psychometrically valid tests for predicting that kind of stuff, which is why airlines default to less than reliable predictors such as IQ, personality type, etc.

 

[WSurf]

Point is... there are turds at every airline and unfortunately we promote and hire based on seniority instead of skill.

Very true, however you have to remember these folks passed FAA Checkrides which said they were qualified for that postion.

Bottom line is you can't teach 'Common Sense'. You either have it or you don't.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Experienced at failing, that is...

Captain Rhodes:

Captain Rhodes received a Notice of Disapproval following his FAA checkride for a certified flight instructor (CFI) certificate, airplane multi-engine, in 1995. He received a second Notice of Disapproval following his FAA checkride for that same certificate on September 4, 1995.

Captain Rhodes received a Notice of Disapproval following his FAA checkride for a CFI certificate, instrument airplane, on October 29, 1995.

Captain Rhodes failed his initial BA-4100 first officer oral at Trans States Airlines on September 25, 1998. On that same date, he failed his initial BA-4100 first officer simulator checkride.…..On May 3, 2000, he received a termination letter from the flight manager at Trans States Airlines.

He received a Notice of Disapproval following his FAA checkride for an airline transport certificate (ATP) and BE-1900 type rating on May 16, 2000.

 

[regionaltard]

Experienced at failing that is...

Fortunately the dude had access to Regional Jet Standards Certification Training and a guaranteed interview, otherwise the whole airline pilot thing might not have worked out for him.

 

[trainer8]

Very true, however you have to remember these folks passed FAA Checkrides which said they were qualified for that postion.

Bottom line is you can't teach 'Common Sense'. You either have it or you don't.

You can't teach experience, either. If you look through these regional airline ASAP submissions, the trend is incidents that are caused by inexperience, i.e., aircraft operations (i.e., system/aircraft knowlwdge), runways incursions, altitude deviations, clearence deviations, etc.

The guys I'm training often have never been above 160 KIAS, never above 10,000', never operated a pressurized aircraft, never above 250 KIAS and never in the high flight levels, with an good understanding of high altitude aerodynamics. They learn quickly, but where you really see it is in judgement and experience. They just haven't been exposed to it. And they are upgrading in 2-3 years with the same caliber of new hire in the right seat.

T8

 

[BoilerUP]

You can't teach experience, either. If you look through these regional airline ASAP submissions, the trend is incidents that are caused by inexperience, i.e., aircraft operations (i.e., system/aircraft knowlwdge), runways incursions, altitude deviations, clearence deviations, etc.

I'd guess you see EXACTLY the same kind of ASAP reports from experienced US Airways pilots also...

 

[Amish RakeFight]

I'd guess you see EXACTLY the same kind of ASAP reports from experienced US Airways pilots also...

Yes. They're called mistakes and thats what ASAP is for. We are humans and mistakes happen at every level. The system is designed to detect trends and implent regulatory policy so that common hazards may be reduced or eliminated. It is too simplisitc to say that ASAPs are inordinately filled out by low time regional pilots.

 

[BoilerUP]

Yes. They're called mistakes and thats what ASAP is for. We are humans and mistakes happen at every level. The system is designed to detect trends and implent regulatory policy so that common hazards may be reduced or eliminated. It is too simplisitc to say that ASAPs are inordinately filled out by low time regional pilots.

My point exactly.