Seniority list at the new AA?

[cactusboy53]

I will accept it as well. That is unless it's not fair. Then we need to figure out a way to delay until we can get a do over. Integrity matters

???
So your collective bargaining agent signs on the dotted line that it will comply and comport with Final & Binding arbitration (as it has done in the past).

You are saying that if YOU perceive it's not fair, it's OK to delay & evade the Final & Binding arbitration until you can get a do over??? Were you crossing your fingers??

How exactly does that give you INTEGRITY?

Unbelievable.

 

[MCDU]

Sorry Bub, your opinion does not count. Let it go.

Dave,
why don't you tell everyone how not one single major hired you back in the late 90's. Finally AWA picked you up due to their high attrition back in 2000. Face it Dave, you were never cut out to be a pilot for a major.
You belong to a group of pilots that get lucky.
Congrats

M

 

[ableone]

Dave,
why don't you tell everyone how not one single major hired you back in the late 90's. Finally AWA picked you up due to their the high attrition back in 2000. Face it Dave, you were never cut out to be a pilot for a major.
You belong to a group of pilots that get lucky.
Congrats

M

Classic.

From the pay for training Gulfstream loser who has less than 2500 hours and no prospect for even an interview with a major.

 

[charlie2]

???
So your collective bargaining agent signs on the dotted line that it will comply and comport with Final & Binding arbitration (as it has done in the past).

You are saying that if YOU perceive it's not fair, it's OK to delay & evade the Final & Binding arbitration until you can get a do over??? Were you crossing your fingers??

How exactly does that give you INTEGRITY?

Unbelievable.

Integrity? Why do some of you pussies think that airline pilots should have integrity when so many priests, lawyers/judges, military, politicians, managements, sales people and so many others don't? I learned almost on day one in this "profession" 20 years ago that there is a huge lack of integrity among pilots. I saw my captains (before we had ACARs) call in out times a few minutes early and in times a few minutes late, take a bunch of minis from the liquor cabinet for the night and take a lot of joy in getting some flying from a group that is furloughing...real integrity there! There has never been nor will there ever be "integrity" in this job. It's a dog eat dog world out there and unfortunately I have been wearing Milkbone underwear for the last 20 years! If everyone truly had real integrity I think we wouldn't need unions but because management will cheat us whenever they can, pilots from one airline will do whatever they can to screw other pilots we need a union to help protect us from their lack of integrity. Even Field Marshall Lee shows a lack of it when she has the audacity to say we "chose" the wrong airline. She wont even admit (that would be telling the truth) that with time a great airline can turn into a not so great one and vice-versa. When my buddy was hired at UAL 15 years ago he was told that he would be a 73 Capt in three years. Hey Field Marshall did he choose the wrong airline? His new hire class was told on day one that they won the 6 million dollar lottery (A-plan, B-plan and 401k plus career earnings) but he is still a narrow body FO and was screwed around by his highly honest, full of integrity management for the past decade. Well Field Marshall did he?

 

[MCDU]

Well said. Bravo!!!

M

 

[cactusboy53]

Dave,
why don't you tell everyone how not one single major hired you back in the late 90's. Finally AWA picked you up due to their high attrition back in 2000. Face it Dave, you were never cut out to be a pilot for a major.
You belong to a group of pilots that get lucky.
Congrats

M

Gear up. I'll get the walk around when we get to Providenciales. You look like a soaked rat from your walk around in Philly. Good job, junior.

 

[MCDU]

Dave, that was a classic AWA response.Thanks. Do not dodge the facts that you could not get hired by a single major you interviewed with. Why is that? I bet they saw your true Character and your post again shows your true mind set.

M

 

[charlie2]

Dave, that was a classic AWA response.Thanks. Do not dodge the facts that you could not get hired by a single major you interviewed with. Why is that? I bet they saw your true Character and your post again shows your true mind set.

M

He's supposed to working hard for those pilots he represents but instead is on this forum with posts like that. Maybe he is one of those politician types I mentioned a few posts ago. Dave are you getting FPL right now?

 

[OHGOON]

Nah.......National seniority list? Heck no. If you chose the wrong airline, that is your fault. If you were forced to go to an airline for some reason, then maybe. But, nobody is forced to go anywhere. You choose the wrong one, you lose.

This has got to be the most ignorantly arrogant post of the year so far. "If you chose...",really?? Are you serious?

Last I checked, it was the airlines that chose us! Who you end up with is largely determined by timing and luck and then if you should be so lucky as to have a position at a major you still need even more luck to keep it, not to mention the possibility of having to helplessly watch as greedy stupid managers rape and pillage your job into something you could not have possibly anticipated on the day you were chosen.

I quietly wondered about the posters that accuse you of not even being a pilot. Reading this sure props up their case...

 

[cactusboy53]

He's supposed to working hard for those pilots he represents but instead is on this forum with posts like that. Maybe he is one of those politician types I mentioned a few posts ago. Dave are you getting FPL right now?

I am working hard for all the pilots, Chuck. Sometimes that includes telling those people some things they don't like to hear:

Although USAPA was founded principally to evade the Nicolau (and dump ALPA) and the Constitution & By Laws (and UOM) now state (post Nicolau Award) that DOH is the way seniority is to be determined: I really don't see how that is going to work out legally (IMHO).

As a West Class pilot, I will fight in every fashion possible to make sure the Nicolau is the only list that is included in a JCBA. It was an agreed upon process when we were all ALPA. It is completed and delivered. Changing the name & constitution of a union, and cherry picking the things the majority likes IS NOT FAIR REPRESENTATION. Period.

BTW. I'm a line pilot just like you. I only get FPL when UB takes place during a trip (Big Secret: FLYING is MUCH MORE FUN). I even do UB on my VACATION (next month). I make a whopping $2.00 an hour!! Pretty big cheat, huh? To get $2 an hour and change my vacation plans so that I can dance with McKee, Crimi, Gillies? You have got to be kidding me....Amazing.

 

[cactusboy53]

Just playing your games, Marty. Would you care for some facts? Here you go…..

• FACT: US Airways was in its THIRD bankruptcy in Chapter 11 (facing Chapter 7) in May 2005.

• FACT: According to Bob Mann US Airways was toast.

• FACT: Pilot Colello and everyone South of him had NO chance of returning to US Airways (in the direction that they were going. That would also include my buddies DiOrio, Gillies, Crimi, Ingram, etc.

• FACT: According to investment bankers associated with US Airways bankruptcy, they would NOT have emerged from bankruptcy EVER. Further, without the capital raised by America West Holdings US Airways would most assuredly gone OUT OF BUSINESS.

• FACT: America West Airlines was the FIRST MAJOR airline to fly after 9/11.

• FACT: America West Airlines was the FIRST MAJOR airline to hire off the street after 9/11

• FACT: America West Airlines was the FIRST MAJOR airline to get a post 9/11 contract with contract & wage IMPROVEMENTS (vs. a post bankruptcy dirtbag LOA).

• FACT: As a party to the merger (ALPA being my collective bargaining agent), I agreed to the tenets and conclusion of that process. Was it fair that the #1 AWA pilot was placed @ 518? NO. He should have been #1 (IMO). But we agreed to the process, and the process was followed.

You don’t know spit about what my experience is, who all I have worked for, or who I interviewed with besides America West Airlines.

I did put in an application at US Airways around the time that I applied at America West, but was unaware about the untenable position they were to be in. In fact, I was offered an interview to fly a Dash 8 (Piedmont, as I recall) for my $75 application fee. Pretty chickenstuff if you ask me. I applied to a MAJOR airline, and get offered an interview with the wholly owned commuter (been there, did that, had a blast in the BAe146!)??

You people have cost us all with your DOH land grab. I don’t know how things are going to end up, BUT logic, ethics, morals & common sense tell me that your group will be devastated. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.

Here’s my mindset if you haven’t figured it out: You and those like you that support all of the things that USAPA has done to injure the West pilots are some of the most despicable, vile, contemptible human beings to ever walk the face of the earth. You have managed to cheat all of us out of MILLIONS of dollars in wages, contract benefits and time off that we will NEVER recover. USAPA will go down in the history of organized labor as the most dismal failure on record. All for the sake of cheating a smaller group out of an agreed upon process. You may high-five yourselves each time you get another delay victory, but the end draws nigh.

 

[charlie2]

As a West Class pilot, I will fight in every fashion possible to make sure the Nicolau is the only list that is included in a JCBA. It was an agreed upon process when we were all ALPA. It is completed and delivered. Changing the name & constitution of a union, and cherry picking the things the majority likes IS NOT FAIR REPRESENTATION. Period.

BTW. I'm a line pilot just like you. I only get FPL when UB takes place during a trip (Big Secret: FLYING is MUCH MORE FUN). I even do UB on my VACATION (next month). I make a whopping $2.00 an hour!! Pretty big cheat, huh? To get $2 an hour and change my vacation plans so that I can dance with McKee, Crimi, Gillies? You have got to be kidding me....Amazing.

If I were you guys I would also fight in every fashion possible for the windfall nic but I would also EXPECT the other side to defend in every fashion possible. Sincerely though I was yanking your chain a little with the FPL comment. Sorry you had to change your vacation.

 

[cactusboy53]

If I were you guys I would also fight in every fashion possible for the windfall nic but I would also EXPECT the other side to defend in every fashion possible. Sincerely though I was yanking your chain a little with the FPL comment. Sorry you had to change your vacation.

The Nic is only a windfall (in your opinion) because you didn't get DOH as promised. What I would expect from people of integrity is to fund your own DOH fight (like pension investigation), rather than making all of us pay for it.

I've had a belly full, but I will finish what I said I would do. Should this merger come to fruition, it will finally drive a the last nail in the USAPA coffin. I will be more than pleased to abide by an arbitrators decision in this merger, and I will wipe the USAPA dust off my feet.

Dealing with these guys (lately the PHL election mess) makes me sick to my stomach.

CB

 

[Metrojet]

Just playing your games, Marty. Would you care for some facts? Here you go…..

• FACT: US Airways was in its THIRD bankruptcy in Chapter 11 (facing Chapter 7) in May 2005.

• FACT: According to Bob Mann US Airways was toast.

• FACT: Pilot Colello and everyone South of him had NO chance of returning to US Airways (in the direction that they were going. That would also include my buddies DiOrio, Gillies, Crimi, Ingram, etc.

• FACT: According to investment bankers associated with US Airways bankruptcy, they would NOT have emerged from bankruptcy EVER. Further, without the capital raised by America West Holdings US Airways would most assuredly gone OUT OF BUSINESS.

• FACT: America West Airlines was the FIRST MAJOR airline to fly after 9/11.

• FACT: America West Airlines was the FIRST MAJOR airline to hire off the street after 9/11

• FACT: America West Airlines was the FIRST MAJOR airline to get a post 9/11 contract with contract & wage IMPROVEMENTS (vs. a post bankruptcy dirtbag LOA).

• FACT: As a party to the merger (ALPA being my collective bargaining agent), I agreed to the tenets and conclusion of that process. Was it fair that the #1 AWA pilot was placed @ 518? NO. He should have been #1 (IMO). But we agreed to the process, and the process was followed.

You don’t know spit about what my experience is, who all I have worked for, or who I interviewed with besides America West Airlines.

I did put in an application at US Airways around the time that I applied at America West, but was unaware about the untenable position they were to be in. In fact, I was offered an interview to fly a Dash 8 (Piedmont, as I recall) for my $75 application fee. Pretty chickenstuff if you ask me. I applied to a MAJOR airline, and get offered an interview with the wholly owned commuter (been there, did that, had a blast in the BAe146!)??

You people have cost us all with your DOH land grab. I don’t know how things are going to end up, BUT logic, ethics, morals & common sense tell me that your group will be devastated. I could be wrong, but I don’t think so.

Here’s my mindset if you haven’t figured it out: You and those like you that support all of the things that USAPA has done to injure the West pilots are some of the most despicable, vile, contemptible human beings to ever walk the face of the earth. You have managed to cheat all of us out of MILLIONS of dollars in wages, contract benefits and time off that we will NEVER recover. USAPA will go down in the history of organized labor as the most dismal failure on record. All for the sake of cheating a smaller group out of an agreed upon process. You may high-five yourselves each time you get another delay victory, but the end draws nigh.

Cactus Boy -

Fact one - how was Usairways in 3rd bankruptcy in 2005?

Fact two - that's a lot of FIRST's for AWA - impressive

Fact three - hey you guys just saved two major airlines now ( not including yourselves)! Boy - that is really how the AA guys feel!

Fact four - do you know how many pilots were hired at AA from 1985 - 1988? And do you know that if the SLI uses Nic - how many would be junior to AWA pilots hired 10 years later? And they would be wide body line holders under that SLI

Fact FIVE - what are you smoking if you think APA is going to agree to using a list that puts over 1000 pilots senior wide body captains ( former AWA or US) over current APA pilots.

Fact SIX - although it may not be DOH - there will be major fences around all bases and equipment.

Fact Seven - have sweet dreams if you really believe it is going down any other way that you believe.

Metro jet

 

[Turtle21]

You guys are gonna stroke before there ever is a SLI. P.s. If SLI isn't being negotiated why are you wasting time arguing what it should be?

Go shopping and take a break already!

 

[General Lee]

Dave, that was a classic AWA response.Thanks. Do not dodge the facts that you could not get hired by a single major you interviewed with. Why is that? I bet they saw your true Character and your post again shows your true mind set.

M

But you know M, it's the way it will happen. Classic respone, and the truth. Even the APA acknowledges this. You two will get the NIC award, and then use arbitration again (no fingers crossed this time), and it will look a lot like the other Majors who did it. Reality bites, but it will happen.


Read it again, it was put out by your future MAJORITY, the APA:

"We have seen a model for a successfully arbitrated seniority integration at Delta-Northwest using fences and a ratio methodology based on a percentile seniority list ranking. Also, if an American Airlines-US Airways seniority integration were to be arbitrated, our attorneys have indicated that the ongoing seniority dispute between “West” and “East” at US Airways would be settled as part of the process and should not have any negative impact on an arbitrator’s decision under the McCaskill-Bond statute."



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sean67]

yawn...

 

[General Lee]

yawn...

Exactly. That's what the new arbitrator will be doing when he listens to your Eastie side asking for DOH and disregarding the NIC award. Popcorn ready!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Bringupthebird]

Here’s my mindset if you haven’t figured it out: You and those like you that support all of the things that USAPA has done to injure the West pilots are some of the most despicable, vile, contemptible human beings to ever walk the face of the earth. You have managed to cheat all of us out of MILLIONS of dollars in wages, contract benefits and time off that we will NEVER recover. USAPA will go down in the history of organized labor as the most dismal failure on record. All for the sake of cheating a smaller group out of an agreed upon process. You may high-five yourselves each time you get another delay victory, but the end draws nigh.

Finally, my union speaks for ME!!

 

[cactusboy53]

Cactus Boy -

Fact one - how was Usairways in 3rd bankruptcy in 2005?

Fact two - that's a lot of FIRST's for AWA - impressive

Fact three - hey you guys just saved two major airlines now ( not including yourselves)! Boy - that is really how the AA guys feel!

Fact four - do you know how many pilots were hired at AA from 1985 - 1988? And do you know that if the SLI uses Nic - how many would be junior to AWA pilots hired 10 years later? And they would be wide body line holders under that SLI

Fact FIVE - what are you smoking if you think APA is going to agree to using a list that puts over 1000 pilots senior wide body captains ( former AWA or US) over current APA pilots.

Fact SIX - although it may not be DOH - there will be major fences around all bases and equipment.

Fact Seven - have sweet dreams if you really believe it is going down any other way that you believe.

Metro jet

OK.
You are right. You broke-down dirt bag airline only went into bankruptcy 2 times.

The rest of your "facts" (2-7)appear to be a emotional response to the rest of my post.

Fact 8: I sleep well every night. I have confidence in the court system ultimately. After all, it only took a jury 90 minutes to find USAPA guilty of Duty of Fair Representation.

It's only a matter of short time for USAPA to tread on "dangerous ground".

CB