Seniority list at the new AA?

[SWA/FO]

Glad General has moved off the AT/SWA threads. Good luck guys.

 

[LiveFreeorDie]

I don't envy the arbitrators...what a cluster

 

[charlie2]

Green;

Thanks for the ask. Anyone can view all of these documents at: www.cactuspilot.com

The documents are arranged on the left hand side. No pass words needed.


CB

Hi Dave,

Hey serious question for you and yours. If (please note that I'm using the word "if") we had stayed ALPA and we were now on our fifth or sixth attempt at ratifying a TA with decent pay and benies but it got voted down once again because it contained the nic would you be happier or angrier?

 

[tailwindz]

The bottom line will be that any arbitrator issuing a "Binding" award is not going to ignore a previous "Binding" award on 2/3 of the same matter. That would be insane.

 

[cactusboy53]

Hi Dave,

Hey serious question for you and yours. If (please note that I'm using the word "if") we had stayed ALPA and we were now on our fifth or sixth attempt at ratifying a TA with decent pay and benies but it got voted down once again because it contained the nic would you be happier or angrier?

In my estimation it would have passed the 2nd to 3rd time with the Nicolau, but that is my opinion. It is your opinion that we would failed to ratify attempts 5 & 6 with the Nicolau. We will never know either way as we have traveled down 5+ years of delay.

Moot point.

 

[General Lee]

Is Delta planning another merger?

I don't know, but I guess anything is possible. The Easties deciding that binding arbitration wasn't right for them does affect us all. It shows you can sign up for something while crossing your fingers behind your back. That is a bad precedent that needs to be squashed, and I think it will.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

The bottom line will be that any arbitrator issuing a "Binding" award is not going to ignore a previous "Binding" award on 2/3 of the same matter. That would be insane.

I agree. And Nic is a well respected arbitrator. In fact, the East MEC chair agreed to have him as the arbitrator in the first place.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[A350]

The process is what is flawed.

The Nic award as it stands is no more palatable to the East crews as it would be to the West if the award went DOH without a single restriction or fence, and a returning furloughee could go out to PHX and bump a CA out of his seat. But somehow, an East pilot who had every expectation of being a widebody CA the last 10 years of his career losing that to a pilot group that didn't have a single widebody on property is OK?

DOH is not a land grab. It is the only way to protect what is the only thing you have in the aviation business at your airline....seniority. Conditions, restrictions, and fences are then used to keep one group from disadvantaging another. I don't recall a single condition or restriction in the NIC award other than the age 60 widebody restriction, which went bye-bye with age 65 retirement.

Implementing the NIC award for the East pilots was career suicide.

General....must be nice to pontificate from your high and mighty perch on DAL's list about how special you must be to be a Delta pilot. Give it a rest buddy. Many pilots only get one shot at this career. They take the job they get. Only by the grace of God do you get to the finish line. A little humility please.

A350

 

[General Lee]

The process is what is flawed.

The Nic award as it stands is no more palatable to the East crews as it would be to the West if the award went DOH without a single restriction or fence, and a returning furloughee could go out to PHX and bump a CA out of his seat. But somehow, an East pilot who had every expectation of being a widebody CA the last 10 years of his career losing that to a pilot group that didn't have a single widebody on property is OK?

DOH is not a land grab. It is the only way to protect what is the only thing you have in the aviation business at your airline....seniority. Conditions, restrictions, and fences are then used to keep one group from disadvantaging another. I don't recall a single condition or restriction in the NIC award other than the age 60 widebody restriction, which went bye-bye with age 65 retirement.

Implementing the NIC award for the East pilots was career suicide.

General....must be nice to pontificate from your high and mighty perch on DAL's list about how special you must be to be a Delta pilot. Give it a rest buddy. Many pilots only get one shot at this career. They take the job they get. Only by the grace of God do you get to the finish line. A little humility please.

A350

It simply doesn't matter. If you sign up for it, that means you agree to the outcome. That's why they call it BINDING arbitration. If it is flawed, don't do it. Both sides agreed to Nicolau, and even he supposedly hinted to the Easties that their DOH wishes weren't going to happen and that they might want to be a bit more reasonable, and apparently they weren't. That thinking is what is flawed.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[xrated]

how long for a newhire at Airways today to get to PHX, assuming all these fences and mumbo jumbo? guesses?

I'd guess a decade....and I'm being honest.