Rumor has it that LOA 93 Arbitrator Has Ruled

[PHXFLYR]

NIC is a separate issue from LOA 93, so they are not related. Every single pilot here will get a vote if we ever get to a CBA - in the mean time - the East gets to upgrade all the angry FO's while the West stagnates. Now, with that being said - I agree the rates SUCK, but that is the reality for all US AIRWAYS pilots.

And, personally, I could care less which way you run with the ball - but you better figure out what your going to due when the next merger comes along and the PHX base is spun off to someone separate from the whole. And don't think it cant happen under the current TA, since we haven't merged the pilot groups yet.

Metrojet

" PHX base spun off "...leeme guess ...to republic maybe ? Typical USAPA propoganda . How's life in that parallell universe you living in ?


And regarding all the angry F/O's prancing around in their shiny new captain hats , I hear they're none too happy with a top out rate of 124/hr for group 2 aircraft.

But, hey;no worries. LOA 93 is riding to the rescue as we speak . Should be hear any day now, right ?


PHXFLYR

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Well it kind of sounded that way with the whole " so that your new found flying buddies don't try to steal anything else from me and my fellow west pilots going forward." Anyway moving on then. As for 35, that happened 11 years ago so I kind of have to make do with what I got. You know what they say about the lemons and lemonade although I prefer limes with my tequila.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Well it kind of sounded that way with the whole " so that your new found flying buddies don't try to steal anything else from me and my fellow west pilots going forward." Anyway moving on then. As for 35, that happened 11 years ago so I kind of have to make do with what I got. You know what they say about the lemons and lemonade although I prefer limes with my tequila.

Hey! Like the attitude ...Good for you !! You'll probably land up liviing a lot longer, too. Agreed regarding the tequilas. If you ever make it out to PHX let me know via PM . First one's on me .

PHXFLYR

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Hey! Like the attitude ...Good for you !! You'll probably land up liviing a lot longer, too. Agreed regarding the tequilas. If you ever make it out to PHX let me know via PM . First one's on me .

PHXFLYR

Will do although it might be sooner than you think. There is a open trip on Monday with a long PHX overnight that looks like it has my name on it. Cheers

 

[becket]

Time for you to quit throwing out your chest and spouting off " Hell I don't give a rats a$$, USAPA is not my union " News Flash, Good Bad or otherwise It's the only one you got. Deal with it.

We are dealing with them. The West first demands they follow the Law and uphold their duty to fairly represent them. Not much to ask considering the dues money demanded by the "union". USAPA flatly refuses to respect any modicum of law that requires a West DFR. That's why they have been unable to leave the starting blocks in 3.5 years. They aren't going to move a God Damned millimeter towards a contract, (your much needed pay raise) until they follow the letter of the Law.

You're just pissed because the pay and work rules suck hard. You decided to come here anyway. There is no winning/losing side just a Legal/Illegal side. my suggestion to you and the rest of the 3rd listers is to join up with the PROVEN legal side and demand a reformed union that follows the law. Because until that happens no improvements of any description for you. You're still on the bottom of the list btw and all the new hires are furlough fodder for the West as well. Remember that when the AFO club tells you how much better off and smarter you are than the West.

USAPA either follows the law or twists impotently in the wind. Do you really need anymore proof? I'd say you have 3.5 years of proof. Its probably cost you over 100k btw....and counting daily.

 

[Bringupthebird]

There is no way to set aside the Seniority Integration at work on other things. This unresolved issue speaks directly to the character of the people you want to work with. If they can't be trusted to fix the problem they created by forming USAPA, then everything else is a waste of time.

 

[doh]

The West's hands are tied. They can not work with the East. The risk of doing something that the East will later point to in court as acquiescence is too great. Principled resistance is the West's only option.

 

[cactusboy53]

We are dealing with them. The West first demands they follow the Law and uphold their duty to fairly represent them. Not much to ask considering the dues money demanded by the "union". USAPA flatly refuses to respect any modicum of law that requires a West DFR. That's why they have been unable to leave the starting blocks in 3.5 years. They aren't going to move a God Damned millimeter towards a contract, (your much needed pay raise) until they follow the letter of the Law.

You're just pissed because the pay and work rules suck hard. You decided to come here anyway. There is no winning/losing side just a Legal/Illegal side. my suggestion to you and the rest of the 3rd listers is to join up with the PROVEN legal side and demand a reformed union that follows the law. Because until that happens no improvements of any description for you. You're still on the bottom of the list btw and all the new hires are furlough fodder for the West as well. Remember that when the AFO club tells you how much better off and smarter you are than the West.

USAPA either follows the law or twists impotently in the wind. Do you really need anymore proof? I'd say you have 3.5 years of proof. Its probably cost you over 100k btw....and counting daily.

One of the most concise & factual posts regarding our predicament in a long time. Thanks becket. We (the westies) are merely spectators at this point. USAPA & the company need to make the next move(s).

 

[Metrojet]

The TA allows the west to be spun off, if the pilots are not merged? I guess I didn't read that section. Can you please post it?

Guppiedriver -

1.tentative - under terms not final or fully worked out or agreed upon; "probationary employees"; "a provisional government"; "just a tentative schedule" probationary, provisional, provisionary
conditional - imposing or depending on or containing a condition; "conditional acceptance of the terms"; "lent conditional support"; "the conditional sale will not be complete until the full purchase price is paid"
2.tentative - unsettled in mind or opinion; "drew a few tentative conclusions"
doubtful
unsettled - still in doubt; "an unsettled issue"; "an unsettled state of mind"




Your welcome,
Metrojet

 

[TWA Dude]

Guppiedriver -

1.tentative - under terms not final or fully worked out or agreed upon; "probationary employees"; "a provisional government"; "just a tentative schedule" probationary, provisional, provisionary
conditional - imposing or depending on or containing a condition; "conditional acceptance of the terms"; "lent conditional support"; "the conditional sale will not be complete until the full purchase price is paid"
2.tentative - unsettled in mind or opinion; "drew a few tentative conclusions"
doubtful
unsettled - still in doubt; "an unsettled issue"; "an unsettled state of mind"

Your welcome,
Metrojet

Ooh, this is gonna be fun. Metrojet gets a lesson in reading comprehension:

TA = TRANSITION AGREEMENT

Ain't nuthing tentative about that.

And YOU'RE welcome.

 

[charlie2]

Ooh, this is gonna be fun. Metrojet gets a lesson in reading comprehension:

TA = TRANSITION AGREEMENT

Ain't nuthing tentative about that.

And YOU'RE welcome.

Are you trying to say we're grasping at straws?

 

[TWA Dude]

That's a polite way of putting it.

 

[Metrojet]

That's a polite way of putting it.

TWA Dude -

Ya know - if the truth be told - I wish we could get all this settled as a unified pilot group - instead of playing all these word games . But it is what it is - and as someone already has posted - it is up to the courts to decide.

Metrojet

 

[charlie2]

That's a polite way of putting it.

Maybe we are.

 

[charlie2]

TWA Dude -

Ya know - if the truth be told - I wish we could get all this settled as a unified pilot group - instead of playing all these word games . But it is what it is - and as someone already has posted - it is up to the courts to decide.

Metrojet

Hi buddy.

I think we should settle this with a duel, will you be my second?

 

[TWA Dude]

But it is what it is - and as someone already has posted - it is up to the courts to decide.

Doesn't have to be.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Guppiedriver -

1.tentative - under terms not final or fully worked out or agreed upon; "probationary employees"; "a provisional government"; "just a tentative schedule" probationary, provisional, provisionary
conditional - imposing or depending on or containing a condition; "conditional acceptance of the terms"; "lent conditional support"; "the conditional sale will not be complete until the full purchase price is paid"
2.tentative - unsettled in mind or opinion; "drew a few tentative conclusions"
doubtful
unsettled - still in doubt; "an unsettled issue"; "an unsettled state of mind"




Your welcome,
Metrojet

Why did you copy and paste the Websters Dictionary definition of tentative agreement? I asked you to post up the section of our Transition Agreement that allows the west to be spun off.

 

[charlie2]

Why did you copy and paste the Websters Dictionary definition of tentative agreement? I asked you to post up the section of our Transition Agreement that allows the west to be spun off.

Are you saying because it's not in the TA Parker CAN'T sell a section of the company? I think he can do whatever he thinks is best for his corporation.

 

[Ocity]

Are you saying because it's not in the TA Parker CAN'T sell a section of the company? I think he can do whatever he thinks is best for his corporation.

You guys have been praying for a West sell off for years. Parker has stated over and over that won't be happening. In fact, he emphatically states that CAN'T happen.

Keep dreaming.

 

[charlie2]

You guys have been praying for a West sell off for years. Parker has stated over and over that won't be happening. In fact, he emphatically states that CAN'T happen.

Keep dreaming.

I never believed he would I was just asking about wether or not he could. It would be stupid (but very US Air like) to close down a west coast (well almost coast) hub.

 

[BeCareful!]

Originally Posted by eaglesview
It will be interesting to see if the East gets the raise and USAPA takes the stance that the west should be brought up to their wages how many will bitch about that.



Why would you think the east would put any effort towards that? They chose to ignore the west's right to section 6 negotiations on their contract.

The core of the DFR is that USAPA has chosen to take the west's money, but also chosen to ignore their representational responsibilities to the west.

Why, Bringthebird, I'm surprised at you! The reason, of course, is fair turnabout for the mighty effort you all put in trying to bring the East parity back in 2005....oh.....wait....that's not exactly how it went down.

Nevermind.....

 

[charlie2]

Why, Bringthebird, I'm surprised at you! The reason, of course, is fair turnabout for the mighty effort you all put in trying to bring the East parity back in 2005....oh.....wait....that's not exactly how it went down.

Nevermind.....

They were eyeing the wide body captains seats.

 

[C Festerpuss]

I looks like dat USAPPY elsupremo presidenty Cleary has done gone an fired Lee Seeham.

Go figger

October 3, 2011

Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, LLP 445 Hamilton Avenue, Suite 1204 White Plains, New York 10601
Via email and Certified Mail Return Receipt
Dear Mr. Meltz:

As you no doubt are already aware, the Board of Pilot Representatives has approved a Resolution establishing a process for auditing legal bills including those from your firm. As I indicated in my previous letter, the process is neutral and impartial and will preserve the attorney-client and other privileges with respect to information necessary to complete the audit. The Board has directed all counsel to cooperate with Sarah McShea who has been retained as special counsel for the purpose of the audit and the accounting firm of Holtz, Rubenstein and Reminick who will work under her direction and control. A copy of the resolution is enclosed. I expect that Ms. McShea will be contacting you in the near future. I trust that you will cooperate with her and respond to whatever request she may make as directed by the BPR in the Resolution and, in any event, will do so more promptly than you have not to the requests made in my September 6 letter.

Again, I am compelled to note that there is absolutely no truth to the baseless allegations in your letter that the audit “is motivated by animosity related to personal considerations.” The Resolution I proposed and that the BPR adopted completely undercuts these allegations and I ask that you refrain from continuing to repeat them.



I confirm that your firm does not act as general counsel and that you have no continuing responsibility with respect to either the Merger Committee or the Safety Committee.

I repeat the instructions stated in my September 15 letter. Namely,

​

Please send me a list identifying all matters your firm is handling on behalf of USAPA, including the identity theft investigation. For each matter, please summarize the current status of the matter, the anticipated next steps and an estimate of the cost for those next steps. All bills submitted from this point forward must include the date of the services or expenses incurred, a concise and accurate description of the services including time spent and the person performing the services, and the cost. All expenses must be supported by receipts or other generally accepted contemporaneous written records. All properly submitted and supported bills for services and expenses will be paid in the normal course of business.​

Please confirm that you have received, understand and will comply with these instructions and please promptly supply the information requested about all matters your firm is currently handling on behalf of USAPA.

Very truly yours,


Michael Cleary
President, US Airline Pilots Association

 

[cactusboy53]

I looks like dat USAPPY elsupremo presidenty Cleary has done gone an fired Lee Seeham.

Go figger

October 3, 2011

Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, LLP 445 Hamilton Avenue, Suite 1204 White Plains, New York 10601
Via email and Certified Mail Return Receipt
Dear Mr. Meltz:

As you no doubt are already aware, the Board of Pilot Representatives has approved a Resolution establishing a process for auditing legal bills including those from your firm. As I indicated in my previous letter, the process is neutral and impartial and will preserve the attorney-client and other privileges with respect to information necessary to complete the audit. The Board has directed all counsel to cooperate with Sarah McShea who has been retained as special counsel for the purpose of the audit and the accounting firm of Holtz, Rubenstein and Reminick who will work under her direction and control. A copy of the resolution is enclosed. I expect that Ms. McShea will be contacting you in the near future. I trust that you will cooperate with her and respond to whatever request she may make as directed by the BPR in the Resolution and, in any event, will do so more promptly than you have not to the requests made in my September 6 letter.

Again, I am compelled to note that there is absolutely no truth to the baseless allegations in your letter that the audit “is motivated by animosity related to personal considerations.” The Resolution I proposed and that the BPR adopted completely undercuts these allegations and I ask that you refrain from continuing to repeat them.



I confirm that your firm does not act as general counsel and that you have no continuing responsibility with respect to either the Merger Committee or the Safety Committee.

I repeat the instructions stated in my September 15 letter. Namely,

​

Please send me a list identifying all matters your firm is handling on behalf of USAPA, including the identity theft investigation. For each matter, please summarize the current status of the matter, the anticipated next steps and an estimate of the cost for those next steps. All bills submitted from this point forward must include the date of the services or expenses incurred, a concise and accurate description of the services including time spent and the person performing the services, and the cost. All expenses must be supported by receipts or other generally accepted contemporaneous written records. All properly submitted and supported bills for services and expenses will be paid in the normal course of business.​

Please confirm that you have received, understand and will comply with these instructions and please promptly supply the information requested about all matters your firm is currently handling on behalf of USAPA.

Very truly yours,


Michael Cleary
President, US Airline Pilots Association

Ah what the heck. It's just a piddly $10,000,000+ of "our" dues money out the door. USAPA got nothing but delay & no promised DOH. :smash: (and still has a peck of legal trouble with NO END IN SIGHT, but PLENTY of billable hours!).

 

[Dornier 335]

Word from the DCA chief pilot's office is that the pilots won LOA 93!

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

That'd be great. Then maybe we can get a contract and I could get a raise. Do you think the company will honor the ruling though?

 

[charlie2]

Word from the DCA chief pilot's office is that the pilots won LOA 93!

I'm pretty sure it wont work that way. I think we will here from USAPA that they and management were notified that they will be getting the first draft of the award on a certain date and each side will get it on that date and then they will submit comments for Kasher to make a final award.

 

[Ocity]

I'm pretty sure it wont work that way. I think we will here from USAPA that they and management were notified that they will be getting the first draft of the award on a certain date and each side will get it on that date and then they will submit comments for Kasher to make a final award.

Prediction: LOA 93 loss announced by USAPA. THE VERY NEXT MOVE will now be a full court press pushing the IBT and the "benefits" of joining. USAPA ALWAYS has to have a current, active distraction. Anything to keep the Easties in the dark, demoralized, and not asking questions.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Word from the DCA chief pilot's office is that the pilots won LOA 93!

Names. Points of Contact.


Apology?

 

[St. Nic]

Word from the DCA chief pilot's office is that the pilots won LOA 93!

I heard the same thing from a reliable source in CLT. This thing is going to cook the west when the lid is blown off. have fun Parker, you owe us!