Rumor has it that LOA 93 Arbitrator Has Ruled

[Metrojet]

There's nothing about the NIC list that will be "negotiated ", Chuckles. It is the NIC as is, or LOA 93 for the remainder of your career. Pick the one that suits your fancy. Personally, I could care less which way you run with the ball. All I know is there will be no modification to the NIC award and if you and your boys try, I along with everyone out here will do everything legally possible to thwart your attempts for as long as it takes


PHXFLYR

NIC is a separate issue from LOA 93, so they are not related. Every single pilot here will get a vote if we ever get to a CBA - in the mean time - the East gets to upgrade all the angry FO's while the West stagnates. Now, with that being said - I agree the rates SUCK, but that is the reality for all US AIRWAYS pilots.

And, personally, I could care less which way you run with the ball - but you better figure out what your going to due when the next merger comes along and the PHX base is spun off to someone separate from the whole. And don't think it cant happen under the current TA, since we haven't merged the pilot groups yet.

Metrojet

 

[LaGarbage Man]

The west will never achieve majority status because the easties are brainwashing the third listers. I have a friend that is a third lister and he has shown signs of brainwashing.

If uSAPa ratifies a contract with DOH attached to it, AOL will ask the courts for an injunction. The injunction will stop the contract from being implemented.

Unless you can convince enough easties to accept the Nic and rewrite uSAPa's C&BL's the only way we will ever see a new contract is another merger.

Do not be trying to lump us third list folks in to one camp or another. I think maybe a better way to describe some of us as suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Sounds nicer than a demeaning term like brainwashed. It would be a much better analogy seeing as we are held hostage by the almost daily East/West antics. Truth be told when we chat among ourselves the general consensus is that both sides in this long drawn out abortion of a merger have things they should not be proud of. In the end we third list folks are just average airline pilots (that is not meant as a compliment ) We will vote for what ever is best for our given situation / seniority. If the Eastholes prevail and tie it to a living wage contract then yep you bet your a$$ I am voting for it. Same thing goes if the Westicles prevails. We know we will be junior to the whole dam lot of you and yet we seem to be the only ones who understand that soon enough we will start to inherit this whole screwed up airline. Hell that is what we were counting on when we came here.Surely you don't think it was for the money and work rules do you. Sorry for the rant but I refuse to let either side try to claim third list is in any one particular camp or another. We have enough problems just trying to survive on these crap wages. The last thing I need is a misguided portion of the East/West guys giving us problems. I can not stop you guys from continuing to indulge in FECES FEST 2011 but I dam sure am not going to let you point your crap cannons at us. Rant off, back to your regularly scheduled East vrs. West thread.

 

[charlie2]

Do not be trying to lump us third list folks in to one camp or another. I think maybe a better way to describe some of us as suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Sounds nicer than a demeaning term like brainwashed. It would be a much better analogy seeing as we are held hostage by the almost daily East/West antics. Truth be told when we chat among ourselves the general consensus is that both sides in this long drawn out abortion of a merger have things they should not be proud of. In the end we third list folks are just average airline pilots (that is not meant as a compliment ) We will vote for what ever is best for our given situation / seniority. If the Eastholes prevail and tie it to a living wage contract then yep you bet your a$$ I am voting for it. Same thing goes if the Westicles prevails. We know we will be junior to the whole dam lot of you and yet we seem to be the only ones who understand that soon enough we will start to inherit this whole screwed up airline. Hell that is what we were counting on when we came here.Surely you don't think it was for the money and work rules do you. Sorry for the rant but I refuse to let either side try to claim third list is in any one particular camp or another. We have enough problems just trying to survive on these crap wages. The last thing I need is a misguided portion of the East/West guys giving us problems. I can not stop you guys from continuing to indulge in FECES FEST 2011 but I dam sure am not going to let you point your crap cannons at us. Rant off, back to your regularly scheduled East vrs. West thread.

You will do well here no matter what happens because of the geezers.

 

[becket]

NIC is a separate issue from LOA 93, so they are not related.

Metrojet

5 years on and you people STILL don't get what's happening. Unbelievable.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Do not be trying to lump us third list folks in to one camp or another. I think maybe a better way to describe some of us as suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Sounds nicer than a demeaning term like brainwashed. It would be a much better analogy seeing as we are held hostage by the almost daily East/West antics. Truth be told when we chat among ourselves the general consensus is that both sides in this long drawn out abortion of a merger have things they should not be proud of. In the end we third list folks are just average airline pilots (that is not meant as a compliment ) We will vote for what ever is best for our given situation / seniority. If the Eastholes prevail and tie it to a living wage contract then yep you bet your a$$ I am voting for it. Same thing goes if the Westicles prevails. We know we will be junior to the whole dam lot of you and yet we seem to be the only ones who understand that soon enough we will start to inherit this whole screwed up airline. Hell that is what we were counting on when we came here.Surely you don't think it was for the money and work rules do you. Sorry for the rant but I refuse to let either side try to claim third list is in any one particular camp or another. We have enough problems just trying to survive on these crap wages. The last thing I need is a misguided portion of the East/West guys giving us problems. I can not stop you guys from continuing to indulge in FECES FEST 2011 but I dam sure am not going to let you point your crap cannons at us. Rant off, back to your regularly scheduled East vrs. West thread.

Fair enough. Just so you know, I told my buddy that he was suffering from Stockholm Syndrome the last time we talked. He later told his wife what I said and she agreed with me.

 

[Guppiedriver]

And, personally, I could care less which way you run with the ball - but you better figure out what your going to due when the next merger comes along and the PHX base is spun off to someone separate from the whole. And don't think it cant happen under the current TA, since we haven't merged the pilot groups yet.

Metrojet

The TA allows the west to be spun off, if the pilots are not merged? I guess I didn't read that section. Can you please post it?

 

[LaGarbage Man]

You will do well here no matter what happens because of the geezers.

Yeah I know. US Air has one of the oldest average age pilot groups in the industry. This was one of the primary drivers for many of us coming here. Age 65 passing right after we hired on gave us a little vacation that I could have done without but now we are back and ready to get this show on the road. Unfortunately most of us greatly underestimated the ability of this pilot group to work something out. By something I do not just mean the Nic award. Many of us grow tired of the constant fighting about any and all things. Hell the East vrs. West crap gets old but I can at least understand the motivating forces acting on both sides. Now the fighting with the Company would seem like an appropriate place to channel some energies but on that front I feel that team Tempe seems to be one step ahead of us. Hell now the East is fighting with the East. When is it going to stop ? In my opinion every union has three types of personalities. 1) The Company yes men - These are the types who fancy themselves Management material and they just do the flying thing for kicks. Fortunately this is the smallest group in the union. 2) The average Joe line pilot - This makes up the majority of the union. Many sub categories in this group with differing levels of involvement but still all pulling in the same general direction for the greater good. And last but not least.
3) The Pit Bulls - This group wants to STFD if a Chief Pilot looks at them cross eyed. Do not get me wrong, Sometimes the Pit Bulls are a necessary element to union goals. There comes a time in all negotiations where you just need to let them off their chain and let them rip sh#t up. As I see it though, Right now the Pit Bulls are in charge hear at US Airways. They just want to fight about any and all things. I mean it never stops. One court case after another after another. Hell now we need to hire another law group in addition to the first and now the legal bills are getting so big we need to bring in auditors. When and where does it stop? In my opinion it may be time for the East and West pilot groups start to put forward some people who can find a way to work together towards fixing this train wreck. We need people who can agree to disagree on the Nic yet still be in the same room working on the many many other items that need to be fixed. That means you East guys need to work respectively and professionally with the elected West reps. No more games.
As for you guys on the West. Time for you to quit throwing out your chest and spouting off " Hell I don't give a rats a$$, USAPA is not my union " News Flash, Good Bad or otherwise It's the only one you got. Deal with it. I agree with some of the earlier post about some of your dues being set aside in trust. That is a good idea. Nobody should have to pay for their own prosecution. But you guys need to get some more people over here and start taking some ownership of the union as well if you want this stuff to go farther than freaking FI. Baby steps are needed here ladies and gentlemen. You each have done your worst on many items and now it is in the hands of the court. You guys started that process and now it must run it's course. Fine, but there is still this little annoying matter of ALL THE OTHER CRAP that is going on with OUR airline and industry !! Ooopps there I go again, must be time for my medication. Insert the sound of me climbing down from my soap box and going to look for my bottle of Baluarte Reposado.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Face it . You picked the wrong airline to hitch your wagon to. This epic pissin' contest has been going on since the late 80's when USAir merged with Piedmont and given the events of the last 5 years it shows no signs of abating any time soon. If I where a 3rd lister under the age of 35, I would wait for retirements to start again in a few years, re acess the playing field with regard to who is hiring and who isn't, and consider my options going forward. Good luck.

PHXFLYR

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Face it . You picked the wrong airline to hitch your wagon to. This epic pissin' contest has been going on since the late 80's when USAir merged with Piedmont and given the events of the last 5 years it shows no signs of abating any time soon. If I where a 3rd lister under the age of 35, I would wait for retirements to start again in a few years, re acess the playing field with regard to who is hiring and who isn't, and consider my options going forward. Good luck.

PHXFLYR

Well then next time around maybe you will let me borrow your crystal ball because obviously mine has some cracks in it. You can call me in 20 years and I will let you know if I chose the wrong airline or not. In the mean time why don't we get on with the business of making this s##t hole a better place to work. Or would you rather keep it status quo so we can come here to FI and engage in this productive and lively banter ? That is one thing this group is real good at. Living in the past.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I do sometimes wish that you guys could have somehow forced the nic on us when it first came out. Last year I would have been recalled after a 9 year furlough to better pay and bennies instead of working the last four for crap, but we are stuck in this legal quagmire (giggity) and I don't think we will see an end for a decade because of the lawsuits and the expected appeals. I really hope we can get a contract in a couple years and at least work with better rates etc.. while the appeals are all going on.

Not going to happen. The only thing that works out west going forward is status quo and letting the whole sordid affair work its way through the courts,appeal process and all And quite honestly; that's fine by me. Given the events we've gone thru with the east pilots since the merger between AWA and US was first annouinced in 2005, many of us out here no longer trust your side to do the right thing going forward . Sorry if that means your salary is less than what you had hoped for, but I guess you can thank your co-workers you fly with for that. Glad to see you back from furlough, though.

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Well then next time around maybe you will let me borrow your crystal ball because obviously mine has some cracks in it. You can call me in 20 years and I will let you know if I chose the wrong airline or not. In the mean time why don't we get on with the business of making this s##t hole a better place to work. Or would you rather keep it status quo so we can come here to FI and engage in this productive and lively banter ? That is one thing this group is real good at. Living in the past.

Sorry , but I'd much rather keep it status quo and let the issues that stand between east and west pilots get resolved through the courts so that your new found flying buddies don't try to steal anything else from me and my fellow west pilots going forward. And while I agree that FI banter can be described as lively from time to time , I think calling it useful would be a stretch, don't you think ?

PHXFLYR

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Not going to happen. The only thing that works out west going forward is status quo and letting the whole sordid affair work its way through the courts,appeal process and all And quite honestly; that's fine by me. Given the events we've gone thru with the east pilots since the merger between AWA and US was first annouinced in 2005, many of us out here no longer trust your side to do the right thing going forward . Sorry if that means your salary is less than what you had hoped for, but I guess you can thank your co-workers you fly with for that. Glad to see you back from furlough, though.

PHXFLYR

Never mind I got my answer.

 

[LaGarbage Man]

Sorry , but I'd much rather keep it status quo and let the issues that stand between east and west pilots get resolved through the courts so that your new found flying buddies don't try to steal anything else from me and my fellow west pilots going forward.

PHXFLYR

Man I am starting to see a trend from some of you West boys. How many times are you going to try and lump us third list folks in with one camp or another. If you will re read my post I am advocating some of us getting on with the other business at hand. I am not in the East camp or the West camp. Truth be told the fact that you all insist on two camps for ALL things is what pisses me off the most. Just goes to show that there are Pit Bulls on both sides of the Mississippi. Somebody needs to call Animal Control soon.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Man I am starting to see a trend from some of you West boys. How many times are you going to try and lump us third list folks in with one camp or another. If you will re read my post I am advocating some of us getting on with the other business at hand. I am not in the East camp or the West camp. Truth be told the fact that you all insist on two camps for ALL things is what pisses me off the most. Just goes to show that there are Pit Bulls on both sides of the Mississippi. Somebody needs to call Animal Control soon.

I am not trying to lump you into one camp or the other at all. I'm just trying to let you and others like you know what you are facing going forward .

What you chose to do with this information is up to you and of no consequence to me. But I do know what i would do if I were a 3rd lister younger than 35 once retirements start again in a few years.


PHXFLYR

 

[reepicheep]

Yeah unfortunately there are two camps. The east is wrong and the west is right. The east can continue their desperate quest for a do-over, or they can simply honor their agreements. Problem solved.