Rip nji

[jppt2000]

JPPT2000 can't accept the fact that NJA isn't the darling of aviation anymore..It was a good 3 year run, but it's over..NJA is just like every other company again. with the same issues as every one else.

We can see it. He can't.

Okkeee Dokeee
The unofficial voice(s) that was(were) never elected to represent or speak for anyone at Netjets but himself, has posted!
Looking forward to more of your anonymous, commentary on the union 411.

 

[jppt2000]

What data are you referring too? What claims... I claimed you sounded like a whiney bitch about the LOA integration and how some junior G guys get to keep their seat.

And me and about 400 others complain about how the direction of the company is up in the air....For example... I've been given a 2013 recall date.......BUT.....fleet plan doesn't add up... If that's trying to have insider info then I guess we're guilty.... You explain how a fleet plan at the 5 year mark has us estimated to have 20-40 less a/c ( the exact number escapes me at the moment) in 2014, but even the junior furloughees have a recall expectation date before that...If you can explain all the company/union rhetoric and keep it civil without telling us we're too junior to understand, then have at it. Give us your insider info..


I've never attacked anyone (except Walmer).... I try to hear their side of the story or their thoughts... Until someone like you thinks they're always right... Case in point.. I flew with Pervis once, nice enough guy..But the first thing he does is start talking politics, and how anyone who votes for Obama is a retard.. I hadn't made up my mind yet, but it still rubbed me the wrong way.. Because even if I had voted for Obama, how the hell does he know if I have a mental disability or not.. No offense Pervis, but the trip was hell listening to your political views for 6 days, I couldn't find a TV far enough away.... It's one of the 3 well known rules..No politics, religion, or touching of the thighs

You've still got me confused as hell about where your getting this insider info complaint towards me.. I'm so far away from CMH I might as well be in Iraq..... I've got a great gig now, and today just saw my first QS tail. It was a buttomed up Falcon on another ramp.. So where do you see me as having insider info. Hell I only know a few active NJA pilots and haven't talked to them in months.

I'm sure it was fun flying with you too.
I remember rants much like the ones you post on the union messageboard.
I remember the admonishing that poster got for posting the same unsubstantiated too.

I'm embarrassed at myself for engaging you on this board.
Rant away

 

[rajflyboy]

Have you ever looked in a mirrror and said..I'm a puss?

You refusre to state facts, all you can say is "NetJets hater" or something to that affect.

I'm sorry for making this type of statement, but you desrve this.

"Have you ever change your own underwear?"

You only attack..you never state a position.

Get a set and grow up you sorry excuse of a human being.

Thanks for backing me up. This jppt2000 person must not fly the line at NJA. He has no clue what is going on right now and how people feel out on the line. Its disgusting that we have people like this running around trying to put their own agenda's against the good of the entire pilot group. JPPT its time that you go out and ask people what they think?

jppt needs to post some dam facts to back his case up. I do have the facts right. 41 percent of us did not vote.

 

[rajflyboy]

Okkeee Dokeee
The unofficial voice(s) that was(were) never elected to represent or speak for anyone at Netjets but himself, has posted!
Looking forward to more of your anonymous, commentary on the union 411.

I would hardly say that getting elected with 850 some votes is a mandate. Thats only approximately 1/3 rd of the total votes available. Lets do the math. This means that 2/3rds of the pilots do not approve.

Do you care to argue these FACTS ?

 

[jppt2000]

I would hardly say that getting elected with 850 some votes is a mandate. Thats only approximately 1/3 rd of the total votes available. Lets do the math. This means that 2/3rds of the pilots do not approve.

Do you care to argue these FACTS ?

What I've been trying to explain to you and your cohort CRJ, is that you cannot make that kind of conclusion.
You are incorrect making that conclusion based on those numbers.
What is embarrassing is that you proclaim you conclusions as "the truth".
I can only assume you have ulterior motives, rather than discussing the situation of NJI and NJA.

 

[jppt2000]

Have you ever looked in a mirrror and said..I'm a puss?

You refusre to state facts, all you can say is "NetJets hater" or something to that affect.

I'm sorry for making this type of statement, but you desrve this.

"Have you ever change your own underwear?"

You only attack..you never state a position.

Get a set and grow up you sorry excuse of a human being.

If someone claims they have the facts, and then makes statements based on a flawed conclusion, what do you call it?
What I have been posting is "don't drag everyone else in with your flawed conclusions".
Thanks for the name calling, reread my posts.

 

[jppt2000]

Thanks for backing me up. This jppt2000 person must not fly the line at NJA. He has no clue what is going on right now and how people feel out on the line. Its disgusting that we have people like this running around trying to put their own agenda's against the good of the entire pilot group. JPPT its time that you go out and ask people what they think?

jppt needs to post some dam facts to back his case up. I do have the facts right. 41 percent of us did not vote.

That is true, but it is not accurate.

And this is where we completely disagree, you cannot make the conclusion that 41 per cent were against.

I will believe it when the union states that.
IMO, you have an axe to grind, please do it without dragging the rest of your colleagues on the Beechjet into your flawed conclusions.

Why not let the elected, professional NJI/NJA subject matter experts do their jobs, stop trying to create divisiveness within our pilot group.

.
BTW, based on your seniority, you have quite a long time (probably decades) to hold a Gulfstream bid.

Yes, I have an agenda, challenging stalker-wierdo-Netjetshaters on their emptyheaded baseless conclusions.imp:

 

[jppt2000]

Not sure what you mean by phony, NJA screwed us, not for lack of effort, but the leaders dropped the ball.. And yes even I could see that home prices simply cannot see %30+ yearly gains for eternity...Like I said, I've been furloughed before, do I wish NJASAP didn't cut us off at 1159 on the 15th..Of course..It was a direct kick in the nuts.. Hell we had Crewops access for atleast a few extra days. So yes, we feel like we got rubbed the wrong way a bit. Live with it, we're ticked off still and there's nothing yourself or any others can do about it. We'll come back (maybe) still a bit ticked, won't work quite as hard, and won't go the extra mile. Tough luck if that doesn't jive with your plans.

As far as embarassed, I'm not.. As there are guys like you who think nothing is wrong, there are plenty of guys like me who feel the ship is neither being righted nor sinking. We're just looking at it from an outsiders view, and see some issues with the current direction. Sorry it doesn't jive with your insider, "I'm senior so I know all mentality ".


Dude you are completely confused.... I have never claimed to have any insider info about anything.....I stated that some of you more senior guys are completely one sided when it comes to NJA. (there is no insider info, it's simply an observation from posts here. Everytime someone posts something negative about NJA/Union, you and some others simply refute it like it's fact.

And for some reason you "think" I somehow want to run for election so I can change some LOA??? I could care less about changing anything, all I asked was everyone on property quit bitching about "not being able to bump a NJI guy off his seat or out of his Captain position. It comes across as being a whiney bitch. Things could be worse than not getting to fly the G Unit.

Either you have me confused with someone else here, or you have a one track mind and only read what you want, and see things one way.

To make HUGE jumps in logic and conclusions that you passionately claim are "true", and representative of the whole group-majority, most likely has to be based on more information that the rest of us don't have.
Personal conclusions (opinions), which I really have no problem with
(I actually support) after all this is FI, of course.
The disagreement I have with you and the opinion or view that I have is,
its simply your opinion, not the pilot group's.
Don't drag, or misrepresent other pilots opinions into your desperate attempts to appear to have a valid voice for the group.

 

[rajflyboy]

jppt

You are showing that you are not that bright. We have 400xp pilots that are in the 300's in seniority. Its actually a somewhat senior airplane. Again you are proving that you do not have the facts right.

Start posting facts instead of personal attacks. I know that is awful hard for you to do.

 

[rajflyboy]

That is true, but it is not accurate.

And this is where we completely disagree, you cannot make the conclusion that 41 per cent were against.

I will believe it when the union states that.
IMO, you have an axe to grind, please do it without dragging the rest of your colleagues on the Beechjet into your flawed conclusions.

Why not let the elected, professional NJI/NJA subject matter experts do their jobs, stop trying to create divisiveness within our pilot group.

.
BTW, based on your seniority, you have quite a long time (probably decades) to hold a Gulfstream bid.

Yes, I have an agenda, challenging stalker-wierdo-Netjetshaters on their emptyheaded baseless conclusions.imp:

State your facts Mr Factmaster? After all you can't post anything that isn't factual according to you.

I want to see all these facts that you have!


Until you get the facts straight I'm done arguing with you. You aren't worth my time. No one even comes on here to support you.

 

[CRJFlyer]

To make HUGE jumps in logic and conclusions that you passionately claim are "true", and representative of the whole group-majority, most likely has to be based on more information that the rest of us don't have.
Personal conclusions (opinions), which I really have no problem with
(I actually support) after all this is FI, of course.
The disagreement I have with you and the opinion or view that I have is,
its simply your opinion, not the pilot group's.
Don't drag, or misrepresent other pilots opinions into your desperate attempts to appear to have a valid voice for the group.

It's fairly obvious you haven't been/or viewed the njpilots.org website, or signed up for the furloughed NJ pilots facebook site (not that you can anyways), or spoken with too many furloughed guys.

I still don't understand where you are coming from with "speaking for the majority"..Are you saying the majority of furloughed guys aren't ticked off? Or don't feel a bit shafted from NJA. Or weren't ticked off about the NJASAP boot?

My only opinion when it concerns the merger is that people sound a bit whiney.. Unless you have me confused with another CRJ poster?? I haven't claimed to have any insider info or otherwise..

So again I still don't know where in left field your getting the idea that I have posted info about what the pilot group wants....I never have. I've never said "so and so wants this, or the pilot group is feeling this way. " Other than the obvious, which I could go to either of our msg boards and prove very easily..

-Guys are ticked....Do you refute that?

-Many, and remember I said many not all, feel shafted about the union board access.And the lame excuse about it being unlawful...Do you refute that?

-Sokol is a numbers guy, who doesn't appear to care about customer service as amuch as RTS.. do you refute that?

-Many of us do not see how the 5 year fleet plan jives with the expected recall dates... You can't refute that because you don't have an expected recall date....your not furloughed!!

-Many of us don't think DS is the mesiah simply because he cut costs and saved a few bucks..Any manager in business could have seen the waste and done the same thing...

-Many of us feel that a bit more could have been done to aid in job searched by the union or even the company....
1)NJME/EJM....theres is absolutely no reason we couldn't have been given pref. interviews at either company(instead we received a subscription to climbto350.com)... Do you refute that?

-Many of us feel that NJA is becoming less customer serviced based and more dollars concerned... Which will reduce our product quality, and since we're more expensive than the competitor...Hopefully you can see more than a foot in front of you nose and see what will eventually happen...

-The unions attempt at aiding through the UI process was a disaster. The unions help actually made it worse. I completely did it on my own and got through it the first time... again you can't refute that because you didn't receive that MASS JOB LOSS number..

The only things you've posted about is how we're wrong and have supported it with no thoughts of your own. Just attacks or coments labeling us NJ haters, disgruntled.. Calling us ex-FO's etc...

If you can honestly say that any of the above isn't how many feel. I'll consider saying your the king of NJA. I'll even go as far as saying, "I love Crepes"

 

[jppt2000]

jppt

You are showing that you are not that bright. We have 400xp pilots that are in the 300's in seniority. Its actually a somewhat senior airplane. Again you are proving that you do not have the facts right.

Start posting facts instead of personal attacks. I know that is awful hard for you to do.

Really?
this is getting creepy, nothing against the mighty Beechjet, but the latest seniority list I see, puts 3 folks in the three hundreds, and I've met them, none of them exhibit your stalker-wierdo behavior.

it'll be a long time before either of us get to the G whiz.
BTW, how was that an attack?

 

[jppt2000]

State your facts Mr Factmaster? After all you can't post anything that isn't factual according to you.

I want to see all these facts that you have!


Until you get the facts straight I'm done arguing with you. You aren't worth my time. No one even comes on here to support you.

Wouldn't you rather say 9 out of the 10 pilots I've surveyed..........
Or, the overwhelming majority of pilots, (BTW the true majority) I fly with....

 

[jppt2000]

It's fairly obvious you haven't been/or viewed the njpilots.org website, or signed up for the furloughed NJ pilots facebook site (not that you can anyways), or spoken with too many furloughed guys.

I still don't understand where you are coming from with "speaking for the majority"..Are you saying the majority of furloughed guys aren't ticked off? Or don't feel a bit shafted from NJA. Or weren't ticked off about the NJASAP boot?
Reread my posts, I never said the majority of guys/gals aren't ticked off.
I've corresponded with well over a 100, how about you?

My only opinion when it concerns the merger is that people sound a bit whiney.. Unless you have me confused with another CRJ poster?? I haven't claimed to have any insider info or otherwise..
Reread my post to RAJ

So again I still don't know where in left field your getting the idea that I have posted info about what the pilot group wants....I never have. I've never said "so and so wants this, or the pilot group is feeling this way. " Other than the obvious, which I could go to either of our msg boards and prove very easily..
Wow, so you still have messageboard access, good for you.


-Guys are ticked....Do you refute that?
Absolutely not, but why take your anger to the anonymous messageboards, wouldn't you feel better discussing your anger with them at the furloughed pilots website?

-Many, and remember I said many not all, feel shafted about the union board access.And the lame excuse about it being unlawful...Do you refute that? Are you a union labor lawyer?, If not, what did your professional counselor tell you?

-Sokol is a numbers guy, who doesn't appear to care about customer service as amuch as RTS.. do you refute that?
Sure he's a numbers guy, the company lost $700+ million too, what did you expect him to do?
Do I agree with what he's doing? I don't have all the right info. to tell you, Do I like what he's doing? No, but change is difficult.

-Many of us do not see how the 5 year fleet plan jives with the expected recall dates... You can't refute that because you don't have an expected recall date....your not furloughed!!
?????????

-Many of us don't think DS is the mesiah simply because he cut costs and saved a few bucks..Any manager in business could have seen the waste and done the same thing...And I'd bet you'd have the same opinion of him too. Anyone with sour grapes could get on this messageboard and slam anyone for making changes too.

-Many of us feel that a bit more could have been done to aid in job searched by the union or even the company....
1)NJME/EJM....theres is absolutely no reason we couldn't have been given pref. interviews at either company(instead we received a subscription to climbto350.com)... Do you refute that?
From what I've read from the union representatives' posts, I'm paraphrasing, One can't just walk in and kick over a few desks and tell the company how to run their business, especially management. If you believe that, you've watched too many hollywood movies.

-Many of us feel that NJA is becoming less customer serviced based and more dollars concerned... Which will reduce our product quality, and since we're more expensive than the competitor...Hopefully you can see more than a foot in front of you nose and see what will eventually happen...
I personally haven't seen much of a change for the worse.

-The unions attempt at aiding through the UI process was a disaster. The unions help actually made it worse. I completely did it on my own and got through it the first time... again you can't refute that because you didn't receive that MASS JOB LOSS number..
What makes you think I haven't been been laid off in a prior job, and lost EVERYTHING? UI from state to state is very tedious and nebulous, you expect immediate gratification-perfection from the union?

The only things you've posted about is how we're wrong and have supported it with no thoughts of your own. Just attacks or coments labeling us NJ haters, disgruntled.. Calling us ex-FO's etc...
And your insults?
BTW, I've said you cannot make valid conclusions from the facts you and I have. I do think your sour grapes, crusades taint your opinion.

If you can honestly say that any of the above isn't how many feel. I'll consider saying your the king of NJA. I'll even go as far as saying, "I love Crepes"
Absolutely, many people feel that way, I don't have the faith I used to have in this company.

Sorry for your troubles, but I don't agree with what I see as your crusade against NJA and its management.

 

[CRJFlyer]

Sorry for your troubles, but I don't agree with what I see as your crusade against NJA and its management.

--Since I'm on a few msg. boards and have been in the same job hunting boat as the other 400+...I'de say I've corresponded with well over 100.

-- We have limited "furlough only" msg board access as far as NJASAP goes. And the other un-official board. My statement is regarding the fact that if you needed proof that guys are questioning the direction of the company, I can easily direct you to said proof. Basically I'm not the only one who feels this way.

--trust me, anger has been taken out on on the other msg. boards as well. And those aren't anonymous.. I called out PW immediately on his BS thinking about extended days etc...If your implying that I'm too afraid to discuss these topics on other boards, you'd be wrong.... Except on the other boards there's a large majority who feel, think, and respond the same way. Unfortunately not too many active guys post there so it's pretty much a vent session, without alot of debate.

--the labor law msg. board access is/was a complete cop-out...I don't care how you all try to sugar coat it. It will never be deemed as a positive by us.

--exactly my point, DS is/was no smarter than any other business man. Yet he'll get all the credit..... I never said his cuts weren't necessary, I said he's not this great white hope. He did what any one of us could have figured out.. IE: 3 HQ's, overstaffing, wasted ferry flights, poor management decisions. Too many VP's.... Not saying I didn't agree with his cuts, but he's no business god. Right place at the right time....

--I was aided better in my last furlough from a ********************ty 15 plane company 10 years ago, than I was aided by the "leader" in aviation.. Yes I do believe NJASAP could have put together some sort of job fair...Bad economy and all. Unfortunately it would seem that the arrogance of NJA pissed off too many corporations/flight departments.... And before you say "sour grapes" I found a job a short time later through my own hard work and diligence... So I'm not bitter for my own sake, but there's still alot of guys struggling.

--Never said you weren't laid off.. Hell if ya hadn't been laid off you'd be one of the few in aviation. But that's not the point.... For all intensive purposes, NJASAP confused more people than they helped initially. You wouldn't know it because you weren't fed bad info from union guys the first time around... Many guys mis-filed purely because of what they were told by the union... I decided to just research it myself and make my own phone calls rather than listen to the answers we were given by NJASAP.

--and don't get me started about resigning seniority..If ya didn't know......there have been a few guys who "resigned" so they could accept another job... Thinking, because of what NJASAP told them, they were still ok to return to NJA...Guess who's no longer on the seniority list..I really hope they found quality employment...Again another thing you wouldn't know because you haven't been put in that position.

It's not a crusade against NJA totally.. But whenever someone posts something negative concerning NJA...You and a few others get all worked up and tell the writer they're an idiot, don't know what they're tralking about etc.... It insults the intelligence of those who may actually have the pulse of either:

1) the economy

2) the business model

3) owners thoughts (NJAowner seems to have had less positive experiences lately?)

4)Customer Service driven companies..on a related note, and although it's a small thing.. How many NJA sponsored events has NJA ended? Poker tourney type things, free gifts to owners....You may not agree, but I happen to think that when you take these away, it's worse than never having them at all. It's like the saying "I'd rather have never been rich than to have been rich and lost it all"...

We will most likely never agree in the first place. I understand how you would feel since NJA really hasn't done you too wrong... But I would be willing to bet the house that if your number had or ever did come up, you'd be saying the same things..... Heck, look how many people bitch about the quality of the crew meals.. Now suppose they decided to end the crew meal program or figured out a way to end the 401k match.. How pissed would you be? Now multiply that by 100 and have no real expectation of employment..That's basically where alot of guys still sit right now. And UI may not go much longer either...

 

[jppt2000]

Heck, look how many people bitch about the quality of the crew meals.. Now suppose they decided to end the crew meal program or figured out a way to end the 401k match.. How pissed would you be? Now multiply that by 100 and have no real expectation of employment..That's basically where alot of guys still sit right now. And UI may not go much longer either...

It's easy to see posts on our union messageboard from a very vocal few people and come to a conclusion about that.
The union leadership has facts and figures that guide them to make decisions for all of us.

We could have gotten someone in management with less skills to run the company.
In this world of inept, greedy managers we could have someone with much more selfish motives.
How hard would that of been?
We all would of been out of business, and on the streets.
Is that what you want?
The company has turned the corner and we are profitable, you can't deny that.
I am far from the "I've got a job so what do I care attitude", I wish.
I've been working a side job (since about a week after the furloughs), out of aviation since last year, and I'm working almost everyday ( 4-8 hours) I have off.
IMHO, everyone in this fickle industry should have an plan and/or developingan alternate career that they can fall back on just in case something like this happens.
I'm sorry for your troubles, I really am.
Throwing mud at, distorting the truth, making wild, baseless conclusions at the company that I'm still employed at is just wrong.

RAJ on the other hand, IMHO has a screw loose in his head.
Completely disregarding the NJI/NJA merger LOA, he has his own "fantasyland" idea ofhowit should work, and everyone is wrong but himself.
RAJ reminds me of the person who convinced everyone he/she had won the powerball lottery, flew a BBJ on the side, had a PhD in Aeronautical Engineering from MIT, round tripped the Atlantic 300 times during his/her 5 years at the company.
There is just no reasoning with a stalker-weirdo.

 

[rajflyboy]

It's easy to see posts on our union messageboard from a very vocal few people and come to a conclusion about that.
The union leadership has facts and figures that guide them to make decisions for all of us.

We could have gotten someone in management with less skills to run the company.
In this world of inept, greedy managers we could have someone with much more selfish motives.
How hard would that of been?
We all would of been out of business, and on the streets.
Is that what you want?
The company has turned the corner and we are profitable, you can't deny that.
I am far from the "I've got a job so what do I care attitude", I wish.
I've been working a side job (since about a week after the furloughs), out of aviation since last year, and I'm working almost everyday ( 4-8 hours) I have off.
IMHO, everyone in this fickle industry should have an plan and/or developingan alternate career that they can fall back on just in case something like this happens.
I'm sorry for your troubles, I really am.
Throwing mud at, distorting the truth, making wild, baseless conclusions at the company that I'm still employed at is just wrong.

RAJ on the other hand, IMHO has a screw loose in his head.
Completely disregarding the NJI/NJA merger LOA, he has his own "fantasyland" idea ofhowit should work, and everyone is wrong but himself.
RAJ reminds me of the person who convinced everyone he/she had won the powerball lottery, flew a BBJ on the side, had a PhD in Aeronautical Engineering from MIT, round tripped the Atlantic 300 times during his/her 5 years at the company.
There is just no reasoning with a stalker-weirdo.

You don't know the pilot group. You also don't completely understand the merger and what the pilots want. You just attack people that don't agree with you. You have no facts to back yourself up either.

Explain to me why an NJA pilot with better seniority cannot bid the G5 over an NJI guy? Explain that hoss?

Also explain why NJI shouldn't have to pay due's ??

Show us FACTUAL data

 

[jppt2000]

Read the LOA, that would be a good start for facts.
It has been negotiated by far smarter, and capable people than both of us.
Your constant :crying: about the is LOA beginning to make me feel creepy uke:,
What did the SME say about your complaints?
No more RAJ, your arguments are circular.

 

[rajflyboy]

Read the LOA, that would be a good start for facts.
It has been negotiated by far smarter, and capable people than both of us.
Your constant :crying: about the is LOA beginning to make me feel creepy uke:,
What did the SME say about your complaints?
No more RAJ, your arguments are circular.

I'm waiting for your support to show up. Its apparant that you have none. Goodbye

 

[Helmsalee]

RAJ, the LOA is a done deal. Just like the CBA, you may not like everything in it, but it is what it is. The fact that you don't like it is irrelevant. Throwing out things like back dues to some previous date makes you look ridiculous. Their dues will start on the date they are represented by NJASAP, which I think makes sense. And, even if you think it doesn't, you cannot change it. All you are doing is spreading ill will and irritating people. I am not a big fan of jppt, but I guess, this time, I am part of his support.