Reality Check for NetJets Pilots

[gunfyter]

Well if they run out of resumes, I have three or four hundred I can let them borrow.

You have 400 resumes of guys who CAN do my job and WILL cross a picketline during a strike for 27K per year?

Hold on to them... you might be able to sell that list for a good profit...

 

[Publishers]

don't

Don't put words in my mouth....... I said there are pile of pilots who would like to get on with Netjets.

Secondly, if you guys went on strike, I would say it would set this company back immeasurably. NJOwner and the various share owners would not meet this with much but distain and a move away from Netjets in droves. As I said, these people come to Netjets to have the problems of running your own aircraft go away and they will not suffer long with their services pulled.

Besides with the clever move to get everyone upgrade pay, it is not a $27k a year deal now is it? Vote on the thing and move on to the next step. The whinning in here is worse than from the jet engines on my ramp.

 

[gunfyter]

Vote is counted on the 29th.

Suggestion:

If you like the whining on your ramp better than here... Why don't you stroll the flightline instead of coming here. You won't be missed ....

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

The bird cage needs changing!

Well if they run out of resumes, I have three or four hundred I can let them borrow.

Make a great liner.

 

[Majik]

Secondly, if you guys went on strike, I would say it would set this company back immeasurably. NJOwner and the various share owners would not meet this with much but distain and a move away from Netjets in droves. As I said, these people come to Netjets to have the problems of running your own aircraft go away and they will not suffer long with their services pulled.

And that will be a decision that Santulli will have to make. Will he decide it's better to have the owners leave in droves (as you put it) or will he decide to increase the pilot salaries. We'll never know unless we take it that far.

You also say it would take a nano-second for NJA to hire 1900 replacement pilots and have flight safety type them and pump them out to fly our owners and their families around the country. Even if they could do that in 6 months, I'd hate to be an owner during that "learning curve".

 

[dukeofdub]

If the Owners own the aircraft, then what is tokeep them from taking it out of the NJA operations contract and moving it somewhere else? It is their airplane. Could they take them out and put them with another company if there is a strike?

 

[pilotyip]

Street Capt nothing new

In the summer of 2001, we had three of our DA-20 Captains go over to NJA and they made Captain the first day of ground school in airplanes they had never flown. So it is nothing new to hire street captains. We have just recieved background checks on some of our former Captains who are in the hiring process at NJA. Are they pooling talent for something?

 

[CRAWDADDY]

I have three or four hundred I could let them borrow.

Then why aren't they here already? Are they waiting for things to get worse?

Besides with the clever move to get everyone upgrade pay, it is not a $27k a year deal now is it?

You're really in way over your head!

 

[Majik]

In the summer of 2001, we had three of our DA-20 Captains go over to NJA and they made Captain the first day of ground school in airplanes they had never flown. So it is nothing new to hire street captains. We have just recieved background checks on some of our former Captains who are in the hiring process at NJA. Are they pooling talent for something?

They actually made captain on their very first day of ground school? A bid came out on their first day, they bid it, it closed that very same day, they quickly finished up 2 weeks of ground school that morning, flew to Wichita, and received 2 weeks of training that afternoon?
Man, you guys have some talented folks over at your company.

I think your buddies were yanking your leg. They may have been awarded a bid while they were in company indoc but I bet it was at least 3 months (minimum) before they were released to fly as a captain, and that's best case.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

but I bet it was at least 3 months (minimum) before they were released to fly as a captain, and that's best case.

Some of the street captains still haven't been released. That is, unless you included those that were released back to the street!

 

[Hawkered]

I have flown as a vendor pilot, and as a "street" captain. Straight in to training, straight out and no...no problems since. Get over it. We can all be replaced in less than a month. Go to the following website.

www.fracpilot.com

The scab list is over 75 pages long with 5,800 names on it. Nearly the same number as are unemployed pilots in this country right now!

This is a terrible time to be asking for a raise- period!

 

[Publishers]

Obviously they could not replace the entire pilot corp overnight, that was not what I was talkiing about.

What I was saying is the people on this board who find it such a bad place to work, well, then go somewhere else if somewhere else is such a good deal. Netjets will not have any trouble replacing you.

 

[gunfyter]

I know what you were saying...

That is not how unionized labor works... That isn't one of the choices. Present an acceptable CBA... OR replace the ENTIRE pilot corps OVERNITE! That is how it works....

 

[Publishers]

That is always one of the choices unless you are an indentured servant.

Secondly, Netjets may not be able to fire you or replace you overnight but their customers can.

I hear all this from a very limited number of first officers who are greatly displeased with their plight. What I do not see is senior Netjets pilots on here whinning about the place. In fact, had a few private messages to the contrary.

Now you and some others may not think that I know anything about this but it wasn't you that the NY Times, San Fran Chronical, along with the AP came to after September for information about employment in the aviation business.

I have no problem with you guys negotiating for a better deal, that is great. The problem I have is when it become militant, facts are presented that are really totally irrevelant to anything, people pull off BS deals to get upgrades around the system, and fail to even realize the business they are in.

At Netjets, they had a good many people out of the military and other places where they came without a tremendous amount of real world aviation business. There are simple explanations for somethings and more complex for others. Obviously Netjets could not keep the upgrade pace going as they could not keep the business growing like it once did.

 

[Majik]

I have flown as a vendor pilot, and as a "street" captain. Straight in to training, straight out and no...no problems since. Get over it. We can all be replaced in less than a month. This is a terrible time to be asking for a raise- period!

I disagree that 1900 pilots could be replaced in a month.
When do suggest WOULD be a good time to ask for a raise, 6 years from now?
You're happy with the money, fine. I think we could do better and and don't mind using a stronger negotiating committee and delaying a 12% raise offered in the TA to explore that possibility.

What I was saying is the people on this board who find it such a bad place to work, well, then go somewhere else if somewhere else is such a good deal. Netjets will not have any trouble replacing you.

And I don't disagree. I like the job, just think we should try to negotiate for more money.

 

[Publishers]

There is I like the job and would like more money--- who would not want more---and there is the this sucks and I want to disrupt the goose that is laying the golden egg.

I have no problems with the negotoiate for more as stated above.

I have just seen too many cases where there is a tremedndous misconception of the other sides position. I do not know where they are economically right now, I suspect a bit weak. The one thing I do know is Netwife did not know that either.

While I know it is not a good comparison- United pissed off all their business customers getting a contract that was detrimental to the companies future and weakened them to where they could not withstand any adversity. In the end, it cost people jobs and their stock.

You can get all excited about the power thing -- call a strike, and, no they could not replace you en masse/ Then again they would probably not have to as I am not sure it would not help any chance of future expansion.

 

[Sarka]

I think we could do better and and don't mind using a stronger negotiating committee and delaying a 12% raise offered in the TA to explore that possibility.

They offered you guys a 12% raise? Now, I am really pi$$ed. They only gave me 3%. Good luck.

 

[netjetwife]

Be careful what you wish for....

Sarka, factor in the inflation over the past 6 years--3 yr contract plus 3yrs wasted to negotiate this rag and watch that 12% "raise" disappear! Now consider the fact that many currently working the flex (which pays more) will not be senior enough to hold the new flex/reserve schedule, as it is only available to the top 10% in seniority at each RCA. Those pilots will be taking a PAYCUT!

That's better, the green tinge is starting to fade....

 

[Sarka]

Yea. I started thinking about the fact that it's been 3 years, so it really is a pretty crappy raise over that span of time. I know I wasn't very happy with what I got either. I've gotten great personnel reviews every year, but still get the "standard".Like I said earlier. Good luck.

 

[rajflyboy]

Publishers:


The management and the pilot group are on different highways that don't appear to be merging anytime soon. Both sides need to come together at some point in the near future. This could be a great company to work for. Going through some real growing pains right now!