Reality Check for NetJets Pilots

[netjetwife]

Correcting Misunderstandings

FedEX and United were definitely turned down for AMERICAN AIRLINES Jet blue timing is a question, when did he apply vs getting offered the job? There was also a year back on active duty after AA furlough and before NetJets. JetBlue is in there somewhere. FedEX was a case of you snooze you lose. United and AA also offered at the same time, FedEx was too slow....timing makes a huge difference...all of this was BEFORE 9-11 He actually chose United first, just drive to Denver from the Springs....good for family life....wound up in the hiring pool too long so switched to AA. Crash pad in Dallas not good for family life.

For the 2nd time---pay attention. pls.. The NetJets job was based on the business model, the fact that Buffet had recently purchaed the company and that the contract had been under negotiations for one year already. He took a calculated risk, that the contract would pan out. The business angle is NOT the problem---the money is there. This TA is the FIRST offer and was done by a bad MEC. Things will change.

GR--yes I know about the 50% + 1....It will be voted down by a much higher margin than that. I've been calling and have already had one function in my area and am planning the next. Probably no one actually lied....fairer to say misled, but then maybe they believed what they told him. Other pilots on this board also feel that the interviewers aren't forthcoming enough ....very gray..

GS200---Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. ...just pointing out that on the Excel, my husband does ALL those jobs---bags, catering, cleaning, AND flying for an inexcusably low wage. A FA on another NJ plane should not be paid more, than an Excel FO, but they are. There are several unfair practices in the company that need to be addressed.

Coming to Colorado was the 15th move for our family..owed it to our children to put down some roots, and now commuting is even harder than before 9-11. Who says that we have to give up the AF life?? He may throw the towel in on flying. Take a management job somewhere, go back to being able to stay home, coach our son's hockey team, help coach USAFA Rugby again---that last year of AF was spent as an instructor at the Academy----smart guy. We can hang out in the O'Club and I can join a retired officers' wife club.

He is a great pilot, but flying isn't everything, and kids grow up fast. WE will fight a good fight, but after that---may decide that NOTHING makes up for his being gone half of the time.

Fly safe guys, and thanks for allowing me to post here in your pilo's world. My husband just got home so time to talk to him about our next union meeting for the families---a Pot Luck dinner. It even feels like old times in the AF, except for all the contract hassles. Is my family cut out for this life/flying? Jeff does a great job, and I'm coping, but if the money doesn't improve he will not stay--the sacrifices made by the family cannot be justified at the low salary.
Thanks again for the conversation,
LaVonn 43 stay home mom

 

[netjetwife]

Hey lady, did he turn down jetblue for nja or not?

Sorry Griz, I'm learning...and the dog fight was not too fair....where were you? LOL

JetBlue called while he had returned to active duty, I believe. And he didn't like the idea of the commute--said that it wouldn't work from Colorado. Was happy at the Academy , was going to fly with the cadets. Had to leave later because Congress didn't fund the money for those officers that had returned to active duty for more than 2yrs.

Jeff just got home so I need to say goodbye....perhaps YOU can convince the doubters that I really AM just one very upset pilot's wife....that was the post that made me so angry. I didn't suggest that he was not a pilot. Civility isn't too much to ask for. Thanks for the support to the wives, Griz

 

[Grim Reaper]

Griz, I must say you are a presistant one. Wasn't it you and my good bud GF that said the TA would never look like this. Hello: it looks like shct and it sux and you know it. Now your hero MEC is the shixts (off with their heads) and you want new heros via new MEC. Clue: easy to be the hero: hard to be the administrator. New MEC will not get more than there is to get. Mean time, the other fractionals will not support your pathetic effort to force the rich to pay more than they intend to pay.

If you vote it in the POS TA: suicide by gun to the head.

If you vote to reject: suicide by crash axe and the frist three blows were glancing.

Suggest you pick the least painful method.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Net Wife, move 18 times in 21 years. five years at sea, haze gray and uderway. Now let's speak of hard on a family.

 

[Grim Reaper]

If it is rejected, will send you the gift certificate to Tunn Tavern: ACY!

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

A few clarifications

Thank you Gordon. The fight is just beginning, and there are many other wives as angry as I am. Believe me, several times I wonder if he did the right thing to turn down FedEX...and they left the door open in case he ever changed his mind. The problem was that they wanted him to be an instructor--something he had yrs of experience with in the AF--for 3 yrs and then go start flying the line..BEHIND the pilots he had trained. Stupid policy! He had wowed them w/his teaching demo.

FEDEX: The instructor gig and a pilot position are two different things. The instructor does not get a seniority number until after the 3 years. He was not offered a pilot position. However, I know a few guys that took the instructor position in a down market (like the one we have now) and they flowed through to the seniority list at the beginning of the hiring cycle.

JETBLUE: would have been a better choice.

The decisons you mad as a family were based on quality of life issues tied to COS. You made the best decisions at the time with the information you had and decided to pass up better jobs for personal reasons.

SWA: for those that have suggested the SWA-USAF connection as a career change have not read her posts about Colorado. SWA does not fly to CO and that would be a commute. They were unwilling to do this before. Maybe now they are more "flexible and love to travel", but I would suggest riding it out at NetJets. You may be really pissed off now, but to change and start over, things most likely will get better and take longer to reach the break even point.
Emotional decisions made during extended contract negociations usually lead to poor choices.

Good luck,

Jeff

 

[Snakeplt]

The first two posters of this thread obviously don't have ANY idea of what they speak....ignore the flamebait boneheads !

 

[Les Paul]

The first two posters of this thread obviously don't have ANY idea of what they speak....ignore the flamebait boneheads !

First off... what is "flamebait"?? Is that some sort of internet geek language that you and your computer addicted junkies have made up?

Second.... I think I have plenty of "idea" of what I'm talking about. You and some of the weirdos around here just don't want to hear it.

The pilots at NetJets took jobs that in my opinion paid CRAP! Many... MANY of these pilots took them and stayed during the hiring boom of the late 90's. I have stated and will repeat again in plain english (and not internet geek speak like you) that I would never take a Frac job for the wages that NetJets pays... period. You all did in fact hire on, and now contract comes along and you all want UNREALISTIC pay.

Vote it down... I don't care. See if they will give you all $20,000 - $40,000 more a year. I'm simply pointing out that what you want will NOT happen, and you all will NEVER be happy with the end result. Fractional flying sux and you will not get paid what you think the job is worth!

I'm willing to bet that some of the regional pilots are laughing their @ss off at you now. I'll bet they really feel sorry for you. I had a reciprical codeshare regional pilot on my jumpseat a while back, b!tching all the way to KXXX, and I could not believe what he was being paid, and that he accepted the job under those work rules. He complained just like you all... only you work 14 days a month... he claims to work 20, and claims to make less than $20,000 a year. I sure didn't and wouldn't do it. I started at a major that I wanted to work for and knew the salary and risks involved. I've been fortunate for many years, but would have lived with the bad had it happened. Since I am a tolerant person in the cockpit, I let him whine.

But.... I don't have to fly with the immature crybabies that visit this website... so I won't let this pass.

Welcome to reality. You all criticize the truth, and the truth is you all sold your souls... and now you can't stand the heat, and I'm the bad guy. Well blast away... you made the choice... not me.

Thats what you get for taking a job HOPING for a dream.

Les Paul

 

[Snakeplt]

Let's see you STARTED at a Major...you are OBVIOUSLY an Ex-military type then. NOBODY on the civilian side STARTS at a Major. You have a very SKEWED view of the aviation world then mister dumbass ! If you walked right into a Major airline, then you don't even know what it means to fly at a regional so before you berate those "whiney regional types" think about who will be TAKING OVER YOUR COMFORTABLE job in the near future...LOL. Rj's are coming...the majors are slowly fading away. It's very easy to criticize when you sit where you obviously are. What is the point of you posting here if you have no idea about this job in the first place ? Go away and let us lowly frac pilots speak our geek speak...wouldn't want to belittle your ears with our whiney little selves....dickhead !

 

[netjetwife]

FEDEX: The instructor gig and a pilot position are two different things. The instructor does not get a seniority number until after the 3 years. He was not offered a pilot position. However, I know a few guys that took the instructor position in a down market (like the one we have now) and they flowed through to the seniority list at the beginning of the hiring cycle.

JETBLUE: would have been a better choice.

The decisons you mad as a family were based on quality of life issues tied to COS. You made the best decisions at the time with the information you had and decided to pass up better jobs for personal reasons.

SWA: for those that have suggested the SWA-USAF connection as a career change have not read her posts about Colorado. SWA does not fly to CO and that would be a commute. They were unwilling to do this before. Maybe now they are more "flexible and love to travel", but I would suggest riding it out at NetJets. You may be really pissed off now, but to change and start over, things most likely will get better and take longer to reach the break even point.
Emotional decisions made during extended contract negociations usually lead to poor choices.

Good luck,

Jeff

Jeff, thanks for the support and constructive exchange. FedEX offered a pilot position AFTER the 3yrs of instructing. In the AF, we called it a "follow-on" assignment. He came home very excited about the company, in spite of the commute problem and being 3yrs behind in seniority. Very good chance he'd have taken it, but they called 1week too late. Decided to go for United--much closer and would fly right away. Timing AND family needs play a huge role in the decision-making process. After he was laid-off from AA---scary when he was always in the AF, never lost a job, family to support---went back on active duty under contract--during that time JetBlue called, I think. Was a hectic time---new baby and all.

There is no crystal ball. You can only make educated guesses while you balance the various needs of a family. He still has friends at SWA--that know his abilities--say come join us. But, I've tried to get the idea across, he WANTS to fight for what is fair, and he finds the job/flying there interesting--lots of variety you don't find at a regular airline. $28K isn't right for that job! I refuse to believe that it is impossible to reach a fair, win/win/ arrangement w/the company owned by a Billionair. Industry NBAA wages in line w/the company's position --75%--in the market place is NOT unreasonable. Now, pilots on welfare---that's another story!! TOTALLY UNREASONABLE!!!

 

[netjetwife]

The pilots at NetJets took jobs that in my opinion paid CRAP! Many... MANY of these pilots took them and stayed during the hiring boom of the late 90's. I have stated and will repeat again in plain english (and not internet geek speak like you) that I would never take a Frac job for the wages that NetJets pays... period. You all did in fact hire on, and now contract comes along and you all want UNREALISTIC pay.

Vote it down... I don't care. See if they will give you all $20,000 - $40,000 more a year. I'm simply pointing out that what you want will NOT happen, and you all will NEVER be happy with the end result. Fractional flying sux and you will not get paid what you think the job is worth!



Welcome to reality. You all criticize the truth, and the truth is you all sold your souls... and now you can't stand the heat, and I'm the bad guy. Well blast away... you made the choice... not me.

Thats what you get for taking a job HOPING for a dream.

Les Paul

LesPaul, I, too, can let things pass, which is why I deleted, your rude "immature" comments from the quote. So, moving along....

Many, many of the pilots joined NJets in just the last few years--time flies it's almost 2005, you know. My husband has only been there 20 months Warren Buffet only bought it a few years ago. For the pilots that made a difference. Being owned by Berkshire-Hathaway, is an assuranse that the company is going to be strong, financially. Buffet made huge investments into the company--he is known for doing that. The pilots could see the expansion taking place--new planes and hangers,etc. It is called smart business planning--to grow your company--even if you have to postpone the extras for awhile. The pilots were told repeatedly that they would be included once the company made it big. By nearly every standard, 75% of the market is considered a success. They didn't sell their souls. They made smart business gambles on a company that has been built by their efforts and major contribution. Time for the company to reciprocate with a leading NBAA salary. That is simple justice.

My brother-in-law has worked for Dell Computers in AustinTX for almost 15 yrs. He has helped to build the company, designed the software that manages the factory. His salary is 6 figures---not $1000 above the poverty level as the FO payscale is in the TA. My husband was thinking somewhere closer to $50K How is that unreasonable?

You know nothing about us. You don't know what makes us happy, and the job is usually interesting to my husband. Fortunately, there are more nice people in the world than there are losers and jerks, so most passengers are pleasant--a few even tip. More would if the company would stop discouraging it. That is another HUGE foul. The salary could be augmented at no cost to the company with a discreetly worded suggestion in the sales brochure and/or presentation.

 

[JustShy]

...a few even tip. More would if the company would stop discouraging it. That is another HUGE foul. The salary could be augmented at no cost to the company with a discreetly worded suggestion in the sales brochure and/or presentation.

(Office Space-esque)

Mmmmmm, yeah...

Not sure if that's the classiest road to go down...PLEASE tip Clarence the shoe luster technologist, John the line guy who dropped what he was doing to take you to Subway, or Debi who was the only one around to empty your lav on the quick turn (because you asked John to drive you to Subway), but PLEASE, don't attempt to make tipping me 'routine.'

Send the Captain in the crew car to Subway, empty the lav yourself, wash your hands, tip John and Debi for helping you pull off the quick turn, then go upstairs to your 2,500th floor office to eat your sandwich - it has decidedly the best view.

As sweet as the rare tip is, remember, our profession is as esteemed as any physician, dentist, or lawyer...professionals don't expect tips.

[Predictable: follow-up pay comparison posts]

 

[netjetwife]

(Office Space-esque)

Mmmmmm, yeah...

Not sure if that's the classiest road to go down...PLEASE tip Clarence the shoe luster technologist, John the line guy who dropped what he was doing to take you to Subway, or Debi who was the only one around to empty your lav on the quick turn (because you asked John to drive you to Subway), but PLEASE, don't attempt to make tipping me 'routine.'

Send the Captain in the crew car to Subway, empty the lav yourself, wash your hands, tip John and Debi for helping you pull off the quick turn, then go upstairs to your 2,500th floor office to eat your sandwich - it has decidedly the best view.

As sweet as the rare tip is, remember, our profession is as esteemed as any physician, dentist, or lawyer...professionals don't expect tips.

[Predictable: follow-up pay comparison posts]

Wrong prediction, pilots aren't doctors or lawyers etc. I'd post the pilot salaries if I had them here, but suffice it to say NetJets offered below industry average. Professional he may be, but it's obvious he's loading bags and serving catering/drinks. Other px do tip as you noted. It's an option for a company UNWILLING...I do not concede they're unable....to pay professional wages. If you are paying below average, at the very least stop discouraging tips. JUST SAY NOTHING maybe more would just then tip because it is what the rich do for the people who have provided a service. I'm saying that it is HYPOCRITICAL of the company to pretend to have the best paid pilots when they pay closer to the bottom. Here's another one--How can the same pilot be both a Captain and an FO, at the same time. They tell pilots --you are a FO, here's $28K--then turn right around and tell the owners--we have 2 Captains on every plane.! The FO is forced to carry the PIC type rating. They should be paid accordingly.

 

[BornAgainPagan]

Grim,

I'll bet a cold frosty on that one. Guinness will do just fine. Let me know where to collect.

Your drink Guiness cold?

Beer is served cold to mask the lame taste. (Reference cheap American/Canadian swill. )Try it at a little less than room temperature.....Yum!

 

[PseudoName]

The first two posters of this thread obviously don't have ANY idea of what they speak....ignore the flamebait boneheads !

Really? Well since you have gone to great lengths in contributing your well thought out post to this board, I wil surely agree with you.

Here's more food for thought......If you take the magic 5 year Captain 100K payscale for NetJets, calculate the amount paid daily for that pilot to fly or be on-call, then take that rate times the average days a year a charter/corporate pilot works.....well the figure is somewhere around 150K.

150K per year for a charter/corporate pilot salary?? Yeah, right. Maybe only Fortune 500 flight departments, Chief Pilots, managers, etc.....but not a realistic salary for a 5th year pilot at any company. Yes, I would love to put that kind of money in my bank account, but come on, that's just pure greed!