Reality Check for NetJets Pilots

[netjetwife]

The pilots at NetJets took jobs that in my opinion paid CRAP! Many... MANY of these pilots took them and stayed during the hiring boom of the late 90's. I have stated and will repeat again in plain english (and not internet geek speak like you) that I would never take a Frac job for the wages that NetJets pays... period. You all did in fact hire on, and now contract comes along and you all want UNREALISTIC pay.

Vote it down... I don't care. See if they will give you all $20,000 - $40,000 more a year. I'm simply pointing out that what you want will NOT happen, and you all will NEVER be happy with the end result. Fractional flying sux and you will not get paid what you think the job is worth!



Welcome to reality. You all criticize the truth, and the truth is you all sold your souls... and now you can't stand the heat, and I'm the bad guy. Well blast away... you made the choice... not me.

Thats what you get for taking a job HOPING for a dream.

Les Paul

LesPaul, I, too, can let things pass, which is why I deleted, your rude "immature" comments from the quote. So, moving along....

Many, many of the pilots joined NJets in just the last few years--time flies it's almost 2005, you know. My husband has only been there 20 months Warren Buffet only bought it a few years ago. For the pilots that made a difference. Being owned by Berkshire-Hathaway, is an assuranse that the company is going to be strong, financially. Buffet made huge investments into the company--he is known for doing that. The pilots could see the expansion taking place--new planes and hangers,etc. It is called smart business planning--to grow your company--even if you have to postpone the extras for awhile. The pilots were told repeatedly that they would be included once the company made it big. By nearly every standard, 75% of the market is considered a success. They didn't sell their souls. They made smart business gambles on a company that has been built by their efforts and major contribution. Time for the company to reciprocate with a leading NBAA salary. That is simple justice.

My brother-in-law has worked for Dell Computers in AustinTX for almost 15 yrs. He has helped to build the company, designed the software that manages the factory. His salary is 6 figures---not $1000 above the poverty level as the FO payscale is in the TA. My husband was thinking somewhere closer to $50K How is that unreasonable?

You know nothing about us. You don't know what makes us happy, and the job is usually interesting to my husband. Fortunately, there are more nice people in the world than there are losers and jerks, so most passengers are pleasant--a few even tip. More would if the company would stop discouraging it. That is another HUGE foul. The salary could be augmented at no cost to the company with a discreetly worded suggestion in the sales brochure and/or presentation.

 

[JustShy]

...a few even tip. More would if the company would stop discouraging it. That is another HUGE foul. The salary could be augmented at no cost to the company with a discreetly worded suggestion in the sales brochure and/or presentation.

(Office Space-esque)

Mmmmmm, yeah...

Not sure if that's the classiest road to go down...PLEASE tip Clarence the shoe luster technologist, John the line guy who dropped what he was doing to take you to Subway, or Debi who was the only one around to empty your lav on the quick turn (because you asked John to drive you to Subway), but PLEASE, don't attempt to make tipping me 'routine.'

Send the Captain in the crew car to Subway, empty the lav yourself, wash your hands, tip John and Debi for helping you pull off the quick turn, then go upstairs to your 2,500th floor office to eat your sandwich - it has decidedly the best view.

As sweet as the rare tip is, remember, our profession is as esteemed as any physician, dentist, or lawyer...professionals don't expect tips.

[Predictable: follow-up pay comparison posts]

 

[netjetwife]

(Office Space-esque)

Mmmmmm, yeah...

Not sure if that's the classiest road to go down...PLEASE tip Clarence the shoe luster technologist, John the line guy who dropped what he was doing to take you to Subway, or Debi who was the only one around to empty your lav on the quick turn (because you asked John to drive you to Subway), but PLEASE, don't attempt to make tipping me 'routine.'

Send the Captain in the crew car to Subway, empty the lav yourself, wash your hands, tip John and Debi for helping you pull off the quick turn, then go upstairs to your 2,500th floor office to eat your sandwich - it has decidedly the best view.

As sweet as the rare tip is, remember, our profession is as esteemed as any physician, dentist, or lawyer...professionals don't expect tips.

[Predictable: follow-up pay comparison posts]

Wrong prediction, pilots aren't doctors or lawyers etc. I'd post the pilot salaries if I had them here, but suffice it to say NetJets offered below industry average. Professional he may be, but it's obvious he's loading bags and serving catering/drinks. Other px do tip as you noted. It's an option for a company UNWILLING...I do not concede they're unable....to pay professional wages. If you are paying below average, at the very least stop discouraging tips. JUST SAY NOTHING maybe more would just then tip because it is what the rich do for the people who have provided a service. I'm saying that it is HYPOCRITICAL of the company to pretend to have the best paid pilots when they pay closer to the bottom. Here's another one--How can the same pilot be both a Captain and an FO, at the same time. They tell pilots --you are a FO, here's $28K--then turn right around and tell the owners--we have 2 Captains on every plane.! The FO is forced to carry the PIC type rating. They should be paid accordingly.

 

[BornAgainPagan]

Grim,

I'll bet a cold frosty on that one. Guinness will do just fine. Let me know where to collect.

Your drink Guiness cold?

Beer is served cold to mask the lame taste. (Reference cheap American/Canadian swill. )Try it at a little less than room temperature.....Yum!

 

[PseudoName]

The first two posters of this thread obviously don't have ANY idea of what they speak....ignore the flamebait boneheads !

Really? Well since you have gone to great lengths in contributing your well thought out post to this board, I wil surely agree with you.

Here's more food for thought......If you take the magic 5 year Captain 100K payscale for NetJets, calculate the amount paid daily for that pilot to fly or be on-call, then take that rate times the average days a year a charter/corporate pilot works.....well the figure is somewhere around 150K.

150K per year for a charter/corporate pilot salary?? Yeah, right. Maybe only Fortune 500 flight departments, Chief Pilots, managers, etc.....but not a realistic salary for a 5th year pilot at any company. Yes, I would love to put that kind of money in my bank account, but come on, that's just pure greed!

 

[VmaxFlyR]

Really? Well since you have gone to great lengths in contributing your well thought out post to this board, I wil surely agree with you.

Here's more food for thought......If you take the magic 5 year Captain 100K payscale for NetJets, calculate the amount paid daily for that pilot to fly or be on-call, then take that rate times the average days a year a charter/corporate pilot works.....well the figure is somewhere around 150K.

150K per year for a charter/corporate pilot salary?? Yeah, right. Maybe only Fortune 500 flight departments, Chief Pilots, managers, etc.....but not a realistic salary for a 5th year pilot at any company. Yes, I would love to put that kind of money in my bank account, but come on, that's just pure greed!

Not sure you should be lumping charter and corporate pilots togather, jobs and pay aren't the same...

BTW, on a day/hourly comparison, 5 year 100k NJA would be more like $115k for the purposes of your post. Few of the corporate guys I know put in the duty time it seems the NJA folks put in, this with entry salaries equal or better than the proposed 5 year Captain pay grade at NJA.

But then, charter comparisons could be very different considering all the "on call" duty time.

 

[PseudoName]

VmaxFlyr....I agree there is a difference in charter vs corporate pilots. From now on I will just talk about charter pilots....which are closer to NetJet pilots and who make less than your corporate Part 91 pilots. Comparing the salaries and job duties of a charter pilot will make the pay and job duties of a NetJet pilot look even better. Where in the business aviation sector can you find a flying job that guarantees at least 14 days off per month where you are not on call, doing office duties, on the pager or phone!!!

 

[VmaxFlyR]

VmaxFlyr....I agree there is a difference in charter vs corporate pilots. From now on I will just talk about charter pilots....which are closer to NetJet pilots and who make less than your corporate Part 91 pilots. Comparing the salaries and job duties of a charter pilot will make the pay and job duties of a NetJet pilot look even better. Where in the business aviation sector can you find a flying job that guarantees at least 14 days off per month where you are not on call, doing office duties, on the pager or phone!!!

With corporate pilots getting at least 10 days off per month (many more "guaranteed days" than 135 pilots), and NJA pilots expected to provide a level of service equal to or exceeding those of their corporate counterparts, I'd argue that NJA pilots SHOULD be more closely compared to the corporate folks.

Most corporate gigs will do 3-4 legs per day on the "occassional HIGH side," which would probably be an average day at NJA I'd guess, with many corporate days consisting of 1 leg-to the hotel-then 1 leg back to the base a day or two later.

I'd guess that 3-4 legs every day for those days that the chater folks fly would also be on the High Side, so the NJA pilots clearly fly more than any of the previously mentioned other groups.

What's that worth? Time will tell...

 

[Number$Cruncher]

....After flying them thru the storms of the east coast at night, safely to their destination,( in spite of the distractions),arranging for their limo, and unloading their luggage my husband watched them tip everyone on the line BUT the pilots.

Y'might want to be careful what you wish for. Most fractional contracts with the owners specifically prohibit offering gratuities to the flight crews. Any pilot or FA accepting a tip might find him/herself on the short end of a pink slip.

As sympathetic as I am to the very low wages NetJets offers in the first few years, no one forced anyone to take the job.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

For the 2nd time---pay attention. pls.. The NetJets job was based on the business model, the fact that Buffet had recently purchaed the company and that the contract had been under negotiations for one year already. He took a calculated risk, that the contract would pan out. The business angle is NOT the problem---the money is there. This TA is the FIRST offer and was done by a bad MEC. Things will change.

You've mentioned a few things that just don't ring true. You're not alone, but I can't help but point them out.

1.) Buffett doesn't own BH, he runs it. He owns some of it, as a shareholder, but nowhere near a majority take.
2.) The fact that NJ has 75% market share (it doesn't) has absolutely no impact on its profitability. American, Delta, US Airways and United together have a very big chunk of the domestic airline traffic, but none of them make a dime. Revenue does not equal (or even provide a hint of) profit.
3.) The contract will almost certainly pass. Not definitely, but almost certainly.
4.) "The money is there." Where, exactly? With the owners? They will pay only as much as they believe the NJ service is worth, no more. If NJ has to pay the pilots more and must raise prices to try to cover the increase, the owners will go along with it only so far as they believe the service merits a premium over what other fractionals charge. That is basic business. If by saying "the money is there" you mean at Berkshire Hathaway, why exactly would they give the money to the pilots if they didn't have to? They've been able to get enough pilots, and they always will. NetJets is not yet returning any meaningful profit to BH or its shareholders, and even if it were, the best pilots can hope for is a profit sharing deal. The supply of willing pilots will always exceed the demand; the only bottleneck that will be faced is the training pipeline capacity.