Reality Check for NetJets Pilots

[On Your Six]

Okay... a quick break here to pass along some thoughts.

I just received a Private Message from Netjetwife. I will not paste that message, because netjetwife indicated that they wanted this to remain private between us for some reason. I do not respond to PM's unless it is someone that I know. On the Cargo forum a while back, someone PM'd me and I did respond... but that was an exception to the rule.

Netjetwife gave me an e-mail address and a telephone number (for the Colorado Springs area) and asked that I contact her. I am a married man, and this is just a fun forum, and thats all it is for me. I have no intention of corresponding with you, for I have no reason, nor do you have a reason for contacting me. I will only respond to you here. You are fortunate I am honoring your privacy request by deleting your Private Message and not pasting it here. Please do not PM me again.

It really isn't smart to be giving your phone number out to people on the internet you don't know. Netjetwife... what were you thinking?!

We are not suddenly "buddies". This is the internet lady.... go play with your husband or your little girlfriends.

Folks... for me....this is a message forum for an exchange of thoughts, not a social club for meeting people.

Lady... you're too wierd for me. You win on this thread... I'm done interacting with you. You can talk and answer yourself.


Les Paul

Dude, you need to chill out. Perhaps go outside and run around a bit... Participation on this board is voluntary - you don't need to respond to anyone. You're taking this waaaaaaaaaaaaay too seriously.

 

[jumper52]

Turn down Fedex?

I can understand turning down United, after working for them for almost 15years, but to turn down FEDEX!!!! Say it ain't so!!! And as for his present flying job at Netjets, I can understand his frustration but ever think about " he could be sitting on the street corner looking up at like alot of us are doing right now" Good luck and happy flying!!!

 

[netjetwife]

Okay... a quick break here to pass along some thoughts.

I just received a Private Message from Netjetwife. I will not paste that message, because netjetwife indicated that they wanted this to remain private between us for some reason. I do not respond to PM's unless it is someone that I know. On the Cargo forum a while back, someone PM'd me and I did respond... but that was an exception to the rule.

Netjetwife gave me an e-mail address and a telephone number (for the Colorado Springs area) and asked that I contact her. I am a married man, and this is just a fun forum, and thats all it is for me. I have no intention of corresponding with you, for I have no reason, nor do you have a reason for contacting me. I will only respond to you here. You are fortunate I am honoring your privacy request by deleting your Private Message and not pasting it here. Please do not PM me again.

It really isn't smart to be giving your phone number out to people on the internet you don't know. Netjetwife... what were you thinking?!

We are not suddenly "buddies". This is the internet lady.... go play with your husband or your little girlfriends.

Folks... for me....this is a message forum for an exchange of thoughts, not a social club for meeting people.

Lady... you're too wierd for me. You win on this thread... I'm done interacting with you. You can talk and answer yourself.


Les Paul

You lying jerk! Yes, I've sent PMs in response to those that offered their support in that format, signed my name---LaVonn--and my posts have made it clear that I live in Colorado Springs. In case you missed it, LP, I tactfully posted my belief that you do nothing but spew garbage all over the board. They were right to call you a troll...rather polite term , I think. Everyone has heard "there's a rotten apple in every basket" and it is crystal clear who that is on this board. Sad that we have to "step around" the obnoxious ones to have an intelligent debate of the issues. Go ahead! Post my email address and phone number that you claim to have. Dig thru the trash if you have to retrieve it--that shouldn't be a problem for you---wallowing in garbage seems to be a pasttime you enjoy!

 

[netjetwife]

I can understand turning down United, after working for them for almost 15years, but to turn down FEDEX!!!! Say it ain't so!!! And as for his present flying job at Netjets, I can understand his frustration but ever think about " he could be sitting on the street corner looking up at like alot of us are doing right now" Good luck and happy flying!!!

Jumper52, if you are asking me about Jeff, here is the answer. Jeff has other skills so will not be without a job should he decide to leave aviation. In the meantime, we choose to join the other NJ pilots in their fight for a fair contract.

Here we go again... FedEX was his 1st job interview after retiring from the AF, followed very closely by United and American. There were 2 problems: 1) Jeff was offered a 3yr instructor position w/a follow-on as a line pilot. For family reasons we didn't want to move to Memphis, and as a matter of principal we didn't like the idea that the pilots he trained would be senior to him when he began flying. 2). The personell dept at FedEX were slow --2 wks?--in completing their work and offering the job, a fact which displeased the interview pilot (I took his call at home) greatly. I informed him that Jeff had been interviewed by both United and AA in the meantime and was considering one of them. The instructors at FedEX were also paid considerably less than the line pilots there and at the airlines. Keep in mind that this all took place prior to 9-11. Based on the information of that time, Jeff made the best decision for our family.

 

[FL717]

Still curious. Are you a Frac pilot?

I don't have a dog in this fight and really don't want to engage in the brow beating with this jerk "Les Paul". His sexist comments reminded me of who this guy is, and he is too scared to post his profile so I will tell you what I know. Maybe someone else can add to it.

I've been on flightinfo for some time, and I can offer something that happened about a year ago on these message boards. He (Les Paul) got into a sexist forum bashing with another female pilot on these forums. He was quite rude and I think he was warned by the moderators. I'm not sure. Anyway, I believe was outed on that thread by someone who knows him, and then "Les" deleted all his posts with all the derogatory comments he made to this female pilot, and disappeared... thank goodness. I guess he's back only on this forum for some reason.

I don't remember who it was that knew him, but he alledgedly according to this person who outed him is a Contenental B-777 Captain who was ex-AirForce and a Thunderbird pilot who scabbed to get on at Continental in 1987 or 1988 when he separated from the AirForce. He's a "bad apple" as someone else put it... so believe me... take what he says with a grain of salt.

Oh... and Les... I won't respond to you so don't waste your time.

Sorry for the interruption and sorry to hijack the thread.

GO NETJETS PILOTS!!! Just say NO!

 

[Majik]

Wow, Les Paul is a SCAB! That explains a lot. Thanks for the history.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks for the tip--or are tips a sore subject? lol

Ignore lists are used for those people who's messages you wish not to read. By adding someone to your ignore list, those messages posted by these individuals will be hidden when you read a thread.

Click on Les Paul. View his profile. Then Click on... "Add to my Ignore List"

There... don't you feel much better now?

I don't know....I was glad to see his post about me sending him my email address and phone number----AS IF----so that I could hold it out for the garbage that it is. I guess I'm not as thick skinned as you guys, but I don't let BS like that go unchallenged. (It was too bad we had to leave the RS early) The contempt he shows for wives doesn't bode well for his present and/or future as a married man.

 

[English]

It's not contempt for wives, it is contempt for women.

 

[GVFlyer]

You were the sharpest kid in your class?? What... Army Flight training? Well... we're all awfully proud of you!! By the way... that doesn't take much. Isn't that along the lines of a GED class?!

Quick Question for you there Chief: Are they still letting High School graduates into Army Flight training?? They sure used to, and I'm willing to bet they still do. That should tell everyone something right there. A REAL Military Flight training Program requires an education.

BTW - I'll match my military "knowledge" and the true reality of the military flight training situation with you anyday. Here is the first.... IF you believe "a fixed wing transition one of the toughest things to obtain" then I think that is more indicative of the quality of the student (or lack thereof) and not the actual skillsets required.

Les Paul

I've flown with pilots from all branches while in joint service assignments; I'd be honored to go into combat with any of them. All the services spend around a million dollars on Undergraduate Pilot Training and all produce highly skilled warrior pilots.

Your comments demean the fine aviators of all services who are serving our country in foreign lands - if you are prior service, as some here suggest, you should be particularly ashamed of yourself.

Regarding Live4flying's post - it's the Israeli Air Force that has a high school to flight school program. The US Army requires a baccalaureate degree for commissioned officers and a two year degree with a demonstrated flight aptitude for warrant officers. Because of the ratio of airplanes to helicopters in his service, it is more selective to be chosen for a fixed-wing transition than a squadron command.

We flew OV-10's at TPS, they are treacherous machines. They are the kind of airplane in which you can do something right now that is going to kill you in 10 seconds and there's nothing you can do in the interim except use the seat. Anyone who can fly them single-pilot, all weather, night low-level while performing a military reconnaissance mission has my respect.

GV

 

[netjetwife]

I don't have a dog in this fight and really don't want to engage in the brow beating with this jerk "Les Paul". His sexist comments reminded me of who this guy is, and he is too scared to post his profile so I will tell you what I know. Maybe someone else can add to it.

I've been on flightinfo for some time, and I can offer something that happened about a year ago on these message boards. He (Les Paul) got into a sexist forum bashing with another female pilot on these forums. He was quite rude and I think he was warned by the moderators. I'm not sure. Anyway, I believe was outed on that thread by someone who knows him, and then "Les" deleted all his posts with all the derogatory comments he made to this female pilot, and disappeared... thank goodness. I guess he's back only on this forum for some reason.

I don't remember who it was that knew him, but he alledgedly according to this person who outed him is a Contenental B-777 Captain who was ex-AirForce and a Thunderbird pilot who scabbed to get on at Continental in 1987 or 1988 when he separated from the AirForce. He's a "bad apple" as someone else put it... so believe me... take what he says with a grain of salt.

Oh... and Les... I won't respond to you so don't waste your time.

Sorry for the interruption and sorry to hijack the thread.

GO NETJETS PILOTS!!! Just say NO!

Now that the truth is out maybe Les Paul will shut up and go away again. He truly is the "bad apple"--my post. Since you have exposed him, I trust the others here to recognize his posts for the worthless tripe they are. I too will put him on my ignore list--thanks for the tip, Gunfyter. And thank YOU, FL717 for the support. Your post added to, not detracted from, the thread. LB/NJW

 

[Live4flyng]

Thanks FL717

I don't remember who it was that knew him, but he alledgedly according to this person who outed him is a Contenental B-777 Captain who was ex-AirForce and a Thunderbird pilot who scabbed to get on at Continental in 1987 or 1988 when he separated from the AirForce. He's a "bad apple" as someone else put it... so believe me... take what he says with a grain of salt.

There you have it folks, the one with the biggest mouth turns out to be a SCAB. I doubt we will hear from the SCAB again.

 

[netjetwife]

Bravo! GV

Excellent post in defense of our military pilots! Your comments re: Army transition to fixed-wing, mirrors our conversations w/the Army couples we came across. They felt very lucky to be there. Getting into fighters in the AF, though not as difficult as the Army move, was not easy and timing definitely played a large role.

 

[sikntired]

My faith in humanity has been restored! Thank you, gentlemen, for being honorable and kind. (geez, it was getting kinda nasty for awhile!)

sikntired

 

[sikntired]

My faith in humanity has been restored! Thank you, gentlemen, for being honorable and kind. (geez, it was getting kinda nasty for awhile!)
Blood pressure...goin' down!

sikntired

 

[netjetwife]

Much nicer in here, now.

SnT, In writing an earlier post, I found myself being censored (showed up on the preview so I changed it) for the stronger version of "darn". I was saying someone was ...dam lucky, but I had spelled it properly. The whole thing strikes me as rather bizarre, considering the very PERSONAL insults that you and I have endured at the hands of the SCABBY TOAD...LOL There HAS been a lot of support shown lately, and the "Ignore List" button is an excellent feature. Picture this...Les Paul standing in an empty room calling out, "Hey, where'd everybody go?"...."Who turned out the lights?"...LOL

While you're here.....I want to ask if your "hubby" has ever received a tip from an owner? Did you read all of that particular debate?
LaVonn-NJW

 

[lawfly]

Reality Check For NetJets Pilots

Here is some business savvy realism for your little fantasy world:

IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE WHAT THE CLIENT IS WORTH......! Client net worth doesn't generate profits. What matters is how much revenue is generated on a given flight. (Quoted from page 1 of this thread)

My Comments:

I am not an MBA, CPA, or transactional attorney. Nor am I affiliated in any way with a fractional. I was wondering, though, if revenue per flight is quite the measurement with fractionals as it is with airlines or with a "pay as you fly" 135 operation, etc. The number of pax/cargo on board multiplied by the fares paid by each would work for a "pay as you fly" operation. But a fractional's revenue stream includes initiation fees, monthly/annual fees (all very substantial) and, lastly, per flight hour revenues. To take an extreme example, take an owner paying $1M of revenue into the fractional in Year X who flies one time in Year X. Is the revenue generated by that one flight measured solely by the flight time-based revenue? I would think that how much revenue is generated by flight time-based revenues is only one revenue consideration in assessing a fractional's actual or projected profitability. Actually, it's probably a pretty complicated accounting scenario. So, while the passenger's ("owner's") net worth is not a measure of the fractional's profitability, that owner's usage-based revenue is not the only revenue stream attributable to him by the fractional (the aforementioned monthly/annual fees, etc.) Would be interesting to hear from a qualified individual on the interplay of these factors in assessing company revenues and profitability, and, if at all, crew compensation.

As for this thread, wow, it is intensely personal for some. It went astray with details of particular pilots' backgrounds, family environments, career choices, etc. It is an otherwise interesting subject: how the fractionals are faring, how revenues and profitability are evaluated for this particular business model, and the current NetJets situation in particular.

 

[netjetwife]

Pilots must be paid like the professionals they are!

Crew compensation HAS to be looked at as a part of the entire picture of the company's financial standing. Pilots' wages are taken from management fees and are definitely a business cost, just as fuel, mx, and catering are. If NetJets has to make some adjustments to their business plan in order to compensate the pilots properly, then so be it.

Sorry for all the distractions on the thread. The frustration level is very high these days for the NJ pilots and their wives. There is a closed-minded element among the posters, that sees the NJ pilots as "whiners" that should shut up or leave. NetJet pilots/families are in a fight for a fair contract. That goal, if realized, could benefit the other fractionals as well. Surprisingly, that concept isn't as well-accepted as it should be. A rising tide lifts all boats.
Netjetwife

 

[lawfly]

Reality Check For NetJets Pilots

My purpose in posting was largely to point out the differences in the business model and revenue stream of a major airline and that of of a fractional, differences which previous posts ignored when they spoke of the number of seats/passengers, net worth of passengers,etc. Can't apply pay as you fly formula to a fractional for determination of revenues, profits.

Is NetJets profitable? I had heard that none of the big fractionals were actually profitable yet.

The size of the paycheck alone does not make a "professional". Some self-employed professionals with education, degrees, and licenses up the whazoo can have a difficult, unpredictable time financially. Many with institutional employers face unreasonable demands in workload. But I digress. Besides, if someone wanted that, he/she wouldn't have become a professional pilot, right?

In an earlier post, you said that FOs are "forced" to get typed. But NetJets does pay for the type, right? Wouldn't use the word "forced". A company-provided type for FOs is a good thing. I hear the schedule is 8 on, 7 or 8 off. I get the basic point: that the pay scales are low overall (even for mid level to senior captains?) , and that certain job conditions, like some of the hotels mentioned earlier, could stand improvement. I say, Good Luck. It will be interesting to see the outcome.

Oh, are there any married female pilots at NetJets? Maybe terminology shoud be NetJets pilots and their "spouses". Over and out.

Best to all.

 

[PseudoName]

Wow....a week has gone by since my original post......and no one has made a justified post which shows that the proposed NJA contract is a piece of crap and is not in tune with the rest of the business aviation community!!

I guess for all the NJA pilots and wives who have read the original post realize that deep down, the proposed TA is reasonable. For the rest of you, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. If you think you are underpaid, overworked........think again! NetJet pilots fly less, spend more time at home, have better benefits than the majority of pilots that work for companies who fly the same clientele as you do.

Don't believe me?? I recently offered a full time job to a NJA 5 yr Captain (flying same equipment) with a substantial increase in pay over his current salary. He turned it down.......said that we didn't offer him the quality of life that NetJets does (ie days off, vacation and retirement).

 

[FL450]

Thanks, Griz. I was going to post something similar, but I was too busy laughing.