Reality Check for NetJets Pilots

[Majik]

Its basic math . if your company is losing 100's of millions and you take a huge raise your going to go into bankrupcy.

3rd grade math

If your company is losing 100's of millions, even if you work for free, you're going to go into bankrupcy.

1st Grade Math

 

[rajflyboy]

Its True!

 

[pilotyip]

Bottom Line

Do not forget the bottom line. The reason many of the Frac owners went to NJA was to get out of the hassle of dealing with employees and doing business in a small flight dept. If the hassle returns in the way of NJA employees not wanting to work, the Frac owners are free to move away from the hassle. This will result in major job losses at NJA. In that case who will be the winner.

 

[gunfyter]

I guess CitationShares will be the winner... where the starting pay is 70% higher....

 

[rajflyboy]

PilotYip:



Your right. If the customers go away NJA will not be around in its current form. I do see pilots at NJA treating customers like garbage on a daily basis. Customers will leave. I keep trying to spread the word!

Pilots don't get their paycheck from Management or the Union. Pilots ultimately get paid by the customer. Customer service needs to remain a Priority at Netjets!

 

[Publishers]

United Airlines

The slowdown preceding is what drove the business people off United to where they thought they needed to settle or they would not have any high yield revenue left.

Unfortunately -- that was too late. Those left and did not come back very fast.

That merger was dead on arrival at DOT

Like most accidents, airline bankruptcy is rarely the result of one or two things, it is the combine that kills. Hence the work for free and they still lose money paudits.

Does it ever dawn on anyone with losses in the $900 million for the quarter for major carriers, maybe they should all just close and sell assets to the LCC's.

 

[rajflyboy]

Publishers:

The Airline System will work itself out in time. The weak will die off and the strong will survive. Its called Capitalism!

In a few years the airline industry will be back on track and more than likely, Southwest, Air Tran and Jet Blue will be leading the charge!

 

[FracCapt]

I do see pilots at NJA treating customers like garbage on a daily basis. Customers will leave. I keep trying to spread the word!

I've only seen something like that twice....and that was long before the TA. Overall, the crews I run into from all the frax are very professional. Of course, there are those out there that create a bad image for the rest of the crews, but they are, by far, the minority in my experience.

The one thing I have seen that I really have to shake my head at is when guys are complaining in the FBO's about the TA, where EVERYBODY can hear(crews and pax alike), and being very unprofessional about it. I've seen it a couple times. I overheard one crew talking just after the TA came out, in the middle of a very busy FBO lobby, about how they're going to "break this mother f'in airplane every f'in day until we get a g'dam great f'in contract". Somebody told them they were being a bit too loud, they appologized, and went to the pilots lounge...but they obviously let their emotions get the best of them.

 

[NJAowner]

My thoughts ....

Of course, I do not know as much as most of you, and only hang around for about 100 hours per year, but on 9/20 I posted:

"One observation -- with a limited but very significant exception, over the past 4 months I would say the crews have been much more friendly, considerate, helpful and child friendly than in the past. While many of you masy be p1$$ed off, service has been better than ever. I admit this must be difficult under the present circumstances . . . The sole exception was a recent F.O. who spent 10 minutes telling my wife and small children how he can not make ends meet, etc.... Other than that one exception, crews have been better than ever."

I have only had one flight since then and the comment still holds true. 9/20 was after the TA came out. I can not weigh in about FBO-talk. Most of the FBOs I visit have 2 lounges -- the Men's "lounge" and the Women's "lounge". We don't spend much time in the lounges.

Fly safe.

(Sarcasm Note: Griz, cgmanson, snakelesspilot -- flame me, blast me, and say I do not know of what I speak. You must always say I am wrong and speak the opposite. So please post you are really trying to treat the owners like garbage ... no ... wait .. you are in a dilemma. Can you speak the truth and agree with me?? Or is that too difficult? Let's see)

 

[netjetwife]

Wondering aloud---

How many hours had that crew been working already that day?...previous days? The 14 hour days that once were the exception, are increasingly becoming the rule. Too many 10 hour turn arounds and cold meals eaten on the run (read no breaks) lead to lapses in judgement. I'm not condoning their behavior, and agree that it was unprofessional, that said; it should come as no surprise that out of 1800 plus pilots, some will show signs of the strain. Let's be glad it--mistake in judgement-- happened on the ground and not in the air.

It is called labor "unrest" for obvious reasons. Companies that allow it to drag out far longer than necessary---and 3 years is certainly that--are only inviting trouble. The pilots waited too long for too little! That there aren't more mistakes being made, points to the high degree of professionalism exhibited by the vast majority of NJA pilots.

 

[NJAowner]

My crew

NJW -- if it was my crew:

My day: 1 hour positioning flight for my late morning departure. 3 hour flight for me.
Day before: static display .. not flying.
2 Days before: 1 3 hour leg; 1 hour position to static display.

This came from the F.O. himself. Did't recall where they were before that.

Fly safe.

 

[netjetwife]

I'm sorry, Owner, I should have been clearer in my post. I was actually referring to the crew that was mouthing off in the FBO. Not to say that your experience wasn't also regrettable (it was) but as you had already noted, that was also an exception.

 

[Hawkered]

Netjet Wife:

Good to see your posts a little bit tamed down...I think that it's relevant that fatigue, a broken plane, bad weather or even a touch of personality conflict in the crew pairing can result in a lack of professionalism. I personally don't think it ever gets dangerous, but, it goes on in every company and quite frankly, given the stress of the TA and the broken promises of the MEC, it certainly seems plausible.

I think that you may not know that I actually support many of your viewpoints. "Our " vote did go to Strong Union, but yes, I did vote yes.

Why?

Because we got beat! After three years...you've gotta move on hon'! It's really that simple! We'll do better next time with better representation, but, in the meantime I want the money in my bank account. I never paid for a job, worked for free, or crossed a picket line. I looked at the contract, believed it to be part of the imperfect world we live in and looked at the positives and not the neg's. It's not great. I agree!

I have a right to believe that your intrusiveness is wrong in a union election. Just as I also believe it would be wrong for a Canadian to vote in the November Elections for our US President. Do you get me? This is why people keep getting so mad at you!

Yes, you're right. But...it doesn't help, because you don't fly the plane. I tell you what, if SU gets in I'll personally do my best to see that you hold a position of office. Then we will pay you to rant! Man, if only the company could know how painful that's gonna get!


Netjet Owner

The tours vary alot. I was told today that I'm considered an Energizer Bunny, but I've never found the schedule, nor fatigue to get in the way of safety at NJA. The equipment is the best maintained I've seen in 21 years of worldwide aviation.

I get concerned when I see someone such as yourself on line here. These opinions are not mainstream. This is more of a fringe.

History shows us that extremism is bad, and that's the reason I would like to see a more concilliatory attitude to negotiations and a cessation of veiled threats. We are all in this together.

The majority will see to it that the union does not take a crap in it's own nest!

 

[FracCapt]

How many hours had that crew been working already that day?...previous days? The 14 hour days that once were the exception, are increasingly becoming the rule. Too many 10 hour turn arounds and cold meals eaten on the run (read no breaks) lead to lapses in judgement.

No, they didn't have any of those things for excuses.....they were on day 1. They had both airlined out of their domicile not more than 6 hours previously, since it was only about noon Eastern time. They were genuinely, and understandably, pissed off about the TA. They did show serious lack in judgement by being so vocal about it in the middle of a busy FBO. They were told how unprofessional they acted and that they needed to "STFU" in public by several (non NJA) crews because they were giving the rest of them a bad name. In fact, I was one of those crewmembers that mentioned this to them in private after they went to the pilots lounge.

I also got the impression they were pretty unhappy about being required to sit at the FBO after airlining in even though they had no planned trips, but a green airplane.

 

[netjetwife]

Hawkered, when I am given a chance to discuss the issues instead of having to fend off personal (and slanderous, I might add) attacks, it is quite easy to be "tame". Now on to the rest of your post...

Dangerous situations are plausible? Try telling that to the families of those killed in the recent plane crashes. While weather and some mx problems may not be avoidable, fatigue certainly is. The company needs to take those accidents as a badly needed "wake up" call and rethink their policy of trying to wring every hour, they think they can get away with, out of the pilots. Many NJ families are under financial pressure--after waiting 3 yrs for an equitable contract that never arrived-- ( not whining, just stating a fact) that has lead to severely strained marriages. The TA/MEC/284 nightmare is an incredible frustration that has emotions running high in many pilots. When you combine stress, a flight in the 14th hour in bad weather, and an aircraft malfunction; an accident is certainly plausible--some will even say it's just a matter of time until NJA is also in the news.

I haven't forgotten our attempts to find common ground, Hawkered. Nor your promise to stop being so "mean" to me. BTW, I just ran into your "evil twin"... on another thread..lol It isn't surprising that you voted yes; your selfishness comes across loud and clear. Does hearing about the plight of FO families make it hard for you to rationalize your position, I wonder. We certainly DID NOT "get beat". That was only round one, not the whole fight. This IS the NEXT TIME--as you guys said that same thing LAST TIME!

Of course you voted for SU. You may be selfish, but you're certainly not stupid...

My PERSPECTIVE is analogous to a Canadian voting here?? That's as good as you can do, Hawkered? Very lame..lol A Canadian doesn't HAVE to live under the laws here. The family members of a NJ pilot have every facet of their lives impacted by the Union contract, from finances to family time, nothing goes untouched. No, I don't fly the airplane. But my HUSBAND, our children's FATHER, does! Reread what I had to say about accidents, and tell me again that I have no right to speak out on the issues.
Netjetwife
P2P Team Member

PS Thanks for the offer to get me a job, Hawkered. But as you can see, I have been given one already, along w/my husband of course--a "2 for 1" volunteer position. I/WE were offered the position, personally, by the director of the program. Just as I was invited, personally, to post on the SU/ASAP board. Contrary to your opinion, many others have told me that they enjoy reading my posts and watching me "kick-ass" (their words, not mine) on Flightinfo.