Reality Check for NetJets Pilots

[Hawkered]

I have flown as a vendor pilot, and as a "street" captain. Straight in to training, straight out and no...no problems since. Get over it. We can all be replaced in less than a month. Go to the following website.

www.fracpilot.com

The scab list is over 75 pages long with 5,800 names on it. Nearly the same number as are unemployed pilots in this country right now!

This is a terrible time to be asking for a raise- period!

 

[Publishers]

Obviously they could not replace the entire pilot corp overnight, that was not what I was talkiing about.

What I was saying is the people on this board who find it such a bad place to work, well, then go somewhere else if somewhere else is such a good deal. Netjets will not have any trouble replacing you.

 

[gunfyter]

I know what you were saying...

That is not how unionized labor works... That isn't one of the choices. Present an acceptable CBA... OR replace the ENTIRE pilot corps OVERNITE! That is how it works....

 

[Publishers]

That is always one of the choices unless you are an indentured servant.

Secondly, Netjets may not be able to fire you or replace you overnight but their customers can.

I hear all this from a very limited number of first officers who are greatly displeased with their plight. What I do not see is senior Netjets pilots on here whinning about the place. In fact, had a few private messages to the contrary.

Now you and some others may not think that I know anything about this but it wasn't you that the NY Times, San Fran Chronical, along with the AP came to after September for information about employment in the aviation business.

I have no problem with you guys negotiating for a better deal, that is great. The problem I have is when it become militant, facts are presented that are really totally irrevelant to anything, people pull off BS deals to get upgrades around the system, and fail to even realize the business they are in.

At Netjets, they had a good many people out of the military and other places where they came without a tremendous amount of real world aviation business. There are simple explanations for somethings and more complex for others. Obviously Netjets could not keep the upgrade pace going as they could not keep the business growing like it once did.

 

[Majik]

I have flown as a vendor pilot, and as a "street" captain. Straight in to training, straight out and no...no problems since. Get over it. We can all be replaced in less than a month. This is a terrible time to be asking for a raise- period!

I disagree that 1900 pilots could be replaced in a month.
When do suggest WOULD be a good time to ask for a raise, 6 years from now?
You're happy with the money, fine. I think we could do better and and don't mind using a stronger negotiating committee and delaying a 12% raise offered in the TA to explore that possibility.

What I was saying is the people on this board who find it such a bad place to work, well, then go somewhere else if somewhere else is such a good deal. Netjets will not have any trouble replacing you.

And I don't disagree. I like the job, just think we should try to negotiate for more money.

 

[Publishers]

There is I like the job and would like more money--- who would not want more---and there is the this sucks and I want to disrupt the goose that is laying the golden egg.

I have no problems with the negotoiate for more as stated above.

I have just seen too many cases where there is a tremedndous misconception of the other sides position. I do not know where they are economically right now, I suspect a bit weak. The one thing I do know is Netwife did not know that either.

While I know it is not a good comparison- United pissed off all their business customers getting a contract that was detrimental to the companies future and weakened them to where they could not withstand any adversity. In the end, it cost people jobs and their stock.

You can get all excited about the power thing -- call a strike, and, no they could not replace you en masse/ Then again they would probably not have to as I am not sure it would not help any chance of future expansion.

 

[Sarka]

I think we could do better and and don't mind using a stronger negotiating committee and delaying a 12% raise offered in the TA to explore that possibility.

They offered you guys a 12% raise? Now, I am really pi$$ed. They only gave me 3%. Good luck.

 

[netjetwife]

Be careful what you wish for....

Sarka, factor in the inflation over the past 6 years--3 yr contract plus 3yrs wasted to negotiate this rag and watch that 12% "raise" disappear! Now consider the fact that many currently working the flex (which pays more) will not be senior enough to hold the new flex/reserve schedule, as it is only available to the top 10% in seniority at each RCA. Those pilots will be taking a PAYCUT!

That's better, the green tinge is starting to fade....

 

[Sarka]

Yea. I started thinking about the fact that it's been 3 years, so it really is a pretty crappy raise over that span of time. I know I wasn't very happy with what I got either. I've gotten great personnel reviews every year, but still get the "standard".Like I said earlier. Good luck.

 

[rajflyboy]

Publishers:


The management and the pilot group are on different highways that don't appear to be merging anytime soon. Both sides need to come together at some point in the near future. This could be a great company to work for. Going through some real growing pains right now!

 

[FLYLOW22]

...and there is the this sucks and I want to disrupt the goose that is laying the golden egg.

Dude. If you are gonna try and pan off a quote from Rick Dubinsky as one of your own then at least get is right. The Rick said, "I don't want to KILL the goose that lays the golden egg, I just want to strangle every last golden egg I can out of it."

While I know it is not a good comparison- United pissed off all their business customers getting a contract that was detrimental to the companies future and weakened them to where they could not withstand any adversity. In the end, it cost people jobs and their stock.

Question: Was it the pilots who put a financial strain on UAL with the contract they negotiated or was it management? Management at that time was sooo busy licking each others butts over the proposed merger with US Airways and the revenue synergies that it would have reportedly created that:

1. The pilot salaries were totally justifiable and supportable IF the merger had been allowed.

2. The pilots didn't pull a fast one to get the contract. Rick made the offer, management accepted. Rick was completely shoked and prepared to take less but... oh well, what the hell.

Too bad the management teams at UAL and U didn't "have a plan B" because both MANAGEMENT TEAMS were spending money like a college kid in Cacun with his first credit card. It was a case of wreckless abandonment on mismanagements part.

You can get all excited about the power thing -- call a strike, and, no they could not replace you en masse/ Then again they would probably not have to as I am not sure it would not help any chance of future expansion.

Oh. Are you in the know? How is the weather in CMH today??

 

[rajflyboy]

"1. The pilot salaries were totally justifiable and supportable IF the merger had been allowed."


That statement is pure laughable. This contract only worsened the plight of United Airlines with or without a Merger!

 

[Majik]

This contract only worsened the plight of United Airlines with or without a Merger!

I highlighted the most important word in your statement, just in case you failed to realize how important it really was. If every United employee (including senior management) had worked for free the year preceeding 9/11/01, the company still would have lost money.
So technically, you're right, the fact that any employee drew a salary (even if it was only $5/year) worsened the financial situation that management allowed the company to get into.

 

[FLYLOW22]

"1. The pilot salaries were totally justifiable and supportable IF the merger had been allowed."


That statement is pure laughable. This contract only worsened the plight of United Airlines with or without a Merger!

In light of 9/11... yes you are right. In 2000 with a combined U/UAL (the good old days) the contract was expensive but doable. Revenue synergy was going to be huge. 1 + 1 = 5 in this case.

BUT... the merger never happened and UAL had the ship on autopilot for too long and ran aground when it became apparent that they had no plan B. Thank Glen Tilton for that and thank Stephen Wolf for the same at Airways.

 

[rajflyboy]

Its basic math . if your company is losing 100's of millions and you take a huge raise your going to go into bankrupcy.


3rd grade math