Reality Check for NetJets Pilots

[niteflyr]

"having an exchange w/pilots and/or wives that are too afraid to stand up for what is clearly right."
** NJA Wife 10-25-04

"The lack of self-worth, exhibited by some, never ceases to amaze me."
** NJA Wife 10-24-04

What words exactly was I putting in your mouth? Sure your name isn't Kerry??

 

[netjetwife]

Absolutely, you twisted what I said, just as you are here. I don't think yes voters are worthless! Apparently, I think their skills are worth more than they, themselves, do. I urge ALL pilots that are underpaid to stand up for themselves at ALL companies. I place a high value on their airmanship, as I do my husband's. That FOs at NJA qualify for gov't assistance is definitely WRONG! For the company to expect the pilots to work for free (doing part of recurrent at home without pay) is totally UNFAIR! That some FAs make more than some of the pilots is UNJUST! There are some pilots and their wives who DO SAY we shouldn't "rock the boat"....regardless of these FACTS. Hence, my statement that they are too afraid to stand up for what is right. Their emails and phone calls exhibit a lot of fear/worry about the pilots losing their jobs if they ask for a living wage. It MUST be noted, though, that NONE of them are on FO pay, or even the lower Cpt payscale.

Rfb, I was posting on the wives board. I sent you a copy of the card that I made for them, which I'll also put on the pilots board. Do be advised that the dive boat in the picture was rented w/AF wages, and shared w/another family. It was taken during our assignment in Egypt. We can't afford to do that now.

Now off to do my stay-home mom job, which prompts this question: If I were paid to take care of my children and clean the house, would I then be considered to be "working"? Just wondering....

Have a good day guys,
Netjetwife

 

[niteflyr]

Talk about twisting. I was merely showing where you were putting down anyone who votes yes, as you have repeatedly. I did NOT say that the pay is ok, so whatever sent you off on that tangent I don't know. I said before, if this TA is an improvement financially and or schedule wise for someone and they vote yes, then that is their perogative. They are not in need of "re-educating" or lacking in anything, they can read and decide for themselves. As for take home recurrents we would not be the first to do this either so I don't see why everyone is so shocked to see it and jump all over the MEC for it.

 

[PseudoName]

For the company to expect the pilots to work for free (doing part of recurrent at home without pay) is totally UNFAIR!

Are you kidding me?? On the next contract you will want them to get paid anytime a NJA pilot sees an airplane or thinks about aviation.

Netjetwife, go ahead and get your StrongUnion to make this molehill into a mountain. NJA is not doing this for their benefit, it's to allow the pilots to get a head start on their studying (as most companies do). I am sure NJA will be glad to backoff and quit giving the take home recurrent homework. In turn, they will teach via the firehose method during recurrent in CMH in the same amount of time mandated by the FAA.

You say studying without compensation is totally UNFAIR? I say it's part of being a professional pilot. I knew that when I signed up for this gig!

Anyone else agree with me?

 

[freightdogfred]

Heavyset, He turned down FedEX, and United to go to American. Fantastic resume/pilot---has DFC from Desert Storm. Turned down JetBlue for NetJets, Sure we have friends at all the places, but we need to stay in Colorado Springs for family reasons, and commute is a pain. Took NJs based on theory that could live anywhere we want...

Jeez....For all his skill and bravery, being fighter jock and whatnot, seems like he's made some **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** poor decisions...(passing up FedEx?) If ya ask me, he's not lookin quite so smart. Like ya said, you're still in Colo springs like ya wanted to be, so I guess ya both need ta suck it up, and play the cards ya got.

This bizness don't come with a crystal ball...

 

[Starman]

NJA is not doing this for their benefit, it's to allow the pilots to get a head start on their studying (as most companies do).


...

You say studying without compensation is totally UNFAIR? I say it's part of being a professional pilot. I knew that when I signed up for this gig!

Not even close to being the truth. They want to have you actually do FAA mandated training at home on your own time on your computer. That is the rub.

I don't mind doing it but it needs to count as duty. If they want me to spend 4-6 hours on my computer doing a couple of online classes, give me a day off the schedule at the start or end of a tour to do it. Either that or pay me an extended day during that month. I expect to be paid for work I do for the company.

This is all about the company trying to save bucks by not having you do this training in Columbus on a work day. If you actually read the TA, you'd know that.

 

[NJAowner]

Staying Current

I do not know how much time you are being asked to do at home but many people stay current at home and don't get paid for it.

Accountants, lawyers, doctors all read many, many journals and articles to stay current. Plus have to take continuing education to keep licenses current (and many don't get paid extra -- it is done on a saturday). Teachers grade papers at home. In other words, many people work at home wither because they want to or have to stay current. They just don't call it "re"-current.

Fly safe.

 

[rajflyboy]

I prefer to do the recurrent at home.

Its a win win situation for me and for the company! I get to stay at home and do the training instead of commuting to Columbus and spending more time in a hotel.

The company saves money on Hotels, Airlines, Instructors.

A win win situation for all!

No brainer in my book!

 

[underdog]

I do not know how much time you are being asked to do at home but many people stay current at home and don't get paid for it.

Accountants, lawyers, doctors all read many, many journals and articles to stay current. Plus have to take continuing education to keep licenses current (and many don't get paid extra -- it is done on a saturday). Teachers grade papers at home. In other words, many people work at home wither because they want to or have to stay current. They just don't call it "re"-current.

Fly safe.

Seems like a lot of the posters here think they deserve an extra payment anytime the company calls them at home.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Its basic math . if your company is losing 100's of millions and you take a huge raise your going to go into bankrupcy.


3rd grade math

Well, here's the sticky part... UAL was actually profitable prior to the merger attempt. The industry was different. Your point is valid in 2004 but not in 2000.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Wake up. SHE IS AN EMPLOYEES SPOUSE. Imagine if all labor-management relations were dictated by spouses showing up at your workplace.

The Netjets pilots that kiss up to her on this forum day in and day out should be embarrased that she is allowed to push HER agenda here.

Les Paul

Actually her input is quite welcome. Her input is at the very heart of what Family Awareness efforts from the Fam Awareness Committee are about. This situation that NJA and it's pilots are in isn't about just the pilots making decisions for their whole family. It's about a family unit (part of which includes a pilot who happens to be a pilot for NJA) making decisions as a whole.

There are more invloved in this fight than just 1,903 pilots.

 

[rajflyboy]

Netjetwife can say whatever she wants and we have the right to disagree as well!

 

[netjetwife]

Still not getting it , I see...

Talk about twisting. I was merely showing where you were putting down anyone who votes yes, as you have repeatedly. I did NOT say that the pay is ok, so whatever sent you off on that tangent I don't know. I said before, if this TA is an improvement financially and or schedule wise for someone and they vote yes, then that is their perogative. They are not in need of "re-educating" or lacking in anything, they can read and decide for themselves. As for take home recurrents we would not be the first to do this either so I don't see why everyone is so shocked to see it and jump all over the MEC for it.

Let's try this again. You can not prove or say truthfully, that I put others down. It doesn't happen--I don't do that. Saying that I have read/heard fear and selfishness is NOT a put down; it is stating the facts. Those pilots and wives are still on my email list and/or wives board. We have agreed to disagree, respectfully.

I will explain my "tangent": You had quoted me and I was defending my position about standing up for what is right--explaining how I've spoken to some who do not care about those things so glaringly unfair/wrong. Fear=please don't rock the boat, just be happy your husband has a job. Even if a pot scrubber in a VA Hospital makes more than my husband? Garbage collectors, etc? Fear blinds them to seeing an injustice. Selfish=let's just take the money and run! What about those that are seat locked? What about those that want to fight for a job they enjoy doing? What about the work rules YOU vote for and leave others behind to deal with? The "it works for me crowd" don't care to hear "whining" like that. I try to stick to the issues and am constantly slammed for daring to speak up at all.

SU, and other like minded individuals, are not RE educating pilots/wives. We have tried to EDUCATE those that didn't bother to read the TA, and/or take part in a debate of the issues. It is not uncommon to speak to others who know very little about the current situation. I've run into it on the phone, my husband on the road. Other pilots report the same experience in their posts, PMs, and phone calls. StrongUnion is in the process of building a cohesive unit that reflects the concerns of the majority. I, and many others, will be glad when the TA vote proves what most of the pilots want. My fervent wish is to see the pilotforce pull together--regardless of how each voted--and concentrate on the next TA, determined to get a contract that truly will be a win-win situation, which EVERYONE can live with.

Recurrent for free: I have said before that the IDEA has merit; the proposal in the TA does not. To offer a wage that fails to catch the pilot up to inflation on the last contract --hurts families. To turn around and demand free labor at those subpar salaries, is adding "insult to injury". Yes I do know the system is used by other companies and other professionals. I watched my husband do things like that throughout his AF career, but we didn't view his salary as an insult, either. As one of our Gateway pilots and I discussed, we have no problem with them doing it at home--as long as the salary reflects the work.

 

[gunfyter]

I do not know how much time you are being asked to do at home but many people stay current at home and don't get paid for it.

Accountants, lawyers, doctors all read many, many journals and articles to stay current. Plus have to take continuing education to keep licenses current (and many don't get paid extra -- it is done on a saturday). Teachers grade papers at home. In other words, many people work at home wither because they want to or have to stay current. They just don't call it "re"-current.

Fly safe.

Thats fine... for people who are PAID like professionals.

 

[netjetwife]

Actually her input is quite welcome. Her input is at the very heart of what Family Awareness efforts from the Fam Awareness Committee are about. This situation that NJA and it's pilots are in isn't about just the pilots making decisions for their whole family. It's about a family unit (part of which includes a pilot who happens to be a pilot for NJA) making decisions as a whole.

There are more invloved in this fight than just 1,903 pilots.

Flylow22, I couldn't have said it better myself! However--I did bring my box of cards with me....looking now....yes, there it is! The one with a picture of our two youngest children. There are 5 of us: 1 pilot, 1 stayhome mom, 1 college student and 2 that pretend to be pilots, but only on special occassions.

http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=103885921&m=1932&source=bma999

 

[rajflyboy]

With a 7 on 7 off schedule. There will be no resemblance of a normal family life!

5 on 5 off.... is what we need

 

[rajflyboy]

FLYLOW

United was profitable before the Contract......... not after. End of story!

 

[Publishers]

As to United, you were both right. It was profitable before the contract,, however, there business was in a period of steep decline as high yield business traffic was departing in droves over the slow down and poor service.

The contract was forced upon the company as the best of two evils. Standing by and losing their customers or paying through the nose. They took the latter not realizing that things were going to get ugly in the economy, terrorism, and fare wars.

You might not like the 7 on 7 off but it seems to me that is a deal that would be great for family time. The rest of us get 5.5 10 to 11 hour days and 1.5 days off. I go straight from work to baseball most nights and so get home at 10pm.

The computer and home deal sounded good to me. No trip to Columbus and time away would be plenty to stay up to snuff. In the end, it is my license, my life in the plane, my carrer I am investing in.

 

[rajflyboy]

F16 time doesn't mean much in the civilian world. In professional civilian aviation we fly in the weather on a schedule and we fly as a crew.

Much different flying than yanking and banking in an F16 all by your lonesome. And oh yeah..... passenger ride is important out here.... no yanking and banking in a corporate jet with pax in the back.

 

[netjetwife]

Looking around....Rfb, are those F16 comments directed at me? I can answer them, you know. Europe had terrible weather, Germany isn't know to be a land of sunshine. LOTS of flying in the weather there....he got very good at it. Formation flying IS a team effort, as is refueling in the air. I got to be in the tanker to watch that once (with other wives) very impressive! Trainer planes have 2 seats and are also used to give dignitaries and other important px rides. Lots more to F16 flying than yanking and banking. The airlines have a formula they use to convert fighter time to compare the applications. It has never been seen as anything other than an asset. Those pilots are very fast thinkers as well as flyers--and have proven that many times over.

I'll vote for that 5&5 over the 7&7 any time. One of my big gripes w/the MEC--not surveying the pilotforce and bragging about 7/7 for ALL--regardless of being told that not ALL want that schedule.