Reality Check for NetJets Pilots

[njwingman]

Really? I understand that NetJet pilots want 5 year Captain pay to be around 100K and F/O pay starting around 40K. In order to provide an aircraft with a full crew, that would mean NetJets would be paying a minimum of 280K in crew salaries for each aircraft (7/7 schedule, 2 Capts @ 100K ea, 2 F/Os @ 40K ea to cover the airplane = 280K).

Normal crew compliments for business aircraft is 3 pilots per airplane....not 4! So, please tell me how the NetJets desire is not unrealistic.

So, hypothetically, PseudoName, if crew salaries were $280,000/AC, what would you expect the revenues generated by that aircraft to be? Just kind of curious..since we're talking about costs, we ought to look at revenues.

 

[PseudoName]

So, hypothetically, PseudoName, if crew salaries were $280,000/AC, what would you expect the revenues generated by that aircraft to be? Just kind of curious..since we're talking about costs, we ought to look at revenues.

Look at revenues?? Yep, every NetJet aircraft is a money making machine. I have seen what NetJets charge the owners just to have access to fleet, not to mention the inflated hourly charge to fly on the airplane. It is INSANE!!

Go ahead, demand that your pay increase is in direct proportion to the increase in revenues since your last contract. I think we all know of a few pilot groups whose union demanded the same thing and got it. I just wish I could think which companies those pilots worked for.....hmm......oh yeah, didn't this happen at United and Delta?? Look at what is going on now with the pay scales over there, not to mention the company stability. Do you want the same thing to happen to NetJets?

 

[njwingman]

I wasn't throwing rocks, Pseudoname, honest. I just wanted your opinion.

I didn't mean to imply that we should demand an increase in salaries based on increases in revenues since the last contract. What do you think the annual aircraft revenue should be in order to conservatively support $280,000 in annual salary expense?

To ask the question another way, what is the percentage of annual aircraft revenue allocated to pilot salaries at your company? I'm sincerely seeking some additional information here.

 

[PseudoName]

I wasn't throwing rocks, Pseudoname, honest. I just wanted your opinion.

I didn't mean to imply that we should demand an increase in salaries based on increases in revenues since the last contract. What do you think the annual aircraft revenue should be in order to conservatively support $280,000 in annual salary expense?

To ask the question another way, what is the percentage of annual aircraft revenue allocated to pilot salaries at your company? I'm sincerely seeking some additional information here.

Holy Cow! I am not used to not having rocks thown at me on this board. Finally!

I wish I knew the percentage of revenue allocated to pilot salaries. All I know is that our company pays near NBAA wages (or over, depending on how good of a negotiator you are when getting hired). When they close the books at the end of the year, and there is money left over, we get a nice profit sharing check.

 

[rajflyboy]

Wheres Netjetwife today? I'm surprised she hasn't chimed in yet!

 

[niteflyr]

"having an exchange w/pilots and/or wives that are too afraid to stand up for what is clearly right."
** NJA Wife 10-25-04

"The lack of self-worth, exhibited by some, never ceases to amaze me."
** NJA Wife 10-24-04

What words exactly was I putting in your mouth? Sure your name isn't Kerry??

 

[netjetwife]

Absolutely, you twisted what I said, just as you are here. I don't think yes voters are worthless! Apparently, I think their skills are worth more than they, themselves, do. I urge ALL pilots that are underpaid to stand up for themselves at ALL companies. I place a high value on their airmanship, as I do my husband's. That FOs at NJA qualify for gov't assistance is definitely WRONG! For the company to expect the pilots to work for free (doing part of recurrent at home without pay) is totally UNFAIR! That some FAs make more than some of the pilots is UNJUST! There are some pilots and their wives who DO SAY we shouldn't "rock the boat"....regardless of these FACTS. Hence, my statement that they are too afraid to stand up for what is right. Their emails and phone calls exhibit a lot of fear/worry about the pilots losing their jobs if they ask for a living wage. It MUST be noted, though, that NONE of them are on FO pay, or even the lower Cpt payscale.

Rfb, I was posting on the wives board. I sent you a copy of the card that I made for them, which I'll also put on the pilots board. Do be advised that the dive boat in the picture was rented w/AF wages, and shared w/another family. It was taken during our assignment in Egypt. We can't afford to do that now.

Now off to do my stay-home mom job, which prompts this question: If I were paid to take care of my children and clean the house, would I then be considered to be "working"? Just wondering....

Have a good day guys,
Netjetwife

 

[niteflyr]

Talk about twisting. I was merely showing where you were putting down anyone who votes yes, as you have repeatedly. I did NOT say that the pay is ok, so whatever sent you off on that tangent I don't know. I said before, if this TA is an improvement financially and or schedule wise for someone and they vote yes, then that is their perogative. They are not in need of "re-educating" or lacking in anything, they can read and decide for themselves. As for take home recurrents we would not be the first to do this either so I don't see why everyone is so shocked to see it and jump all over the MEC for it.

 

[PseudoName]

For the company to expect the pilots to work for free (doing part of recurrent at home without pay) is totally UNFAIR!

Are you kidding me?? On the next contract you will want them to get paid anytime a NJA pilot sees an airplane or thinks about aviation.

Netjetwife, go ahead and get your StrongUnion to make this molehill into a mountain. NJA is not doing this for their benefit, it's to allow the pilots to get a head start on their studying (as most companies do). I am sure NJA will be glad to backoff and quit giving the take home recurrent homework. In turn, they will teach via the firehose method during recurrent in CMH in the same amount of time mandated by the FAA.

You say studying without compensation is totally UNFAIR? I say it's part of being a professional pilot. I knew that when I signed up for this gig!

Anyone else agree with me?

 

[freightdogfred]

Heavyset, He turned down FedEX, and United to go to American. Fantastic resume/pilot---has DFC from Desert Storm. Turned down JetBlue for NetJets, Sure we have friends at all the places, but we need to stay in Colorado Springs for family reasons, and commute is a pain. Took NJs based on theory that could live anywhere we want...

Jeez....For all his skill and bravery, being fighter jock and whatnot, seems like he's made some **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** poor decisions...(passing up FedEx?) If ya ask me, he's not lookin quite so smart. Like ya said, you're still in Colo springs like ya wanted to be, so I guess ya both need ta suck it up, and play the cards ya got.

This bizness don't come with a crystal ball...

 

[Starman]

NJA is not doing this for their benefit, it's to allow the pilots to get a head start on their studying (as most companies do).


...

You say studying without compensation is totally UNFAIR? I say it's part of being a professional pilot. I knew that when I signed up for this gig!

Not even close to being the truth. They want to have you actually do FAA mandated training at home on your own time on your computer. That is the rub.

I don't mind doing it but it needs to count as duty. If they want me to spend 4-6 hours on my computer doing a couple of online classes, give me a day off the schedule at the start or end of a tour to do it. Either that or pay me an extended day during that month. I expect to be paid for work I do for the company.

This is all about the company trying to save bucks by not having you do this training in Columbus on a work day. If you actually read the TA, you'd know that.

 

[NJAowner]

Staying Current

I do not know how much time you are being asked to do at home but many people stay current at home and don't get paid for it.

Accountants, lawyers, doctors all read many, many journals and articles to stay current. Plus have to take continuing education to keep licenses current (and many don't get paid extra -- it is done on a saturday). Teachers grade papers at home. In other words, many people work at home wither because they want to or have to stay current. They just don't call it "re"-current.

Fly safe.

 

[rajflyboy]

I prefer to do the recurrent at home.

Its a win win situation for me and for the company! I get to stay at home and do the training instead of commuting to Columbus and spending more time in a hotel.

The company saves money on Hotels, Airlines, Instructors.

A win win situation for all!

No brainer in my book!

 

[underdog]

I do not know how much time you are being asked to do at home but many people stay current at home and don't get paid for it.

Accountants, lawyers, doctors all read many, many journals and articles to stay current. Plus have to take continuing education to keep licenses current (and many don't get paid extra -- it is done on a saturday). Teachers grade papers at home. In other words, many people work at home wither because they want to or have to stay current. They just don't call it "re"-current.

Fly safe.

Seems like a lot of the posters here think they deserve an extra payment anytime the company calls them at home.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Its basic math . if your company is losing 100's of millions and you take a huge raise your going to go into bankrupcy.


3rd grade math

Well, here's the sticky part... UAL was actually profitable prior to the merger attempt. The industry was different. Your point is valid in 2004 but not in 2000.