Reality Check for NetJets Pilots

[SenorSpielbergo]

"Ohhh, I wanna drive the Zamboni...." everyone, sing along!

 

[Brett Hull]

The New York Rangers play 44 games at home (41 regular season, 3 preseason). Overtime for the playoffs....

"Ohhh, I wanna drive the Zamboni...."

Just don't hold out for driving it at a Rangers playoffs game. You may never get the chance!

 

[Publishers]

right

You are right diesel, I don't need to know anything about it to have employed a bunch of them.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Send me your resume... I will walk it in to Derinda and put in a good word for you with the Chief Pilot. I hate to see you suffer any longer on poor pay, bad hotels, and having to file your own flight releases.

Okay Gun, you walk in his resume but also have him write himself a letter of rec detailing what a hard worker he is; I'll sign it.

I can't stand seeing someone who has it as hard as he. Anyone else who can write a letter? We gotta get this fella hired. He shouldn't have to file his own flight plans.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Surely Snake and Griz could see it in their hearts to make an exception with respect to applying while this TA is still floating .

Will our new health insurance cover mental illness? Anyone??

 

[Snakeplt]

I will walk your resume' in PERSONALLY and do whatever it takes to get you hired here. You are ABSOLUTELY MADE for this job and I think you need to get your ass over here and start working YESTERDAY !!! Filing your own flight plans....PHEWWWY.... COME ON OVER !!!

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Filing your own flight plans....PHEWWWY.... COME ON OVER !!!

But, look how spring loaded he'll be for the next time Intelijunk crashes. He won't have to wait for the page, his flight plan will already be filed.

 

[DBCOOPER]

Wow Les Paul. Is it CO, AA, or.....let me guess, UAL??? Please tell, b/c if it is UAL, I would love to know where you will go to DEMAND superior pay when your airline folds.

I've flown with guys like you before. You still think you're in the military. You think that because you flew in the military, that you DESERVE your job at the airline. The guys that have flown to my right AND left over the years with military backgrounds - with attitudes/egos like yours, are usually very BAD airline pilots. (Pay attention to the attitudes/egos part folks, not all military.)
I think everyone here can assume for themselves where you fall. You are a well rounded embarrassment to my profession.

As far as you Netjets folks go.....good luck. Don't know if you will get everything you're asking for, but I hope that you get something. In all honesty, i hope that your husband is somewhat happy just to have a flying job at all. There are many very good, qualified pilots out there furloughed that are hoping for an opportunity just to fly again...period. Your husband should be collecting more money, but atleast he's current. Good luck.

 

[netjetwife]

Thank you DBC, for recognizing that all former military pilots are NOT alike and for your support. Yes, my husband is happy to be flying, but cannot continue to do so at these wages (present and TA) and justify the sacrifices made for the job. If the contract at NJA makes it worth it--good, he gets to do a job he enjoys. If not--he either flies elsewhere for more, or uses other skills and is home every night. There IS potential at NJA and the fight IS worth it. Getting 116 FOs bypass pay because of a show of solidarity by the pilots AND their wives, proves that the will to improve the conditions there DOES exist and is bearing fruit. NJW

 

[DBCOOPER]

NJW- What is the current state of the negotiations there? I have many friends that began flying at Netjets four or five years ago. They got in during the hiring boom and all upgraded within a year with the company. I've never heard anything but good things from them. The last I heard from one of them was in early summer, he said that the new contract should be ratified by now.....has the company walked away from the table??

 

[netjetwife]

DBC, The company did not walk away from the table. The pilots are in the process of walking away (voting down) the insulting (flawed in all areas, not just pay)TA that the inept MEC had the gall to present to the pilots. We/they are also in the process of trying to switch leaders, but that is a huge can of worms--bylaws broken--and many pilots have yet to receive their ballots (my husband included) despite weeks of waiting! Those that have (in spite of outdated postage) were not sent the secret envelopes. Our unofficial leaders are working w/the IBT to sort thru the mess the Local has created. They have collected over 1000 petitions to separate from 284--not IBT. The pilots want to control their own destinies and finances. There is now a huge groundswell of unity that cannot be silenced. There is also a great irony in the proximity of Halloween and the "tricks" that have been played on the pilots as they await their "treat"--our new AND TRUE MEC, StrongUnion--a panel of real leaders backed by many volunteers and an active, vocal membership.

Your friends had good timing, btw. My husband has been there 20 months and there is no upgrade in sight yet. The pilots supported the FO campaign to have senior pilots withhold their bids, though. With fantastic results--116 FOs will receive bypass pay! How's that for unity?!

Thanks for asking. Best of luck to you and your family,
LB/NJW

PS I just realized that I'd already told you the good news about the FOs getting bypass pay...lol. Sorry, guess you can tell that I'm very happy about that, and it's not just the money! That kind of unity is something to be proud of! NJW

 

[Les Paul]

WE, OUR, The Pilots, MEC, WE, OUR US, ME

Remind us again what aircraft you fly for Netjets.

Oh, that right... you don't. In fact you don't even work there, but you sure have the big mouth to proclaim whatever YOU feel is right.

Once again, putting YOUR words on the internet, pretending YOU work at Netjets, pretending YOU pay dues, pretending you have a clue, speaking for the pilot group as a whole.

Too bad Netjets MEC doesn't come down on your husband for you speaking as if you are in charge, and have the authority to tell the internet world how the pilots think, and continually speaking for them.

Once again....glad to see you pulling your weight around the house doing something PRODUCTIVE.....

Les Paul

 

[DBCOOPER]

I've got to hand it to you. I would assume that you used to be an airline pilot union leader in your last life. I commend you for educating yourself on the ways of the industry. You've obviously seen it all through your husband.....military flying, airline flying, and now the corporate side of things. The problem with flying these days is that things just aren't going right anywhere. My brother is a Naval Aviator about to deploy on the carrier for atleast 6 months...again. He just got back a year ago, now he's leaving again, even though the Navy told him it would be atleast 2 before he would leave for another cruise, if at all. He's not happy, infact he said the morale around the base is at an all time low, but he signed up for the Navy knowing full well what he was getting into. - My father has 1.5 years left in the airline industry. He's had a great career up until Sept. 11th. Over the last 2 years he has taken a 48% pay cut. While he should be going out on cloud 9 after 28 years of service with USAirways, instead he will get less than half of what his retirement was supposed to be, and he is now making less than he was 15 years ago on a smaller piece of equipment. Talk about a kick in the ass, hugh? You talk about some upset wives, my mom and all of her friends back in N.C. are replanning their "golden years" as we speak. If I didn't like to fly so much, I think I would find another line of work. My friends tell me I'm lucky that I have a solid retirement plan right now, well after what I saw happen to pops, I hate to say I don't count on seeing that in 30 years!

You just can't count on anything anymore, you can fight for it.....and when you think you've got it....it's gone. It's just the way things are heading. I hate to sound gloomy, but that's just the way it is. Believe me, I hope things turn around...I have many years left in this industry!

For the record, I hope that NetJets gets what they are looking for, as I said..I have friends there. Did I read somewhere that they are asking that a Citation Capt. should be compensated 100K/year?? If so, that IS excessive for flying a small biz jet. I'm going to call my friends there and find out more about what the pilots are asking for. To tell you the truth, I had no idea things were so bad over there. Guess I need to catch up. Thanks for the info......good luck.

 

[netjetwife]

Where is the balance?

DBC, you sound gloomy because the picture IS rather dark. That's tough for sure! My husband shares your opinion that the aviation industry, as a whole, is in sad shape. He blames a lot of it on artifically-low priced tickets. He tells me the fares from Denver aren't much higher than he was paying as a cadet to go home on leave from the USAFA. And that was back in the late 70s-early 80s! I think that the unjustifiably high salaries often seen in upper management have played a role as well. I know that we were disgusted by the figures that came out during AA's problems right after 9-11. They were seeking cuts to pilots' wages and retirements while protecting their own. The salary of just one VP would have kept many of the newly -hired pilots like my husband on the payroll. Infuriating!

IMHO, pilots throughout the industry need to stand up and speak out--educate the populace. Why should the pilots in this country help to subsidise ticket prices for the average flyer? Everything else costs more than it did 25 yrs ago. It isn't unreasonable to expect airfares to be adjusted accordingly. I have a big problem with any company that acts like AA did, and I think that the average American would too, if the facts were brought out. Especially if the situation were to come to light while ticket prices were being raised substantially. I'd also like to see more balance among the pilots'wages throughout aviation. I know that a one wage for all approach is not realistic, but surely the huge pay gaps aren't justified, either. A salary correction of that magnitude will take time, of course. Those at the top end nearing retirement, like your father, should be treated fairly. Anything less, is a breach of faith and unethical in my book. Does anyone think for a minute that the wives of those "fatcats" in upper management are "replanning THEIR golden years, as we speak"?? Are THEIR husbands making less than they did 15 years ago???

Your brother's situation sounds disturbingly familiar. My husband's AF staff job (has it been 10 yrs already?!) was to manage assignments for Rated Officers in USAFE, while working hand-in-hand with his counterparts in the other commands. He detected an alarming trend which pointed to a looming shortage down the road. The AF had badly mismanaged the pilotforce, cutting back too deeply after the cold war and RIFing too many pilots in the drawdown. (One of which is currently flying for NJA). My husband made numerous presentations, complete with charts, to the 4star generals, but they refused to change the training numbers. In short, they didn't want to rock the (political) boat. My husband's briefings clearly showed that AF pilots would be stretched very thin in years ahead because they weren't producing enough pilots at that time. The AF leaders based their decisions on the politics of the time instead of the needs of the country. They told my husband the money wasn't there. And he couldn't convince them to ask for more. I wouldn't be surprised if his counterparts in the Navy ran into the same problem. We were already seeing signs of his "predictions" coming true when he retired from the AF.

You're right, it isn't just a NJ nightmare, but a bad dream that is far too real and shared by way too many pilots. That said, I still believe that it doesn't have to be this way. The pilots at NJA have woken up to the realization that they must take charge of their own destinies. I highly encourage other pilots to do the same; I wholeheartedly support those that are!

DBC, last time I expressed a general message of support for your family. Now that I know a little more of their situation, I'd like you to pass this card on to your mother for me, please. I fervently hope that things improve for you and your family. NJW http://www.bluemountain.com/view.pd?i=103562830&m=1932&source=bma999

 

[netjetwife]

Looks like you need some editing help, Les Paul.

Remind us again what aircraft you fly for Netjets.

Oh, that right... you don't. In fact you don't even work there, but you sure have the big mouth to proclaim whatever YOU feel is right.

Once again, putting YOUR words on the internet, pretending YOU work at Netjets, pretending YOU pay dues, pretending you have a clue, speaking for the pilot group as a whole.

Too bad Netjets MEC doesn't come down on your husband for you speaking as if you are in charge, and have the authority to tell the internet world how the pilots think, and continually speaking for them.

Once again....glad to see you pulling your weight around the house doing something PRODUCTIVE.....

Les Paul

My husband flies the Excel and is a part of the StrongUnion organization which has put forward a slate for the MEC election. They have been leading the pilots for sometime. We are only waiting for the current inept 5 to step down w/dignity and/or be overwhelmingly voted out of office. Our SU leaders have publicly encouraged the involvement of the spouses and have thanked me, personally, for my efforts.

Pretending to work at NetJets? What is it about the word "wife" that confuses you?

Pretending that I pay dues? I don't---WE do. A married couple's assets are legally shared, as are the debts.

Speaking for the pilot group as a whole? I DO REFLECT the views of the majority and receive a lot of support for speaking up about the issues.

Pretending I have a clue? I am confidently leaving that for the readers of this board to decide. By the way, you need to check your grammar/spelling in your 2nd sentence...."Oh, that right... you don't." Mistakes like that make one appear uneducated, in other words, clueless.

Doing something PRODUCTIVE? Yes, I have been-- thanks for noticing. You might try posting the same....

 

[Heathen]

"Pretending I have a clue? I am confidently leaving that for the readers of this board to decide."
Quote, Netjetwife.


Sorry lady, you lose. Les Paul hit all the key points and plus he did it with humor.
Now go be a good NJW and cater to your man.

 

[Les Paul]

Noodejetwife:

My husband flies the Excel and is a part of the StrongUnion organization which has put forward a slate for the MEC election. They have been leading the pilots for sometime. We are only waiting for the current inept 5 to step down w/dignity and/or be overwhelmingly voted out of office. Our SU leaders have publicly encouraged the involvement of the spouses and have thanked me, personally, for my efforts.

The only rational part of your latest dribble here is "MY HUSBAND FLIES THE EXCEL". The "WE" "OUR" and "MY EFFORTS" shows you are delusional and living as if you are the one in the family with talent and career.

Pretending to work at NetJets? What is it about the word "wife" that confuses you?.

That is a question that everyone should be asking of YOU. What part of WIFE don't YOU understand?

Pretending that I pay dues? I don't---WE do. A married couple's assets are legally shared, as are the debts.?.

Soooo..... you aren't pretending you pay dues... you are not flat out telling all of us that in fact you DO pay dues. How scary...

Speaking for the pilot group as a whole? I DO REFLECT the views of the majority and receive a lot of support for speaking up about the issues.

NO.... you DO NOT reflect the view of the majority. Again... how long have you been a pilot? What you say may be true.... but you don't WORK there so how would you know? You are simply repeating what you believe the REAL people who actually WORK feel, and that accounts for NOTHING. Your delusional fantasy has become chronic....

Pretending I have a clue? I am confidently leaving that for the readers of this board to decide. By the way, you need to check your grammar/spelling in your 2nd sentence...."Oh, that right... you don't." Mistakes like that make one appear uneducated, in other words, clueless..

LOL!! Oh believe me... the readers have decided!! LOL!! It is great watching a delusional wannabe try and and take part. It is pure enjoyment for us!!

Because I don't have time to spend hundreds of hours to be glued to my computer, I don't always proofread my posts. That suddenly makes me clueless? No... that means I'm not a twinkie eating, computer addicted loser, who is escaping their pathetic, unfulfilled life as a no career, no talent spouse, by pretending to be something YOU admit you're not, but refuse or are incapable to realize.

Les Paul

PS Please stop sending me PM's... I will not call and talk to you... quite frankly you scare me.

 

[Publishers]

airline business

Not satisfied to make pronouncement after pronouncement about Netjets and their taking back their future destinies, she now takes on the Air Force and Airlines.

Of course, we are not going to recognize that Southwest Airlines, the leader in low cost tickets and efficient service has managed to make a profit for a zillion straight quarters that pleased their investor community. Then again, that is what it is all about-- not how many pilots they employ. The American public should pay more so the oppressed airline pilots can make a decent living.

Equally apparent, she does not like the way the Air Force operates and that should be turned over to her husband and her for thier analysis and suggestions.

Now I am sure that the American public, if educated by our pilot wife, would welcome the opportunity to pay more for tickets so that combined jumbo jet crew can make more. Secondly, we ought to guarantee that the companies do not go under or get in trouble where they cannot pay wages at a certain level.

The fact that many Americans make no where near what they used to on an adjusted level is not relevant. It should not be relevant that some union contracts have severely hurt the golden goose that provided it. No doubt out Air Force and Naval aviation would be better if they had bypassed those generals and gone to congress.

Netjets is a bad dream and they no doubt do not pay you what they said when you went to work there, oops, your husband went to work there. Of course, they are fairly successful by todays standards and have employed a good number of pilots when the rest of the world was letting people go. The pilot staff does get to live in a variety of spots, they get hard days off, they stay in reasonable accomodations, fly the best and newest equipment that is maintained to a high standard, have professional staffs available to flight plan and do weather, have the opportunity to meet some of the more successsful people in this country, and do not seem to have to worry about this going away tomorrow. 20 months is certainly a long time to wait for an upgrade, I can give you a list of regional carriers that would agree to that.

The best thing about this country is that there no slavery. Her husband can walk in the door and leave any time for one of the greener pastures. It would take Netjets about a nano second to replace them from the pile of people waiting at the door.

 

[gunfyter]

It would take Netjets about a nano second to replace them from the pile of people waiting at the door.

You couldn't know how funny that really is unless you were here to witness the "Street Captain" program....

 

[Publishers]

Well if they run out of resumes, I have three or four hundred I can let them borrow.