Reality Check for NetJets Pilots

[VmaxFlyR]

Really? Well since you have gone to great lengths in contributing your well thought out post to this board, I wil surely agree with you.

Here's more food for thought......If you take the magic 5 year Captain 100K payscale for NetJets, calculate the amount paid daily for that pilot to fly or be on-call, then take that rate times the average days a year a charter/corporate pilot works.....well the figure is somewhere around 150K.

150K per year for a charter/corporate pilot salary?? Yeah, right. Maybe only Fortune 500 flight departments, Chief Pilots, managers, etc.....but not a realistic salary for a 5th year pilot at any company. Yes, I would love to put that kind of money in my bank account, but come on, that's just pure greed!

Not sure you should be lumping charter and corporate pilots togather, jobs and pay aren't the same...

BTW, on a day/hourly comparison, 5 year 100k NJA would be more like $115k for the purposes of your post. Few of the corporate guys I know put in the duty time it seems the NJA folks put in, this with entry salaries equal or better than the proposed 5 year Captain pay grade at NJA.

But then, charter comparisons could be very different considering all the "on call" duty time.

 

[PseudoName]

VmaxFlyr....I agree there is a difference in charter vs corporate pilots. From now on I will just talk about charter pilots....which are closer to NetJet pilots and who make less than your corporate Part 91 pilots. Comparing the salaries and job duties of a charter pilot will make the pay and job duties of a NetJet pilot look even better. Where in the business aviation sector can you find a flying job that guarantees at least 14 days off per month where you are not on call, doing office duties, on the pager or phone!!!

 

[VmaxFlyR]

VmaxFlyr....I agree there is a difference in charter vs corporate pilots. From now on I will just talk about charter pilots....which are closer to NetJet pilots and who make less than your corporate Part 91 pilots. Comparing the salaries and job duties of a charter pilot will make the pay and job duties of a NetJet pilot look even better. Where in the business aviation sector can you find a flying job that guarantees at least 14 days off per month where you are not on call, doing office duties, on the pager or phone!!!

With corporate pilots getting at least 10 days off per month (many more "guaranteed days" than 135 pilots), and NJA pilots expected to provide a level of service equal to or exceeding those of their corporate counterparts, I'd argue that NJA pilots SHOULD be more closely compared to the corporate folks.

Most corporate gigs will do 3-4 legs per day on the "occassional HIGH side," which would probably be an average day at NJA I'd guess, with many corporate days consisting of 1 leg-to the hotel-then 1 leg back to the base a day or two later.

I'd guess that 3-4 legs every day for those days that the chater folks fly would also be on the High Side, so the NJA pilots clearly fly more than any of the previously mentioned other groups.

What's that worth? Time will tell...

 

[Number$Cruncher]

....After flying them thru the storms of the east coast at night, safely to their destination,( in spite of the distractions),arranging for their limo, and unloading their luggage my husband watched them tip everyone on the line BUT the pilots.

Y'might want to be careful what you wish for. Most fractional contracts with the owners specifically prohibit offering gratuities to the flight crews. Any pilot or FA accepting a tip might find him/herself on the short end of a pink slip.

As sympathetic as I am to the very low wages NetJets offers in the first few years, no one forced anyone to take the job.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

For the 2nd time---pay attention. pls.. The NetJets job was based on the business model, the fact that Buffet had recently purchaed the company and that the contract had been under negotiations for one year already. He took a calculated risk, that the contract would pan out. The business angle is NOT the problem---the money is there. This TA is the FIRST offer and was done by a bad MEC. Things will change.

You've mentioned a few things that just don't ring true. You're not alone, but I can't help but point them out.

1.) Buffett doesn't own BH, he runs it. He owns some of it, as a shareholder, but nowhere near a majority take.
2.) The fact that NJ has 75% market share (it doesn't) has absolutely no impact on its profitability. American, Delta, US Airways and United together have a very big chunk of the domestic airline traffic, but none of them make a dime. Revenue does not equal (or even provide a hint of) profit.
3.) The contract will almost certainly pass. Not definitely, but almost certainly.
4.) "The money is there." Where, exactly? With the owners? They will pay only as much as they believe the NJ service is worth, no more. If NJ has to pay the pilots more and must raise prices to try to cover the increase, the owners will go along with it only so far as they believe the service merits a premium over what other fractionals charge. That is basic business. If by saying "the money is there" you mean at Berkshire Hathaway, why exactly would they give the money to the pilots if they didn't have to? They've been able to get enough pilots, and they always will. NetJets is not yet returning any meaningful profit to BH or its shareholders, and even if it were, the best pilots can hope for is a profit sharing deal. The supply of willing pilots will always exceed the demand; the only bottleneck that will be faced is the training pipeline capacity.

 

[Live4flyng]

....After flying them thru the storms of the east coast at night, safely to their destination,( in spite of the distractions),arranging for their limo, and unloading their luggage my husband watched them tip everyone on the line BUT the pilots.

Y'might want to be careful what you wish for. Most fractional contracts with the owners specifically prohibit offering gratuities to the flight crews. Any pilot or FA accepting a tip might find him/herself on the short end of a pink slip.

As sympathetic as I am to the very low wages NetJets offers in the first few years, no one forced anyone to take the job.

WHO CARES!!! You must be management. I think you are full of Sh!t.

If a fractional contract with an owner specifically prohibits gratuities to a flight crew member, do you (management) hand out pink slips to the owners too? Just wondering exactly where it is written that it is prohibited for flight crews to accept tips? And how do you know so much about most fractional contracts? Is this Gary (Darth) (Just Gary) Hart talking? He is the only one I know of that has been associated with FLEXJET, RTA/OPTIONS and now NETJOKE. Who else would know so much about "Most Fractional contracts"???????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Snakeplt]

NumbersASScruncher is just one of SHAMTULLI's moles. Another stupid ass accountant versed in cooking books and screwing others. What can you expect from a sewer dweller ?

 

[longrangekiller]

For us Flight Options guys and gals, the prohibition against pilots acceptings tips is in the SOP and Employee Manual.

I do not know if the owner contracts encourage the owner not to give tips.

All I know is that some captains will accept tips and SOME will not. I fact, one just departed pilot called in to complain when the captain accepted a tip. (I know the captain and he ALWAYS splits the tips down the middle.) This particular pilot was a real by the book kinda guy. No exceptions.

 

[MotoX]

Please kick backside hard!!!

I turned down an interview with Airtran for NJA five years ago. But who would have thunk it?!!? Thought Airtran was a sinking ship!!

 

[netjetwife]

How could you know?

MotoX, pilots make the best decision they can given the facts they have at the time, balanced with the needs of their families. No one has a crystal ball. That is why I take offense at those on this board that call NJ pilots "whiners" or complain at their efforts to improve an unjust contract. Professionals have every right to expect their wages to reflect their ability and experience. Best of luck.

 

[Les Paul]

That is why I take offense at those on this board that call NJ pilots "whiners" or complain at their efforts to improve an unjust contract.

netjetwife:

Pick either of my comments:

1.) I take "offense" to a NetJets "Pilot" who is to chickensh!t to make posts for themselves and pretend to be the upstanding supportive "netjetwife' rather than admitting you're actually the"husband" and hate your job.

OR;

2.) I take "offense" to "Wifey" who spend hours upon hours on this internet bulletin board posting complaints on a pilot salary thread, while hiding behind the "good wife/mother teresa" bullsh!t. How about logging off the computer and letting your husband manage his own career and debate the topic instead of you. How could you you be spending hours of your time taking care of the house and family like you claim to do? You're sitting on your lazy butt in front of a computer arguing with a bunch of pilots all hours of the day and night!

Now... which one of these applies is you??!

Les Paul

 

[netjetwife]

I do spend hours at the computer these days...updating the roster list for Colorado...and participating in an online support group for the wives. My husband DID try to warn me about your type. Guess I should have listened. I read the board while I wait for the wives to respond. The ONLY thing you've said that I can agree with---it isn't worth it. You ARE a waste of my time.

 

[Les Paul]

I do spend hours at the computer these days...updating the roster list for Colorado...and participating in an online support group for the wives. My husband DID try to warn me about your type. Guess I should have listened. I read the board while I wait for the wives to respond. The ONLY thing you've said that I can agree with---it isn't worth it. You ARE a waste of my time.

LOLOLOL!! You're such a tool!

Dude or sweetheart (whichever it is):

Look at the upper left corner of your reply. I don't care what time zone you're in. Its the middle of the night. Really supporting them wives are we??!! LOL! Or are we feeding the little one??!! LOL!

Sounds to me more like a Frac Pilot sitting in the hotel room bored out of their mind, or a really lazy women who has NOTHING to do but get her internet fix.

BTW - We actually don't agree on anything... because you keep responding, so I can't be too much of a waste of your time. The important difference is I'm very happy and secure at my airline, and don't worry about ends meet or retirement. I can afford to sit here and laugh at you.

Whether you are the Frac pilot who can't make good decisions, or the bored housewife.... how about spending this WASTED time on the internet making $$$ instead of whining about $$$!!

LOL!

Thanks for the quick reply... thus confirming what several of us were thinking about "netjetwife" and "your" posts.

Les Paul

 

[Les Paul]

.....

 

[MotoX]

I know several "Frac Pilots" who made the decision to leave Netjets to go to the airlines and now they are on the streets with no recall in sight. I missed that same fate by the skin of my teeth. Would you call that making a good decision?

That is the sole reason I turned down the interview with Airtran five years ago to come here. Upgrade faster, build jet pic and then apply with the much more "stable" airlines. However, never would have thought Airtran would be growing while others would be hurting. You call it making a good decision, I call it timing and luck! As a retired captain once told me, "In aviation, you won't know if you made the right career choices until after you retire."