Pinnacle Delta Flow-through

[PuffDriver]

EXACTLY. Which is why any pilot with the attitude like puffdriver gets zero sympathy from me. You reap what you sow. Your fault, not mine.

Who's looking for sympathy? I am merely trying to explain why the regional career guys are about to get a sharp dose of reality in their paychecks, and that there is a very good chance that 70+ seat flying will come back into the mainline fold, and to not be surprised by it. It was, is, and always will be the property of mainline. IMO, the last agreement stepped over the line with the rank and file, and they are going to redraw it.

It's coming, and IMO there will be some regional guys who benefit from it, and most definitely some who will not. I know you guys like playing the martyr, but you are appealing to emotions that I do not have. Been there, done it, got the patch.

 

[Moustache]

It's the same argument. Whether it's a Saab 340, a EMB 175, or 747-400, it's Delta flying and should be flown by Delta pilots.

You just prefer to see it a different way.

Who does Delta fly for? I've heard a lot about it lately.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

What should be done, and the reality of what can be done are two different things. I see it from a realist standpoint, and from the standpoint of actually being here.

As much as I hate to admit it, Puff is correct. One thing that many pilots fail to consider is the political landscape of ALPA. What we want and what can be achieved today are two different things. At ALPA we represent both the Mainline and regional pilots, at DALPA we represent the senior and junior pilots. What this means is there is a conflict and how much negotiating capital should be expelled on this. The senior guys care about scope to a point, but are not going to sacrifice a pay raise to take it all back, where as the junior guy is willing to risk it all. Varying desires and the political winds of ALPA must come in to play with this. DALPA represents the interests of the Delta pilot, and ALPA represents the interest of the regional and mainline pilot. In effect a quagmire.
What can be achieved today is a stepping stone for future advances in scope and list integration. Should we abandon that pursuit if it only goes half way? I think not.

 

[Nightrain_080]

upgrades

Are upgrades looking about 15 years out? :beer:

 

[WWEfan]

Mesa sucks!

 

[Speedtape]

Who's looking for sympathy? I am merely trying to explain why the regional career guys are about to get a sharp dose of reality in their paychecks, and that there is a very good chance that 70+ seat flying will come back into the mainline fold, and to not be surprised by it. It was, is, and always will be the property of mainline. IMO, the last agreement stepped over the line with the rank and file, and they are going to redraw it.

It's coming, and IMO there will be some regional guys who benefit from it, and most definitely some who will not. I know you guys like playing the martyr, but you are appealing to emotions that I do not have. Been there, done it, got the patch.

What are you puffing on? When this economy continues the downward spiral--you may not upgrade for another 10 years.

 

[imacdog]

Amazing how mainline pilots will only talk with their regional partners when it's to the benefit of Mainline pilots. Some profession, isn't it?

 

[imacdog]

What can be achieved today is a stepping stone for future advances in scope and list integration. Should we abandon that pursuit if it only goes half way? I think not.

Especially when the mainline pilots end up on the better "half".

 

[PuffDriver]

Amazing how mainline pilots will only talk with their regional partners when it's to the benefit of Mainline pilots. Some profession, isn't it?

WE did talk. WE were summarily dismissed due to a couple of groups thinking that they had more leverage than they did. Now they have furloughs.

Your going to get what you get. If you don't want it, your going to get worse.

Accept the inevitable or spend the rest of your life
:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

Don't really care either way.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Puff is a CA, my upgrade might be 10 years down the road.

One thing you need to realize over here. It is more about QOL that the stripes. Heck we have a guy on the 767 domestic here in ATL that is 600 or so on the seniority list that is hanging out in the right seat. When guys can make 130K a year in the right seat, some of the motivation to move up goes away.

See many think that the DAL guys are quacking in their pants over getting furloughed and that is the only reason they are talking to the regional guys. Wrong. That perception created the same ego based issues that killed this last time. Timing is coincidental. See we are done with 1113C and the merger issues related to us. Just so happens that we are in a recession.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff is a CA, my upgrade might be 10 years down the road.

One thing you need to realize over here. It is more about QOL that the stripes. Heck we have a guy on the 767 domestic here in ATL that is 600 or so on the seniority list that is hanging out in the right seat. When guys can make 130K a year in the right seat, some of the motivation to move up goes away.

See many think that the DAL guys are quacking in their pants over getting furloughed and that is the only reason they are talking to the regional guys. Wrong. That perception created the same ego based issues that killed this last time. Timing is coincidental. See we are done with 1113C and the merger issues related to us. Just so happens that we are in a recession.

ACL for f/o rep!!!!!!!!!

Good seeing you the other day. Although you are ugly in the morning. Yikes!!!!!

 

[Speedtape]

ACL for f/o rep!!!!!!!!!

Good seeing you the other day. Although you are ugly in the morning. Yikes!!!!!

Sounds like a Man Crush to me.

I find it interesting that you think it important enough to find the time to come over here and spread your cheer and fear! Get a life!

A Delta Captain on a regional thread--hmm! I guess you are going to tell us that it is a free country. Don't you enjoy any other SPORTS?

 

[PuffDriver]

Sounds like a Man Crush to me.

I find it interesting that you think it important enough to find the time to come over here and spread your cheer and fear! Get a life!

A Delta Captain on a regional thread--hmm! I guess you are going to tell us that it is a free country. Don't you enjoy any other SPORTS?

Great debate tactic!!!! Guess you are all out of :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

Actually, I am a product of the regionals, so I carry an interest still, especially for GLA. Sour grapes don't fly with me, brother. You guys have a lot of venom over here. You think that you know it all. You've solved all of ALPA's problems with the "just merge the lists" mantra. If you at least realized that you don't know it all, I could understand your frustration. But no. Truth is that you guys know very little with regard to union realities. The Delta MEC is in the driver's seat with regard to what they will and will not be flying. Should they choose, they can shut this company down over 50 seat rj flying and above. The reality of the situation is that it is doubtful they will do that. You guys in your infinite wisdom think it is due to lack of stones. The reality is that it is impossible for an airline as large as Delta to do all of its flying. The people in the know see that, have the numbers on that, and spend hours upon hours with experts debating these very things.

When you grasp the concept that you are not in control of things, your mind may just clear and you will see the forest through the trees. Until then, you will just keep bumping into wood. My advice would be to gain a little humility. Realize that you are a subcontractor, if you like being a subcontractor, and if not what you can do to get on the payroll. This airline is going to be around for a while. Every contractor is just one Delta contract away from firing.

...and yes, I love to golf. Unfortunately, coverage doesn't start until 4 on tv. Until then, it's the computer. PGA.com. Good stuff.

..oh, and yes, I am in love with ACL. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

[Speedtape]

Great debate tactic!!!! Guess you are all out of :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

Actually, I am a product of the regionals, so I carry an interest still, especially for GLA.
Oh, so you do care! That's in conflict with an earlier post.
Sour grapes don't fly with me, brother. You guys have a lot of venom over here. You think that you know it all.
No venom here, just lack of trust. IF I know anything, I know I don't know it all. But, I am not sure you have been ordained as the Minister of All Wisdom and Understaning either. Until I read the headlines, I will not accept your statements as all knowing.

You've solved all of ALPA's problems with the "just merge the lists" mantra. If you at least realized that you don't know it all, I could understand your frustration. But no. Truth is that you guys know very little with regard to union realities.
I have no desire for one list. I know that reality. As far as Union realities, I am now leaning towards Joe Merchant's view. THERE IS NO UNION--never has been! There is Gang Mentality, which is what you are preaching!

The Delta MEC is in the driver's seat with regard to what they will and will not be flying. Should they choose, they can shut this company down over 50 seat rj flying and above. The reality of the situation is that it is doubtful they will do that. You guys in your infinite wisdom think it is due to lack of stones. The reality is that it is impossible for an airline as large as Delta to do all of its flying. The people in the know see that, have the numbers on that, and spend hours upon hours with experts debating these very things.
1. The Delta MEC is not in the Driver's seat. Your Daddy, R.A., is just letting you drive the car around until the merger is complete.
2. ?The DALPA can shut this company down over 50 seat rjs? HaHa You don't know your own history very well! We are in agreement-- The reality of that is they WILL NEVER DO IT--never have! The best thing that you have going for you now, is that you just merged with REAL UNIONISTS! (They know how to shut an airline down!) Maybe the rest can jump on the bandwagon and follow them--but I doubt it. The people in the know--know that there is a recession that will lead to a depression,(things will get much worse) and that they are lucky to have jobs! By the way, stay in your budget, because you may be moving back down--you'll see this Fall(Pun!)

When you grasp the concept that you are not in control of things, your mind may just clear and you will see the forest through the trees. Until then, you will just keep bumping into wood. My advice would be to gain a little humility.
Right now Pal, NO ONE is in control! You just haven't seen the light yet. Humility--something that you are an expert at? OK I'll step in line !

Realize that you are a subcontractor, if you like being a subcontractor, and if not what you can do to get on the payroll. This airline is going to be around for a while. Every contractor is just one Delta contract away from firing.
We are all subcontractors! ?The airline is going to be around for a while? Hope so! (That was common thinking at Eastern when they moved into the Heavy Aircraft.)

...and yes, I love to golf. Unfortunately, coverage doesn't start until 4 on tv. Until then, it's the computer. PGA.com. Good stuff.
Dang, I am with ya on another point--.

..oh, and yes, I am in love with ACL. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Yeah--he's a Hottie!

 

[Flyer1015]

Speed tape, good points.