Perspectives on an AirTran and SWA merger

[Ty Webb]

Bou oh boy PFT again. how much do you make old man? I make more then you will ever make at Valuejet and I have been here 3 years

.

Third year, and you're making more than the $200K some of our senior guys made last year on a 9 year-old contract?

If that's true . . . and you're spending your time trolling AirTran threads, you are one unhappy mofo. :laugh::erm::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Secret Squirrel]

.

Third year, and you're making more than the $200K some of our senior guys made last year on a 9 year-old contract?

If that's true . . . and you're spending your time trolling AirTran threads, you are one unhappy mofo. :laugh::erm::laugh::laugh::laugh:[/QUOTE

You would have to average something around 110 hours a month to get that kind of pay here. Working through vacations and picking up illegal "premium" time. I have flown with these guys. They are a real asset to our pilot group. I don't know if I would throw them out as what one needs to do to make $200,000 a year as a captain here at the tranny. I have also talked to senior FO's who have made more than $100,000 a year. You should hear how they sell their soul for that kind of money. How about we talk about my pay. I made $49,000 last year and I am not in my first year. (but granted I do not fly very much, average 75 hours a month and at least 18 days off). While I knew the pay when I started here, I can not get myself to put any part of our contract out there as an example of how good we have it. Especially because any good part of our contract the company does not honor anyway.

 

[Old Crow]

Airtran is a very strong company proving over and over that it can compete with the big dogs, including SWA. A merger may be required due to pricing power and market share as the majors continue to consolidate.
The long term benefit I see is primarily to SWA. AT is laying a firm foundation within the US and expanding into markets outside the boarders all the while managing a very low cost structure. The only reason AT pilots should consider a SWA job is due to morale and possibly salary. Both of those items will be fixed soon making AT a powerhouse that SWA will have to contend with. Airtran is a unique company in a sense that the employees will make it happen even with an absent leader.

My thoughts are that SWA would buy AT for growth and to buy down competition.
AT would sell to SWA only for a large cash out to investors and execs.

I doubt this is a merger we will see happen unless SWA forces it.
The more likely scenario is that AT will go it alone and continue to be successful as a carp, feeding on the scraps that the Majors continue to drop.

 

[Ty Webb]

You would have to average something around 110 hours a month to get that kind of pay here. Working through vacations and picking up illegal "premium" time. .

I don't make the news, I just report it.

Ty

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Bou oh boy PFT again. how much do you make old man? I make more then you will ever make at Valuejet and I have been here 3 years put your diapers back on and go play in someone elses sandbox.

What else can a small dick man brag about but his pay?
How many takeoff's and landings is that sporto?
I'd say that based on all that work you do, you're grossly under paid, you 3 year peon!
And btw, good thing you had to pony up that cash to buy your job at your regional, or you'd be sitting at home......"measuring up.":laugh:

 

[Cometman]

What else can a small dick man brag about but his pay?
How many takeoff's and landings is that sporto?
I'd say that based on all that work you do, you're grossly under paid, you 3 year peon!
And btw, good thing you had to pony up that cash to buy your job at your regional, or you'd be sitting at home......"measuring up.":laugh:

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems that you think being at Airtran is a better deal than being with SWA. Is that correct?

 

[Cruncher]

Chase, as a mid seniority SWA FO, I and many of your brothers and sisters are adamantly against a merger with anyone! The pig through the python is tough enough to swallow (age 60, economy, ...), we don't need anymore crummy flip snaps to the Jimmy sack! During the F9 deal, many of our senior Captains were good to go with a merger (at least the guys I talked with after an adult beverage or two)! I got mine, got it. They were just being honest, and I appreciated those conversations. That's not to say we don't have our vocal "Save Our Johnson" senior guys. They are the ones being great stewards of the SWA culture. Strong growth after the Morris purchase more or less squashed most resentment, but we know they are still those around. I suppose you can't make everyone happy.

The slower growth of SWA now, would mean many years of flying with pissed off people, in both seats. We don't want that, nor do we need that.

Organic growth for SWA, albeit at a slower pace! Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean should be with SWA purchased airplanes with SWAPA crews at the helm (and SWA employees under the wing, at the gate, ....)! I know we can agree here.

I wish the Airtran guys the best, I hope they crack an out of the park home-run with their negotiations! I really do. It helps our industry as a whole. We all should want this.

We'll continue doing what we do best, Safely flying efficient airplanes around the system.

Thanks for the work you do for families of our fallen military heros!:beer:

PS with that all being said, I believe we have very little (if any influence) on a merger (I agree with what Whataburger said regarding GK's F9 bid).

 

[chase]

Chase, as a mid seniority SWA FO, I and many of your brothers and sisters are adamantly against a merger with anyone! The pig through the python is tough enough to swallow (age 60, economy, ...), we don't need anymore crummy flip snaps to the Jimmy sack! During the F9 deal, many of our senior Captains were good to go with a merger (at least the guys I talked with after an adult beverage or two)! I got mine, got it. They were just being honest, and I appreciated those conversations. That's not to say we don't have our vocal "Save Our Johnson" senior guys. They are the ones being great stewards of the SWA culture. Strong growth after the Morris purchase more or less squashed most resentment, but we know they are still those around. I suppose you can't make everyone happy.

The slower growth of SWA now, would mean many years of flying with pissed off people, in both seats. We don't want that, nor do we need that.

Organic growth for SWA, albeit at a slower pace! Canada, Mexico, and the Caribbean should be with SWA purchased airplanes with SWAPA crews at the helm (and SWA employees under the wing, at the gate, ....)! I know we can agree here.

I wish the Airtran guys the best, I hope they crack an out of the park home-run with their negotiations! I really do. It helps our industry as a whole. We all should want this.

We'll continue doing what we do best, Safely flying efficient airplanes around the system.


PS with that all being said, I believe we have very little (if any influence) on a merger (I agree with what Whataburger said regarding GK's F9 bid).

Cruncher,

Well said. Your sentiment is very understandable and I think is mirrored by some of various seniorities at AAI also.

We, pilots of AAI and SWA, as you said will have very little to say about if this goes down. I would not have thought the DAL/NWA pilots would have melded together relatively quietly but they are to be applauded for handling it professionally and making the best of things.

I suspect that if a AAI/SWA merger was to occur our pilot groups will bend with the wind and handle it equally or even better but I think the sentiment is shared by many on both sides the preference would be to grow organically vs. through merger.

Thanks for the other words also...we get to talk about such mundane things because others are defending our freedoms or have paid the price for it.....everytime I speak with one of the families my compass gets a realignment about what's important. Cheers,

 

[bravodude]

What else can a small dick man brag about but his pay?
How many takeoff's and landings is that sporto?
I'd say that based on all that work you do, you're grossly under paid, you 3 year peon!
And btw, good thing you had to pony up that cash to buy your job at your regional, or you'd be sitting at home......"measuring up.":laugh:

I can brag about the fact the WE MADE MONEYand delta did not. I can brag about the fact that the pilots of SWA said no to domestic scope unlike you and your friends at Delta.

by the way your wife said something totaly opposite about my apandage last night.

 

[funnyman12]

I've been at Airtran over 3 years and I'm 30. History shows that I won't know where the better airline to be at is over the course of my career. It is all speculation. Currently SWA and AT are both doing well. In 10 years (i'm still only 40 at that time) who freakin knows. Many captains I fly with were very upset that American didn't hire them in the late 90's. I'm sure if American took over Airtran in 1999 they would have sent every Airtran pilot to the street claiming "career expectations" along with other things. Well these Airtran captains are lucky they didn't go to a legacy at the time. SWA could be the #1 airline in 10 years or be another struggling airline with high costs. Airtran is in the same boat, though obviously, AT THIS TIME, are a much stronger airline. Unless Airtran has high costs, is shrinking, and losing money dont tell me that my career expectations at Airtran would be much lower than SWA in 15 years. If I recall SWA pilots were paid up to 30% less than the legacies prior to 2001. I guess if United bought SWA in 1999 they should have stapled/furloughed SWA pilots due to obvious career expectations. End of rant.....SWA pilots please dont feel the need to pull a power play on us. If a merger happens I would expect Airtran pilots to be treated with respect and understanding.

 

[funnyman12]

Correction............from above post

"Airtran is in the same boat, though obviously, AT THIS TIME, are a much stronger airline." Im referring to SWA being the stronger airline.....sorry

 

[waveflyer]

Funnyman- I'd expect that too.
But AT THIS TIME Swa simply brings more to air tran pilots than AT brings to Swa. In fact a huge market for organic growth would now, no longer be available in ATL. Merging w/ AT would provide our customers markets they want- and therefore would make Swa money- but it wouldn't do much for pilots atthe bottom of the Swa list.

Yet I can think of many immediate benefits to AT pilots. So immediate expectations are a factor that must be compensated for. The future will always be an unknown.

But I'll finish every one of these posts with the same mantra- if GK decides to buy AT- I will be onboard and will fight against greed on either ruining ALL our future expectations ala USAir.

 

[B6Busdriver]

I'm hearing it's now going to be a WN/B6 merger.....

 

[bravodude]

I've been at Airtran over 3 years and I'm 30. History shows that I won't know where the better airline to be at is over the course of my career. It is all speculation. Currently SWA and AT are both doing well. In 10 years (i'm still only 40 at that time) who freakin knows. Many captains I fly with were very upset that American didn't hire them in the late 90's. I'm sure if American took over Airtran in 1999 they would have sent every Airtran pilot to the street claiming "career expectations" along with other things. Well these Airtran captains are lucky they didn't go to a legacy at the time. SWA could be the #1 airline in 10 years or be another struggling airline with high costs. Airtran is in the same boat, though obviously, AT THIS TIME, are a much stronger airline. Unless Airtran has high costs, is shrinking, and losing money dont tell me that my career expectations at Airtran would be much lower than SWA in 15 years. If I recall SWA pilots were paid up to 30% less than the legacies prior to 2001. I guess if United bought SWA in 1999 they should have stapled/furloughed SWA pilots due to obvious career expectations. End of rant.....SWA pilots please dont feel the need to pull a power play on us. If a merger happens I would expect Airtran pilots to be treated with respect and understanding.

Let me ask you a question if the shoe was on the other foot and Airtran was the bigger of the two would you still say the same thing, i would guess not. Every single pilot at his or her airline is going to want whats best for them. Im sure we would love a staple at SWA but I can tell you thats not going to happen. Im sure you guys would love the samething but thats not going to happen either. Like I said everybody wants what is best for them, can you really blame a pilot group for trying to take care of their own. I would expect nothing less from the Airtran group also. In the end if this does happen Im sure we will meet somewhere in the middle and life will go on.

 

[Kharma Police]

Bou oh boy PFT again. how much do you make old man? I make more then you will ever make at Valuejet and I have been here 3 years put your diapers back on and go play in someone elses sandbox.

I know for sure I'm 12,000 dollars richer than you for not paying for my job.....

 

[texman]

Do they type fo's at Airtranny?

 

[Kharma Police]

Let me ask you a question if the shoe was on the other foot and Airtran was the bigger of the two would you still say the same thing, i would guess not. Every single pilot at his or her airline is going to want whats best for them. Im sure we would love a staple at SWA but I can tell you thats not going to happen. Im sure you guys would love the samething but thats not going to happen either. Like I said everybody wants what is best for them, can you really blame a pilot group for trying to take care of their own. I would expect nothing less from the Airtran group also. In the end if this does happen Im sure we will meet somewhere in the middle and life will go on.

Wow, so profound! Not only are you rich beyond your wildest dreams from Southwest but obviously intellectuality rich too. I mean, those hypothetical airline reversals really got me thinking.........

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I can brag about the fact the WE MADE MONEYand delta did not.

And yet DAL is still in business. hmmmmmmm. How much has the luv machine lost in the last 2 years? How about them dwinding profits. Your groups arrogance is laughable. Especially since you're the group that began the race to the bottom!

I can brag about the fact that the pilots of SWA said no to domestic scope unlike you and your friends at Delta.

LMAO! Can you also brag about how without buying your job you'd still be sucking the hose off the lav truck? Can you also brag that your pilot group was the catalyst that started the age 65 rule?
How many pilots overstaffed are you? How many downgrades have happened. Your own CEO said, no growth this year!
I hear furloughs are in the future. You got any more spare change with all that dough to buy yourself another job when you get furloughed? Spout more from your nut drainer, mr. 3 year wonder!

by the way your wife said something totaly opposite about my apandage last night.

She thought it was a pubic hair til it peed! Nice move tiny!:laugh::blush:

 

[chase]

Funnyman,

Congrats on getting hired at AAI....I suspect you will do fine over the course of your career but you are correct for all of us, we don't know until the music stops and we see where we are standing.

I believe "if" a merger was to occur the concerns you express about "career expectations" are precisely what A&M emphasizes which will have to be taken into account. In fact, our language in our new contract that addresses merger and how the union will handle it states what is the law of the land, we will abide by the intent of A&M and negotiate accordingly.

This will obviously require your folks to make the case properly but I suspect that can be made as you succinctly point out. Thanks for joining in with meaningful commentary and again congrats.

 

[bravodude]

Wow, so profound! Not only are you rich beyond your wildest dreams from Southwest but obviously intellectuality rich too. I mean, those hypothetical airline reversals really got me thinking.........

WOW Who pi$$ed in your coffee today. All I said was everyone wants what is best for them, you cant blame people for that. I think you guys should get what you would ask for and I think we should also, in the real world IF this merger would ever happen we would all get something in the middle. You want to be an a$$ go ahead, have a GREAT Day!