flopgut said:
I have looked more closely at the NC and your not right at all. Those initials you listed were just functionaries. NC policy was shaped by TS and RM, both former PE with 20+ years. I thought I was right, but I had to check into it.
Ummm floppy, you commented about he "current" NC and I gave you the current NC’s initials and hire dates. Obviously this wrecked your last saga so now you have mentioned only 2/3 of the PAST committee. I didn’t realize we were talking about the past, especially when you made reference about the "current" NC. But as to your grasping reply, you left out BK from your example. That lowers the average seniority to around 14.5 years. Far less than the 20 years you have been whining about. I stand by my other reply as to the makeup of the current NC. Either way it ruins your "20 year" comment
flopgut said:
Do you even read anything the union puts out? Did you not listen to the P2P calls at all? I'm pretty sure you didn't, you must be too busy.
I read about as much as I could tolerate from the old ME and NC. I had my mind made up for a no vote regardless of what they put out because of the trust and integrity factor. What P2P calls? They ended late last summer when those guys couldn’t handle the heat of the questions. I did listen to them and that became a circus of denial and tap dancing around the issues. They were in effect a waste of time.
flopgut said:
So you doubt my advice about the lump sum? You don't even really need it, huh? Just extra, eh?
Yes. No. Yes.
flopgut said:
That would surprise me, but we do have a few guys like that.
Yes we do. In fact we have quite a few more than you may realize.
flopgut said:
They might fly OK, but usually don't know pigpoop from apple butter when it comes to union stuff.
Well, it seems I have a better grasp on our negotiators but other than that I really don’t see your analogy here
flopgut said:
So hey, you must be extra wealthy! UAL & USAir and perhaps soon DAL & NWA lose their retirements but your not too sure ole flopgut isn't lying to you. Far better to hang around and make sure a junior creep like me gets not so much as one decent pairing! It would just kill you to see anyone do well or get something that could be yours, even if you don't really want/need it.
What are you babbling about? You sound like spoiled little brat trying to make arguments like the ones above. They make no sense whatsoever and only make your position against the change look more ludicrous.
Flop, it is not about money for some, it is about money for others. You can’t have a homogenized opinion on this subject and try and wave a magic wand and have it apply to all points of view. The only reason I chimed in with you is I got sick of listening to your diatribe that all the ills of the industry are because of the senior people. I tried to point that out to you here with the NC but you bastardized and twisted the reply. You also don’t accept that the junior people at CAL didn’t carry the vote at CAL. Does that not in itself blow your theory away?
At least I got you to stop pointing fingers in the wrong direction. I will take that as a win.
flopgut said:
Now pay attention: if you lose that lump sum I don't want to hear you gripe about it.
Now pay attention Flop, I am not worried about my lump sum. Further, you look like a fool trying to bolster you argument with this threat of losing the lump sum,. Please come up with some better material will you? The carrot and stick approach is not working and is very transparent.
flopgut said:
Additionally, I don't want to have to negotiate anything special for those of you who might lose it and then want all of us sacrifice and make a special effort to raise you up.
I don’t recall this being my position or desire.
flopgut said:
You can do something smart and take care of yourself now, or you can be less than smart and put yourself at risk. I carefully make that point to make this point: It is not unlike the age 60 rule. There are things we all need to be doing throughout our careers to get ourselves ready to retire
I already have Flop. This doesn’t apply to me. It also doesn’t apply to my personal thoughts and position on age 60. But again I thank you for not carping about senior pilots ruining the industry.
flopgut said:
If most of you age change folks had actually done that, maybe the rest of us would not have to put our career progressions on hold to raise each of you up.
Has it ever occurred to you that you will have longer to work under a hopefully improving pay and benefits packages for the future? Probably not.
flopgut said:
Senior CAL pilots need to be ready to act on that lump sum if it becomes in doubt. I DO NOT want to have to be told you need to work to 70 because you lost your lump sum!
No one is asking you to fly to 70. You are free to bail at anytime. When did I lose that lump sum? How many times do I have to tell you that I am not counting on it? You shouldn’t either.
flopgut said:
I DO NOT want to be called a scab, or be called greedy,
I said you "sound" like a scab. If you don’t want to "sound" like one don’t talk like an opportunist. You come across as an opportunist with your theories and goals. Really it is pretty simple. If you don’t like it perhaps you should examine your words and comments.
As far as greed, when you sift away all your arguments they are all based on greed. My only reason for support of the extension is based on the need of many pilots after the events and decimation of their retirements. It is also a discriminatory practice and it always has been. Need vs. greed.
flopgut said:
or have my respect for the early years of ALPA questioned
LMAO!!!!! you have no respect for your senior ALPA peers blaming them for all of your problems and the industries woes but you want respect about your views of ALPA? If anything, we need the old school back instead of the guys like you and Belly with your warped sense of entitlement attitudes.
flopgut said:
and I especially DO NOT want to have to put my career on hold again because you senior guys can't make smart decisions. Like Ron White says: "you can't fix stupid".
Who was here first? Listen to Ron (whoever he is) sounds like he has some good advice for you.
flopgut said:
I have spent the better part of a decade working within rank. Trying to be predictable and helpful and contribute.
You’re telling me with a 7% growth rate and 10 years seniority you can’t upgrade Flop? I guess those like myself with between 20 & 30 years don’t earn or deserve anything then. Is this what you are saying?
flopgut said:
Now I look ahead at quite possibly 5 years of stagnation with frustration and you tell me "I have a lot of nerve". I'll handle it if I have to, I'll be professional about it, one of us has to be.
Thank you. If you are not professional and come across in the cockpit like you do on here, it sounds like you’ll have some problems. I’ll take a wild guess and state that you don’t come across anything like you do on here on property and to your peers. If so, I encourage you to voice your opinions to senior guys while at work. Go ahead, see what the results might be.
flopgut said:
No more scab talk. Remember, I want to support the union's position on the issue.
Only because it fits with your current mantra. If you don’t want to sound like a scab quit the opportunism like attitude and argue some real points. * What if our union chnages its position. Are you still going to support it then?
*Note to slow witted people like Crosscut. See how I say "sound" it is different than actually saying he "is" a scab.
flopgut said:
You want to craft an additional five years of super seniority for yourself outside the collective bargaining agreement. Who is acting like a scab?
It has nothing to do with seniority outside of a cba. It is about age discrimination plain and simple. I notice you still fail to address my personal situation of not planning on flying past 55 and the issues I feel need to change. Medicare, SS, PBGC age and payment limits. Usually opportunists just think about themselves, like you have carped about. See what I mean? I am thinking baout others, not myself. You only seem to reference your personal issues.
flopgut said:
It looks like CAL may be the only airline left with an A plan. That makes me nervous. SuperCaptain Boeingman is representative of a large number of our captains that are nearing (or could) retirement. They are more worried that I might fly captain one day too early!
That is such complete bullcrap Mr WhineyIhatebeingandamtogoodtobeaF/OFlopgut. Give it a rest will you? Why do you continue harping about the A plan? What does that have to do with the supposed argument about safety or seniority progresion? It also contradicts your me me me me I have to be a Captain mantra.
flopgut said:
So they'll hang around and INSIST the remainder of the list stand ready to sacrifice anything to protect their A plan. We have done a lot, I don't want to do anything more. If they can't take care of themselves, then at some point we have to cut them loose! I wish we could have said that on age 60!
See above comment. The more you argue the more grasping you sound. At least with Belly he keeps it pure and simple just greed, arrogance and immaturity. "
