Over AGE 60 PILOTS TO FLY IN UNITED STATES

[BonesF15]

I was told by several folks that if/when the rules change to 60plus that an Astronaut physical will be required after age 50.
This could be a major downer for many of the guys pushing the over 60 thing.

 

[CaptainMark]

Why Do You All Want To Fly Past 60?

lets see...greed..failed marriageS...invested in elephants that poop gold bars...money mismanagement..no life...oh well..i will have to be #1 on the seniority list for another 5 years...

 

[Huck]

B727, 737, 747-400, 757, 767, 777, DC-10

Mr. UndauntedFlyer -

all due respect, but I would argue that you flew every one of these aircraft 5 years earlier because of the age sixty rule.

Now it no longer suits you, so you want to change it. Well, that'll probably be my opinion when I'm 59. But right now I'm just trying to raise kids in a single income home, and I've got many good friends furloughed right now.

How 'bout riding your Hog, flying your Pitts, and letting the younger folks earn. Or go fly King-Aires. Change your paradigm.

Again, all due respect. When I get to 59 I'll agree with you. But statistically I've got about a 70% chance of making it that far with my medical, and I've got kids to feed.....

Huck

 

[CSY Mon]

If the 60 rule is changed to 65, several thousand furloughed pilots will not be recalled.

Go retire, go fishing and don't hog the seat: You had your turn in the honey pot, let the next guy move up.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Is anything at all owed to these Vietnam and Desert storm veterans?

Comments?

 

[N1kawotg]

General "The Supreme Court disagrees with you. They ruled against a group of Southwest pilots who wanted the rules changed. They stated that they would have to change the rules for more groups, like firemen and policemen"

I'm not here to disagree with you on age 60 but I think the Supreme Court decided against a law suit over age discrimination. They said that is the law in place and ruled against and threw out the case that the pilots based on discrimination. The pilots did not try to get the rule thrown out, that is the job of the senate and house.

CSY- How many guys have been recalled due to retirements. I'm pretty sure they have alot of pilots retire in the past 4 years. Did companies hire that same number back. My guess-NO. There are many airlines that are recalling now, some based on retirements some growth. My point, just cause one retires doesn't mean co. x with recall one. They'll try to make the ones at the co. work harder first.

 

[Flopgut]

Comments?

How many pilots are in the desert right now who are furloughed, or will come back and want to fly for an airline? Do they not matter to you? They just want the same opportunities those vets got.

 

[Lear70]

The Supreme Court disagrees with you. They ruled against a group of Southwest pilots who wanted the rules changed. They stated that they would have to change the rules for more groups, like firemen and policemen. I don't want a 62 year old fireman carrying me out of a burning house. Nope.

I agree with you a lot, General, but I think you and a lot of other people that think the age 60 rule will stand are in for a rude awakening.

The government dropped the ball with pension reform YEARS ago, now they're going to have to live with it. The PBGC is going to require a Federal bailout, the aviation community is in shambles, and it is, in large, a product of failure of the Federal Government to pick a side. Either they side on "free enterprise" and stop bailing out airlines when they go belly-up and/or protecting airlines when working try to engage in self-help, OR the government decides to re-regulate the industry. Pick one, this mix and match of which rules apply to which airline isn't working - hasn't for the last 20+ years.

In this case, where you stand has a LOT to do with how involved you are and what you have to gain. If you're age 60, have no pension (or a $2,400 a month check and you were planning on $12,400 because YOU EARNED IT, IT WAS PART OF YOUR HOURLY COMPENSATION THAT A PORTION OF IT WENT TO YOUR PENSION, then you probably feel justified to keep working if you want to.

Similarly, you should be allowed to retire if you DESIRE at age 60. Megadeath, I hear you, I will HOPEFULLY be set enough to disappear at age 55, but if I'm not, it should be my choice to keep going to 60, 65, as long as I can hold the medical.

BonesF15, I think you're right on the mark. I see Congress, the Senate, and the President all signing legislation that allows an Age 65 pilot to fly, then I see the FAA stepping up and saying "Fine, but just like an EKG is required at certain age groups, we'll simply add to that list and past age 60 require a $1,500 physical every 6 months to keep going including stress EKG and EEG, cardio enzyme, tighter blood pressure ranges, etc, and rule out about 60-70% of the over-60 pilots anyway."

Don't think they'll be able to stop the FAA from doing that, which will have an added plus: if older pilots want to keep flying they'll have to keep themselves in better shape, reducing their health-care costs dramatically.

PurpleTail, the above should satisfy your safety concerns, and I agree with you completely, I see some age 40 pilots who scare the crap out of me - they look like a walking cardiac risk then they fly with 19 year old 400 hour wonder-kids and I'm thinking (I don't want my family on THAT airplane when his kicker cuts out).

The ICAO rule is set to go into effect whether anyone likes it or not. A lot of Indian and Chinese airlines will go to hiring age 60-63 pilots who have thousands of hours in the 747/757/767 A330/340 and simply convert their FAA licenses over to their own country's ICAO equivalent with an equivalency exam and the normal sims required for new-hires and those guys will start flying all over the world again. THAT'S the loophole for US pilots for now, and once the U.S. government (and the FAA) sees that there's no way to prohibit these guys and gals from doing it, they'll probably cave in.

No reason to shut the barn door AFTER the cows have exited the building. Age 65 is coming whether you like it or not, gentlemen.

 

[Osmosis]

I don't think anyone will argue that the reason ALPA is divided on this issue is the different age groups in ALPA. Right? If I am not mistaken, a majority of the pilots, albeit a small majority, is not in favor of the age 60 rule being increased to let's say 65. Why, because more ALPA members are younger rather than older. I read previously in this thread that ALPA needs to be together on this instead of divided. So why does the majority have to concede the issue to be together as a union? Why can't the minority, those wanting to fly at over age 60, concede and support the rest of the union and fight against the rule? Wouldn't that break the wall that exists? I don't think it is fair for everyone else in the union to capitulate for your cause, when the majority of the union is against it. But that's my very small, and humble opinion.

 

[Flopgut]

This change will stratify the profession even more. I am less worried about airline mgts than I am about these senior pilots that will be allowed to linger. Combine greed with the fact that this change is simply a gift to them that required no additional discipline and the results are worrysome. They are going to want more pay and benefits at the top. Too many will have zero regard for what that does to the bottom half of the seniority list. (nothing like this happened to them in their career) I already hear far too much talk at CAL of a captains only raise. Just look at the tone of the posts here by the age change contingent. Look for them to not only pull up the ladder on the rest of us, they will probably roll out the "cauldron of boiling oil" to pour on our heads. They will cut deals with mgt and enable them to make the <50% seniority airline career worth zip.