Over AGE 60 PILOTS TO FLY IN UNITED STATES

[SWA/FO]

The Supreme Court disagrees with you. They ruled against a group of Southwest pilots who wanted the rules changed. They stated that they would have to change the rules for more groups, like firemen and policemen. I don't want a 62 year old fireman carrying me out of a burning house. Nope.

The Supreme Court refused to hear the case. (I think) I don't care how old the person is that carries me out of a burning house, just so they get my a$$ out.

 

[Phaedrus]

"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before," Bokonon tells us. "He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way."-- Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]

 

[Huck]

I would like to be the first to propose and offer a solution to your comment above. If the age rule ever changes to age 65 some day that we offer all the guys that were forced out at 60 but that are not yet 65 a chance to come back to the airline they worked for so I don't get that windfall. The airlines would have to retrain them and then they are entitled to there original seniority back above me at SWA until they get to 65 with full benefits! That would make it fair for everyone and I would sign off on that immediately!

That's because you're already a captain. It's a pretty safe bet that there won't be any downgrades because of all this - it would increase training costs (maybe not at SWA but definitely at FDX.)

If you're a captain, all you're looking at is decreased seniority for a few years.

If you're an f/o looking to upgrade, this change will cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars.

As my 75 year old instructor on the Twin Beech told me 16 years ago, "It's all whose ox is getting gored...."

 

[sandman2122]

can't wait....

Oh I can't wait until I have to fly with one of those greedy over 60 %^#*&!

I'll have to start keep a tab on how many times I have to cover their mistakes for missing checklist items, radio calls, level off's .etc......

But wait! I'm already doing that with a lot of the over 55 group!

 

[Jim Smyth]

If you're an f/o looking to upgrade, this change will cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars.

So then its not about my greed then is it since I am already topped out at the 12+ year pay scale at our company?

My comments were aimed at the few that continually keep ripping on me in here. You try to use logic and try to make compromises or offer constructive ideas that may benefit everyone. But then you get the comments about keeping your orginal wife ( I only had and still have just 1). Buying your second home ( I only have 1). Making good investments ( I have lived within my means my whole career).

But all alot of the younger guys see is getting into the left seat and maybe having to wait a few more years to get there if its does go to 65. Most Pilots attitudes to this issue start to change around 40 years old.

If they made it 65 I would probably only go to 62 (current situation) when my Social security kicks in unless I dont have any medical coverage at that time which would probably force me to go to 65. Medical is a hugh deal to me. I have seen lots of bad things happen to people over my life in reguards to health and if you arnt covered you loose big time. Now I am sure the same smart A$$es will come in and say then go buy some. I have health insurance with my work and will buy it if and when its needed and not a moment sooner.

 

[skykid]

Here is some interesting reading - I got it in an email and apologize for not having a source. I investigate aircraft accidents (mostly general aviation) and am amazed how many involve pilots over 60.

Average Pilot Age Increasing -- Accidents, Too

Statistics compiled by The Associated Press suggest that the older you are,the harder you'll fall. The news gathering organization pored over FAA and NTSB records and determined that pilots older than 50 have a significantly greater chance of crashing than younger pilots. The stats perhaps take on even greater significance considering the fact that the average age of pilots is now 47. The AP report also found that the accident rate went up with age, and that those in their 60s were at a roughly proportional greater risk of crashing. Older pilots were also in more fatal accidents. The AP undertook the research after what it described as "a rash of plane crashes involving older pilots in Southern California." Just how many crashes constitute "a rash," the news service didn't say. However, several of the accidents attracted significant media coverage, particularly one on July 7,2004, in which a Harmon Rocket plunged through the roof of a house in SealBeach, Calif., with 62-year-old Ross Anderson, an ex-Navy pilot, in the cockpit. Friends insist Anderson must have been incapacitated before the crash. "The way the accident happened, there was no way he was at the controls," David Hallmark told the AP. "There's no way with his experience that he would've done what the airplane was doing." Occupants of the house escaped serious injury but the house was destroyed and legal wrangling has prevented reconstruction.

Crash Statistics, From The Associated Press

According to the AP's research, pilots older than 50 were involved in 55.8 percent of accidents over a five-year period even though they constituteonly 36.8 percent of certificated pilots. And, apparently, the older a pilot gets, the greater the risk. Pilots between the ages of 50 and 59 had 26.4 percent of accidents, marginally higher than their percentage of the pilot population, which is about 22.1 percent, but those 60 and older had 23.6 percent of accidents even though they make up only 14.7 percent of certificated pilots. The research also determined that those under 50 consistently had proportionately fewer accidents throughout the five-year sample period. To its credit, the AP asked experts if its findings had any sort of real-world merit. According to the experts they consulted, the methodology was "simple but sound." However, it should be pointed out that any number of factors, including pilot experience (complacency?), history (old, bold pilots?) and aircraft type (higher income equals higher performance, equals higher impact speed?) were not factored into the research and may have influenced the results.

Most Pilots attitudes to this issue start to change around 40 years old.

I don't know about that - I undestand that is your opinion.

 

[Huck]

I'm not ripping into anybody. As I have stated before, when I'm 59 I'll probably change my mind on this.

But I'm not there yet. And this business has turned hard, brutal and ever-changing. After watching my dad (NWA, ret) and my uncle (UAL) and some good friends get their lives shot out from under them (or the threat of it in my dad's case) I've developed a philosophy: bottom line everything. Every decision is based on how much it will make me. Not in 20 years, but now.

I refuse to even acknowledge our A plan pension, for instance, because it is worthless to me. I can't depend on it. I wish I could get out of it right now and put the money in my B fund.

I need to upgrade and make money. This rule change will slow that down. So I'm against it. I certainly respect the other side, and one day I'll join it. But the future is just too uncertain for me to look that far ahead.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

Thanks skykid ... that was the article I read also. These old dudes are a hazard ... no question about it. 60 has proven to be a great age to mandate retirement. It forces the geezers (who are already displaying signs of dementia) out of the cockpit before a disaster makes it obvious.

Boringman, your war and peace epic maxed out my "who-gives-a-crap" meter early on. Brevity is key. Rambling, long-winded responses are another sign of advanced age.

BBB

 

[Boeingman]

Boringman, your war and peace epic maxed out my "who-gives-a-crap" meter early on. Brevity is key. Rambling, long-winded responses are another sign of advanced age.

BBB

What a treat!! I just walk in the door and our resident anti geezer Johnny Junior Jet Jock has posted. But you disappoint me with no rambling childlike arguments this time. What gives? Did your immaturameter break? Or do you just not have the abiltiy or intelligence to take part in a responsible conversation or debate? No worries sonny, when you grow up you'll learn.

BTW, can you post the news article you found about long winded responses are an advanced sign of age? I mean I am sure you are just stroking yourself to that really technical article about general aviation pilots. So if you can break your hands free from yourself, please do post it.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

What a treat!! I just walk in the door and our resident anti geezer Johnny Junior Jet Jock has posted. But you disappoint me with no rambling childlike arguments this time. What gives? Did your immaturameter break? Or do you just not have the abiltiy or intelligence to take part in a responsible conversation or debate? No worries sonny, when you grow up you'll learn.

BTW, can you post the news article you found about long winded responses are an advanced sign of age? I mean I am sure you are just stroking yourself to that really technical article about general aviation pilots. So if you can break your hands free from yourself, please do post it.

[yawn]