Options

[imacdog]

You know B19, a lot of us get handed crap during our careers. The difference is some people will make the best of the situation that was given to them, and people like you become bitter and tell half-truths and outright lies. I guess it's all in how you deal with what life throws your way.

 

[FracMonkey]

Do you really want to go there, Bob?

You mention safety and claim that unions negatively affect it? From what I understand, you and your handlers have refused to recognize the union's committees at FLOPS including the safety committee. So, who does and who doesnt have safety at the top of their agenda. Certainly not top management!

 

[TurboHonda]

B19,

In case you can’t understand why you’re held in such contempt, consider this: Your obvious arrogance in being a senior manager keeps showing itself. On more than one occasion you refer to a “mob mentality”. Rather than recognize the pilots as being united or solidified, you want to refer to us as a mob. So, we’re a mob and you are the elite. Unfortunately, between any two extremes lies the truth.

You talk about ridiculous work rules and balancing a CBA. Are you talking about the FARs? Management’s attempt to circumvent the FARs and run rough-shod over the pilots is what brought the union to your doorstep to begin with.

So, now your job was to stop the union. You failed.

Next your job is to stop a CBA from happening. You’re failing again.

Then, when we get a CBA, your job will be to “balance it with the needs of safety and the financial health of the carrier”. Bull. What you really mean is find ways to evade what is in the contract.

Your reference to “all the things that make each flight safe everyday” expressly excludes the pilots. Are you serious? Are you really of the opinion that a professionally trained, recognized, and compensated flightcrew is not the most controlling part of the safety equation?

 

[fischman]

Admission?

I know, I know.. if you work really hard, get your certificates and education, work really hard and become respected by both your peers and superiors to the point of which you become a manager or director that automatically means that you are part of an evil scheme that is only there to bring wrongdoing to all the goodness that unions bring aviation.

In my case I did all the right things and was placed in a position of responsibility because I understood how various componants of flight departments operated.

There is no "admission", it's something that just happened, and I'm content to say that I'm glad it happened. One thing is for sure though, through the roadmap of my career, I have seen things in this business that most haven't, and one of the most disgusting and aggravating things is when unions wreak havok to the inner workings of an otherwise normal carrier such as what is happening right now at Northwest. The safety issues are overwhelming.

You can tell me all the wonderful things that unions have done for you, and I'll equal them with everything unions have taken away from me as a direct result of their greed.

In management, you make efforts to mitigate risk, not add to it. You make every attempt to do what's right and become part of the solution and not part of the problem. Those who let unions speak for them don't have the courage to step into management, they would prefer to stay in the background and get rolled over by the mob mentality of union leadership. Every airline union I've ever seen has placed financial hardship on every carrier I've worked at due to high labor cost and ridiculous work rules. This forces the carrier to find other ways to cut and pay for the contract. Usually it goes to the quality of the non-union support workers, maintenance and internal support... In other words, all the things that make each flight safe everyday.

Admission? Damn right. If you ain't got the nuts to walk in the shoes of management to see what it's like on the other side, don't stand there and throw it out like it's something bad. Those of us that have walked those paths know how hard it is to hit that fine line balancing a CBA with the needs of safety and the financial health of a carrier. Go walk in them... if you dare.

Become management and spit in the faces of my fellow pilots? No thanks. It takes certain cold-hearted individuals to do that.

I'd rather have the respect of my peers than their contempt. However, being in management, you must be cold-hearted and therefore not care about the respect of your peers.

You have not posted a single thing on these boards to show me you actually care about the pilots on your list. Not one. That is why they want (and need) a union.

 

[dime line]

I want to know how Bob plans to help all of his PSM's that were ASAP'ing on a regular basis.

 

[Phoenix]

FAA head turning

I want to know how Bob plans to help all of his PSM's that were ASAP'ing on a regular basis.

I wonder how long the FAA/our POI is going to ignore all the ASAP reports that point out just how unsafe the attitude of Options managers really is. They have to know that turning a blind eye will make them liable should metal get bent over something that has been repeatedly reported.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Become management and spit in the faces of my fellow pilots? No thanks. It takes certain cold-hearted individuals to do that.

I'd rather have the respect of my peers than their contempt. However, being in management, you must be cold-hearted and therefore not care about the respect of your peers.

You have not posted a single thing on these boards to show me you actually care about the pilots on your list. Not one. That is why they want (and need) a union.

The simple fact that I'm pro-company and anti-union should be enough to prove that I care about the pilots I work with everyday. Becoming management doesn't mean that you are spitting in the face of your fellow pilots or are cold hearted. It means that you are willing to step up to the plate and become part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Bringing a union onto the property doesn't mean that the union has any more power than any talented individual manager without a union. To me, those that hide behind a union are those that are cold hearted. They lack the courage and fortitude to stand up and speak for themselves. The jackels of society.

 

[400pilot]

It means that you are willing to step up to the plate and become part of the solution rather than part of the problem.

Management isn't the solution, management is the problem.

To me, those that hide behind a union are those that are cold hearted.

Yeah, this makes sense..... coming from someone hiding behind an anonymous name on a forum. Also, since the pilots are the union, does this mean we are hiding behind ourselves?

They lack the courage and fortitude to stand up and speak for themselves.

Oh please....this is one of the stupidest things I've heard in awhile. We have been "speaking for ourselves" for years and look where that got us.

The jackels(sp) of society.

Jackals are scavengers, they prey on the weak and defenseless. Kind of like the way management has preyed on the pilot group, who were/are defenseless without a contract.

You know, the more I read this thread, the more I believe that you are not B.T. Why don't you show some of that courage and fortitude you anti-union folks have and reveal your name?

 

[B19 Flyer]

Management isn't the solution, management is the problem.

Yeah, this makes sense..... coming from someone hiding behind an anonymous name on a forum. Also, since the pilots are the union, does this mean we are hiding behind ourselves?

Oh please....this is one of the stupidest things I've heard in awhile. We have been "speaking for ourselves" for years and look where that got us.

Jackals are scavengers, they prey on the weak and defenseless. Kind of like the way management has preyed on the pilot group, who were/are defenseless without a contract.

You know, the more I read this thread, the more I believe that you are not B.T. Why don't you show some of that courage and fortitude you anti-union folks have and reveal your name?

Isn't union leadership nothing but management with power backed by mob mentality? Unions wait until an organization is successful, then feed on it until there isn't anything left. Just like a jackal.

 

[dime line]

Isn't union leadership nothing but management with power backed by mob mentality? Unions wait until an organization is successful, then feed on it until there isn't anything left. Just like a jackal.

So how does your Contract with FLOPS read? What do you get as your umbrella?

 

[dime line]

Isn't union leadership nothing but management with power backed by mob mentality? Unions wait until an organization is successful, then feed on it until there isn't anything left. Just like a jackal.

Let me re phrase this.....Isn't management leadership nothing but management with power backed by management mentality

Notice I only changed one word!!!!( the word in blue) So what is the difference between Union and Management in this statement?

 

[learflyer]

Why the obsession with Jackals? Are there pics of you f*&*^*g one in high school or something?

 

[skyismyoffice]

Isn't union leadership nothing but management with power backed by mob mentality? Unions wait until an organization is successful, then feed on it until there isn't anything left. Just like a jackal.

Unprecedented growth at Net Jets started AFTER the union contract, when the Union and the company started working together. It seems like the real success of the company requires the Union. Maybe I'm missing something? If the Union 'feeding' on the company has this kind of results maybe FLOPs is missing something?

 

[400pilot]

Isn't union leadership nothing but management with power backed by mob mentality?

No. I see you like to keep referring to a union as "mob mentality." What you are trying to do is the oldest trick in the book.......

Unions wait until an organization is successful, then feed on it until there isn't anything left. Just like a jackal.

This sounds like what management has been doing to the pilot group.

So in other words, you will not address any of my points...........

 

[fischman]

I'm starting to think that B19 is actully an elected union offical. His posts apparently do the complete opposite of what he intends. Instead of turning folks OFF of unions, he seems to harbor unity and pride in our unions.

Keep it up B19!

 

[Phoenix]

The simple fact that I'm pro-company and anti-union should be enough to prove that I care about the pilots I work with everyday. Becoming management doesn't mean that you are spitting in the face of your fellow pilots or are cold hearted. It means that you are willing to step up to the plate and become part of the solution rather than part of the problem. Bringing a union onto the property doesn't mean that the union has any more power than any talented individual manager without a union. To me, those that hide behind a union are those that are cold hearted. They lack the courage and fortitude to stand up and speak for themselves. The jackels of society.

Well brother Bob At least you have finlay openly admitted that you are anti union. Its been a long time coming but I'm glad you got its out there for all to finlay recognize.

"Part of the solution" ??? What solution might you be talking about? The tier three debacle, the constant attack on our quality of life, the constant intimidation of our pilots you tolerate from your PMs, the blind eye that you turn to unsafe operations and the borderline illegal rulings you get from your POI, the 300% increase in our health insurance, these bulsh!t productivity meetings you have been holding, and last but not least putting pilots on the street because they had problems getting a bulsh!t permit from the Canadians. Yep Bob I really can understand how you see that you are part of the solution.

"simple fact that I'm pro-company and anti-union should be enough to prove that I care about the pilots" Bob this is so laughable that its not even worth addressing. I guess you are pro company and care for us pilots like your boss Schreeinga and Agerwal, they really do care about the pilots. Bob I think you are confusing pro company with pro management. There is a significant difference.

"Bringing a union onto the property doesn't mean that the union has any more power than any talented individual manager without a union" Bob, this just does not make any since at all. First, the pilots are not responsible for bringing a Union on the property, management and all the crap they have laid on the pilots over the past few years is responsible. Voting for representation was a last resort for a pilot group that had been generally anti union in the past. Responsibility for the union falls squarely on managements back and their history of failures. Second, what talented managers? Show me one. Also Bob you know as well as me that power is exactly what this whole Union vs management and contract negotiations is all about. Its a process of forcing total power from managements corrupt hands and sharing and enforcing work place power with the pilots through a CBA. Once a CBA is signed management will no longer have the total power over the pilots that you have enjoyed in the past.

"To me, those that hide behind a union are those that are cold hearted. They lack the courage and fortitude to stand up and speak for themselves." WTF over???? Every man that has worked to bring representation has done it with extreme risk to himself. Each one of us knew that should you and your buddies find out who we were you would quickly arrange our swift departure from the company. We have been speaking for our selves for several years now and what happened Bob was 67% of our pilots decided that they felt the same way and stood up to speak for themselves along with us. We don't stand behind a Union Bob the Union is behind us and helps us make sure that when we speak management hears our collective voice. The gutless wonders you speak of Bob reside in the cooperate halls of Options not in the cockpits of our jets.

"Jackals of society" , you have to be kidding. This is truly the pot calling the kettle black. Who are you trying to convince of this crap, the pilots or yourself???

 

[fischman]

Wow!!!

That just screams UNITY and PRIDE, not only for the Union, but for himself!

Good for you Phoenix!

I still think B19 is in the Union. :laugh:

 

[Phoenix]

Intresting thouht

That just screams UNITY and PRIDE, not only for the Union, but for himself!

Good for you Phoenix!

I still think B19 is in the Union. :laugh:

Interesting thought, but no I don't believe that he is Union. There are many here that are convinced that he is Options VP of operations. Is there proof, no, but his words and style mimic very closely those of our VP.

 

[Guitar Guy]

Interesting thought, but no I don't believe that he is Union. There are many here that are convinced that he is Options VP of operations. Is there proof, no, but his words and style mimic very closely those of our VP.

Interestingly enough, our VP of Ops has his own unique grammitcal "style" - you can definitely tell that he doesn't have a secretary draft his memos.

Maybe odd writing styles are something they teach at VP of Ops school...

 

[Phoenix]

Don't know for sure

Interestingly enough, our VP of Ops has his own unique grammitcal "style" - you can definitely tell that he doesn't have a secretary draft his memos.

Maybe odd writing styles are something they teach at VP of Ops school...

Well none of us know for sure who B19 is or is not, he may be our VP or not, its not really that important one way or the other.

What is clear is that B19 is firmly rooted in the management mentality and is completely anti Union under any circumstances. For these reasons alone its fun to take every opportunity he provides to kick him in the nuts over his anti Union pro management horse sh!t.:smash:

 

[B19 Flyer]

Well none of us know for sure who B19 is or is not, he may be our VP or not, its not really that important one way or the other.

What is clear is that B19 is firmly rooted in the management mentality and is completely anti Union under any circumstances. For these reasons alone its fun to take every opportunity he provides to kick him in the nuts over his anti Union pro management horse sh!t.:smash:

I didn't become anti-union until I got repeatedly screwed over by unions that I wasn't even a part of. I have yet to see where ANY union, especially in aviation, has made any carrier stronger. All I've seen is repeated failures by union leadership to support anything but their own membership at the expense of all the non-union workers and the overall health of the carrier. This cost to support the union takes away from infrastructure and the ability to retain talented employees that allow the carrier to run smoothly. In reality, when pilots complain because "management can't do anything right" it is usually because the funds required to provide support are going into the CBA instead of those employees that REALLY make things happen. Kicking me in the nuts does nothing more than provide proof that my employment by a non-union carrier is the best think I ever did for my career. Be careful what you ask for.

 

[GerryG]

This cost to support the union takes away from infrastructure and the aIn reality, when pilots complain because "management can't do anything right" it is usually because the funds required to provide support are going into the CBA instead of those employees that REALLY make things happen.

It's the pilots who "REALLY make things happen." Typical management attitude, you spend so much of your time in the office that you've lost all perspective. Without the pilots nothing anyone, managers, schedulers, or dispatchers do in the office matters. You are their to support us and in the case of Flight Options that support was severely lacking so we formed a union to support each other. Nothing more nothing less. You can spin it however you want Bob, but that's really all it's about.

 

[TheBigMan]

This cost to support the union takes away from infrastructure and the ability to retain talented employees that allow the carrier to run smoothly. In reality, when pilots complain because "management can't do anything right" it is usually because the funds required to provide support are going into the CBA instead of those employees that REALLY make things happen. Kicking me in the nuts does nothing more than provide proof that my employment by a non-union carrier is the best think I ever did for my career. Be careful what you ask for.

If Flight Options cared about the pilots or retaining talented employees, Management wouldn't kick "them" (the pilots) in the nuts either. "Be careful what YOU ask for."

 

[B19 Flyer]

If Flight Options cared about the pilots or retaining talented employees, Management wouldn't kick "them" (the pilots) in the nuts either. "Be careful what YOU ask for."

I'm not Bob, whoever the heck that is.... but I don't and never have believed that unions help any company do anything except bring it hardship.

 

[GerryG]

Ok, so you're not Bob, at least Bob has a dog in this hunt. Why don't you run along and play, you union busting management f**k.

 

[learflyer]

you guys are so tough behind your keyboards.

 

[GerryG]

Some of us are pretty tough out from behind them as well.

But I take your point in a way, until this pilot group as a whole grows some balls, we will be continouosly and unrelentingly subjected to managements predatory actions.

 

[learflyer]

Thanks, that's what I meant. I left alot of friends behind at Flops. Great bunch of pilots.

 

[IronManNDFW]

I don't kow who you think I am GerryG, but I was hired as an original RTA guy, now a FLOPPER.

I drive one of the Hawkers, my only office is in the pointy end of the aircraft.

Maybe you e-mailed me by mistake, maybe not, but whatever the case, you are sure making the point.

All is not well here.

 

[Ben Dover FLOPS]

Hey B19 (wasn't that a 70's song)

Thanks for our new vacation policy, too. So much for good managers taking the place of a union...

The power of the collective is the ONLY choice at FLOPS when faced with our inadequate management and their poor decision making abilities.