Options

[gunfyter]

If you want executive pay, become an executive...

Who get their monies by underpaying pilots!

 

[400pilot]

Wow you thought that up all by your self...awesome

Probably not.....sounds like that CAL exec.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

Who get their monies by underpaying pilots!

If that were true, then everyone else would be underpaid as well, not just the pilots. Line crew, maintenance personnel, inflight, etc.

And if THAT were true, then we'd be giving up on the theory of capitalism, wouldn't we?

Pay is set by the market for services rendered, period. There are exceptions, of course, including inept executives and pilots alike, and there are times when pay leads or lags that market, but over time it works pretty well.

 

[Options_SLAVE]

If that were true, then everyone else would be underpaid as well, not just the pilots. Line crew, maintenance personnel, inflight, etc.

And if THAT were true, then we'd be giving up on the theory of capitalism, wouldn't we?

Pay is set by the market for services rendered, period. There are exceptions, of course, including inept executives and pilots alike, and there are times when pay leads or lags that market, but over time it works pretty well.

YAWN


You're lost, kid. Go back to the CFI forum.

 

[Number$Cruncher]

YAWN


You're lost, kid. Go back to the CFI forum.

Yawn...days long ago.

 

[fischman]

If that were true, then everyone else would be underpaid as well, not just the pilots. Line crew, maintenance personnel, inflight, etc.

And if THAT were true, then we'd be giving up on the theory of capitalism, wouldn't we?

Pay is set by the market for services rendered, period. There are exceptions, of course, including inept executives and pilots alike, and there are times when pay leads or lags that market, but over time it works pretty well.

News flash!!!

They are underpaid.

 

[fischman]

B19, you are either Bob Tyler (a scab, by the way), or you are working with Bob Tyler, and probably have him reading over your shoulder telling you what to write, just like when a few mis-guided pilots tried to form the FAUX PAUX self-funded "association" to try to beat the 1108.

Your anti-union rhetoric is incredibly accurate to one of our VP's line of thinking. You also insinuate that "not everyone wants the union". Need we remind you the overwhelming majority of pilots who voted in this union, which was 67%? Need I also remind you that even more of a percentage of our pilots voted to start paying dues right away rather than wait until we have a contract? Wake up!

You need to literally quit drinking that company cool-aid. Your information is vaguely misguided, or what I should say is mis-directing, trying to paint a picture that quite frankly no one is buying, and you are seriously in the minority in your opinion of both "how good it is" at Options right now, and "the pilot group's opinion".

The pilot group's opinion has spoken, and spoken very loudly. The fact that you are speaking for the very small minority who are against unions is just that - the minority. In fact, you are not even speaking for those minority pilots, every post you speak is in protection of management and their decisions. It is very obvious what your agenda is here on this board, you are as transparent as a flight options Form 500. A fact the FAA (D.C., not your paid POI) is aware of, I might add.

You will fail to try to persuade people that the union is bad at Flight Options. If any pilot group in aviation ever needed a union, it is Flight Options. We are the largest 135 operator in the country. I have worked for several 135 operators and 121 operators, and even a couple part 91 corporations. I have worked for some very dangerous 135 operators when it came to flight operations and maintenance. Never have I seen such an illegal operation as Flight Options. Our maintenance people ask our pilots to do illegal actions every day. Theirs is the only phone lines that are not recorded when a pilot calls into the operations center, and that is no coincidence. Pilots who are either ignorant or don't care about being legal, and are more worried about their little "pilot incentive program" actually do the illegal things asked of them. The term "part 134 and a half" applies to Flight Options LLC, more than any other operator I have seen, and unless the Union and/or the FAA puts a stop to the illegal actions this company does as a matter of business practices, it is Flight Options, more than any other fractional, I would say would be the most likely company to have a fatality accident. Of course I do not want that to happen, and I do not wish harm on anyone. If it did happen it would destroy our company and our doors would close, which I do not want. I am merely stating the facts that I have been flying for several decades and this company is the worst I have ever seen when it comes to normal day to day operations, pilot and maintenance management.

No where else in my aviation career have I found a company so determined to look at the regulations of black and white, and look for the gray. No where in my aviation career have I seen a company lean so far away from the side of safety to accomplish a stupid flight. No where in my aviation career, which includes the airlines mind you, have I seen a company piss away money the way this one does. No where in my aviation career, which again, includes the airlines, have I seen such mismanagement, and unaccountability.

A company like ours will have to change, or it will go the way of Eastern, Pan Am, and US Air. No matter what you say, B19, this company's management is atrocious, and as you say all the time, " a company gets the union they deserve", and our company deserves a STRONG UNION.

The company speaks out of both sides of its mouth stating "safety first!" on one side to the owners, prospective clients, and the FAA, and "can't you carry that discrepancy until we can get you to a maintenance base in a few days? Are you willing to go over the FAR duty limitations for us to help us out? Can't you find that in the air instead of right now on the ground?" in the other.

Thank God we have a Union to help our pilots try to fix the illegal stuff.

B19 you are in the minority. I disagree with you in your opinion - that because we are a democracy that we absolutely do have "the right" to force the "minority" pilots to do what the pilot group as a whole and the MAJORITY of our pilots wants to do, and if you don't like it, there's the door, don't let it hit you in the gluteous maximus. You're in the minority - you won't be missed. That is not a dictatorship, that is how a democracy works - in fact, such a statement you made that having the democracy speak and rule is a dictatorship... is something a dictator would say. It is a dictator that doesn't want the people deciding how things should be. And by the way - with no union, no single pilot had any say in anything, having a say is something you dictators don't like us to have and is something we gained with the UNION, and is something we only have as a group and a democracy.

Our pilot group tried it for years to let the company "dictate" how we should operate. . What did it get us besides "part 134 and a half" operations, and giving our pilots the lowest salaries and work rules not only in the fractional industry, but most of the entire aviation industry; a company who denies even the most senior pilots vacations as a matter of principle, only to force us all to take them when it is most convenient for the company, with little or no notice to the employee; What did it get us except a 200% increase in health care costs this year to cover a 50% jump in costs; What did it get us except the company deciding with an e-mail and no input from the pilot group on what our domiciles will be today, what schedules we will work, who gets to upgrade and who doesn't, and changes to our work rules that continue to erode our quality of life?

Yes sir, mister dictator sir, Thank God for the Union. It must be excrutiating for you to see your dictatorial powers being slowly stripped away, day by day, and every month of negotiations, to be slowly forced into the reality that "some day, this is all going to end" - and "those nasty union pilots" are going to get their wish, and tell us when they will go to work, how long they will work, what they will be paid to go to work, when they will take vacation, what they will consider is required to be paid overtime, and where they want to live, and we won't be able to stop them".

You must hate the fact that soon management will have to share some of that profit with the employee group.

I for one have absolutely no problem with the power of the democracy our pilot group has to force the minority to do what the pilot group as a whole wants. This isn't burger king. You don't get it your way. You get it OUR way, and if you don't like it, go to Burger King. I hear their health care is cheaper anyway.




Options_SLAVE - Breaking the shackles!

Great post!!! Your 1108 brothers at NJA support you!

 

[fischman]

Is he truly prospering or has he earned the right to make more money than the rest because he has the most responsibility? Is it because he is smart enough to be the CEO and the rest of us aren't? Typical union statement. If you are smart enough to start a company or lead a company, the unions still feel that you should automatically spread the wealth amongst all the workers rather than take any profit yourself for any of your efforts. Yep, the unions will complain about a CEO making 20 million a year in a multibillion dollar a year company, but when the contract sucks so much money out of the company that it's forced nearly into bankrupcty, the union will take no responsibility in acting quickly enough to stop the inevitable, even after the CEO gives his entire salary up.

BWWWAAAAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
Seriously. Thanks for the laugh...

 

[Phoenix]

Bump

Well not to throw off this debate about pro union vs anti union, good management vs bad management, but this thread was started to question hiring at Options. Now that we have had a exodus of pilots and hiring is to open in limited and previously restricted locations, I think this original subject matter is more pertinent. I have been at Options for almost 9 years and have a vested interest in staying here until we have a CBA or the company turns the lights out. With all the other options, no pun intended, out there for young pilots just starting out, I would highly recommend that any prospective new hire look elsewhere. Options is going through some ugly times and will not be a position worth having until our contract is settled. The unfortunate byproduct of this will be that most intelligent young pilots will heed these words and secure positions at other operators. What will be left and what Options will be hiring are the bottom of the bucket, undesirables, that can't get a job anywhere else, left overs that become future problems. Invest your time and efforts where they are appreciated, that would not be at Options. *****

 

[gunfyter]

If that were true, then everyone else would be underpaid as well, not just the pilots. Line crew, maintenance personnel, inflight, etc.

And if THAT were true, then we'd be giving up on the theory of capitalism, wouldn't we?

Pay is set by the market for services rendered, period. There are exceptions, of course, including inept executives and pilots alike, and there are times when pay leads or lags that market, but over time it works pretty well.

The theory of Capitalism = Form a CARTEL and JACK UP PRICES.

Ala Standard Oil AT&T and OPEC. Not to mention the Banking Cartel.

You need to get a copy of HOW THE WORLD REALLY WORKS by Robert Jones @ amazon.com

The LAST thing in the World a Capitalist wants is PRICE COMPETITION. And the last thing I want is wage competition from someone who will work cheap.