NWA wants DOH

[Noserider76]

Thee isn't money in cargo. The planes are flying one way empty, and the other way partially full. There is a glut of cargo operators to the Orient right now. It is losing money for the cargo only operation. Look it up. It is being continued to preserve position.

I understand what you're saying but we've lost a sh*t load of revenue over the years with the "there's no money in cargo" mantra. We don't have the belly space to make a dent in what's waiting on the ramps worldwide. My point is that's pilot jobs (for all) and a business gone, never to return if we let them get rid of it again.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

2025 assuming minimal cycles. Put them in ATL on nine to twelve cycles a day and those go way down.
It does not matter what they have left in them. What matters is the total cost to operate.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I also did not say 01/20/09. Read it again. I states a likeliness or around two more years for the nines like GW staying in the White House after 01.20.2009. Not the same date.
Thy may stay a little past two years, but the plan to date has them leaving quite quickly.

 

[DTW320]

I also did not say 01/20/09. Read it again. I states a likeliness or around two more years for the nines like GW staying in the White House after 01.20.2009. Not the same date.
Thy may stay a little past two years, but the plan to date has them leaving quite quickly.

Re-Read my post.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

DAL is replacing AF on PHL-CDG.
744's ATL-TLV
330's ATL-HNL
some 320's to SLC (I think that's an old one)
787's based in BOS (heard that from a DAL flt ops upper level manager.....I know, I know,....it hasn't flown yet)

First one is possible and probable
Second one as well. Needed 765 for lift to Europe and Africa so they took them off the HNL run. Need a heavy cargo lifter back on the route.
Third one, Definitely add CVG to that too.
MD-88 to DTW, and MSP to add a new old one.
Fourth, Maybe when the 900 comes out. Until then it will be another type of jet that is on property. BOS is looking better and better for a base.

His talking points come from me....

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I did not retract anything.

 

[General Lee]

So, you're saying that the -9's (not including DAL -9-88's) will be gone by 1/20/09? How 'bout a friendly wager? Oh wait, I see you have retracted that analogy....

BTW, you and Generally need to have a little PM conference to get your talking points straight vis-a-vis the 747-400 fleet. One of you is saying DAL has big plans for them, the other is saying they are headed for the scrap heap.

How about we lighten this thread up a bit with some new rumors. I'll start, although, since I don't spend my life here like some do, some may be old news:

DAL is replacing AF on PHL-CDG.
744's ATL-TLV
330's ATL-HNL
some 320's to SLC (I think that's an old one)
787's based in BOS (heard that from a DAL flt ops upper level manager.....I know, I know,....it hasn't flown yet)

Whatta you got?

Huh? I never said the 744s were going away. The 742s, on the other hand, very likely. And that is not just me saying it. I will PM you with something from above.

As far as rumors go, yes, I have heard the one about AF getting replaced on PHL--CDG by DL. AF also will add a JFK to LHR, replacing the current LAX to LHR (giving us a total of 3 daily with AF from JFK to LHR). Your 744s will also do Sao Paulo from ATL, and the A330s will do a bunch of S America. I was told some 767-400s to DTW. Also MD90s and MD88s to MSP to fly to both coasts, and A319s/20s to SLC so more East Coast cities could be reached (MD90s can't hit farther than PIT and YYZ from SLC).

There is no doubt the plans for our airline after the DCC will be interesting. Apparently it will take about 3 years to add crew bases with those new planes, and until then there will be a lot of DH'ing. That will add credit and time (in terms of days) for those particular trips.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Also the 744's are on short term leases. They end of these leases coenside with the original delivery schedule to the 787's. We have argued this one before.
Now with the 787 and everything surrounding it in question, what happens next?
Well, there are a few options on the table. Doing long term leases on the 744's is an option, but not a good one. Boeing may offer short term leases as well, but only for some major assurances from DAL that we will be buying the replacements from them. That boxes us in the corner.
What is the other option??
LR's. We can convert some on the rolling options to arrive when the scheduled arrivals of the 787 were to occur. Look for it

So that we do not get in to another argument on DC-9 costs. We are not talking about CSAM. We are talking about the millions spent on these heavy checks. We have parked 757's for the same reason. Only difference is that it is getting harder and harder to manufacture parts for the 9. That itself adds to the cost of the airframe.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

On top of that, simply put the 9 will cause a lot of issues long term in the way the Airspace is going to e utilized in and around ATL.

 

[DTW320]

Huh? I never said the 744s were going away. The 742s, on the other hand, very likely. And that is not just me saying it. I will PM you with something from above.

As far as rumors go, yes, I have heard the one about AF getting replaced on PHL--CDG by DL. AF also will add a JFK to LHR, replacing the current LAX to LHR (giving us a total of 3 daily with AF from JFK to LHR). Your 744s will also do Sao Paulo from ATL, and the A330s will do a bunch of S America. I was told some 767-400s to DTW. Also MD90s and MD88s to MSP to fly to both coasts, and A319s/20s to SLC so more East Coast cities could be reached (MD90s can't hit farther than PIT and YYZ from SLC).

There is no doubt the plans for our airline after the DCC will be interesting. Apparently it will take about 3 years to add crew bases with those new planes, and until then there will be a lot of DH'ing. That will add credit and time (in terms of days) for those particular trips.


Bye Bye---General Lee

No, I know what you've said....I was referring to ACL65's comments that he has restated above about expiring leases on 744's meaning that they are going away and are not in the plan. Unlike some here, I don't claim to be an expert on it. All I can say is that our 744 guys are hearing from their fleet people that we, meaning DAL, have big plans for it and they are actually looking for more of them. Have also heard big 330 plans for ATL. RA loves'em. Friend of mine is a facilities guy at HQ in ATL and has said they are being aggressively tasked to find gate space for the 330 and 744 in ATL. I agree that for a while there will be a LOT of DHing to position crews. Works for me. You guys will LOVE DTW and MSP!

 

[General Lee]

No, I know what you've said....I was referring to ACL65's comments that he has restated above about expiring leases on 744's meaning that they are going away and are not in the plan. Unlike some here, I don't claim to be an expert on it. All I can say is that our 744 guys are hearing from their fleet people that we, meaning DAL, have big plans for it and they are actually looking for more of them. Have also heard big 330 plans for ATL. RA loves'em. Friend of mine is a facilities guy at HQ in ATL and has said they are being aggressively tasked to find gate space for the 330 and 744 in ATL. I agree that for a while there will be a LOT of DHing to position crews. Works for me. You guys will LOVE DTW and MSP!

I have heard the same. He does love the A330, and the 777. We are hearing a major shift of airplanes around to maximize revenue potential, which is a good thing. I bet the 767ERs will see more 6 day trips to Europe with a stop in MSP or DTW in the middle. Sounds good to me. Also, the Asia flying (even intra Asia) will see the ejection of the NWA 757s and add our 767ERs, for a cargo benefit also. Guam and Saipan should be something different for our guys. I think a lot of us will see places that were "foreign" to us before, and something interesting now. Then, in 5 years when the fences come down, we can all bid on what we want. No doubt we will work at an interesting place soon.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I totally agree that they are looking for places to stick the 744. It is a tough fleet to manage. We need more of them to make it work. I agree with that too. There is just not going to be a ton of them around. With the 787 delay the used market is not what DAL was planning for.
They were hoping to find some used 744's, and 777's on the used market for cheap. Problem is that no one will be getting rid of them. The ones people are dropping, operators like UPS have spoken for.
Yes, we have a unique situation with you guys coming to ATL. For the transition period your jets will need to be serviced by IAM(NWA) employees. That is a huge cost as we will in essence need to double or triple the size of the NWA unionized force here in ATL. That means that we need to find two or three gates next to each other that we can "give" to NWA for this tranistion period. It is a cost worth paying due to the fact that yes, we need the 744's on places like NRT, and TLV, because we need the 777's other places.

You say you know a facitlties manager down here. Which one? Is he traveling a lot. I bet so. Those guys are tasked with writing all the contracts on the new cities we will be serving.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Agreed that RA like the 330. It does a lot. It is also good to have both manufactures on the property. It allows us competitive pricing.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

No the 744's are in the plan. The plan was to phase them out with 787 deliveries. (NWA's plan not DAL's. I should be more specific, sorry.)
Our plan is to use them. The issue is that they are on short term (not long term 10-20 year) leases. They will have to be refinanced, or returned. IE a decision process on how to maintain the fleet until the 787-900 and 1000 are options.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Jesus ACL65PILOT.....do you have a life man?