NWA wants DOH

[Superpilot92]

Okay but no matter what you should be junior to every DAL because you fly the "furlough Jet". No reason I should suffer because you didn't get hired by DAL.

first off I never applied to delta, secondly thanks for the flamebait response it's people like you that ruin any chance at a decent discussion on this forum.:angryfire

 

[MXAV8R]

first off I never applied to delta, secondly thanks for the flamebait response it's people like you that ruin any chance at a decent discussion on this forum.:angryfire

IT'S NOT A FLAME. It's FACT. Why should I suffer because YOU went to NWA and I went DAL? Why is it so hard for you to understand that should the DC9 leave, you (not me) should leave too? You have your "supercalifragilistic expialidocious wide body" flying and I have job security. That's why I went to DAL.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

It's not like you did not know they were going to merge last year when they hired you......

Now that is flame:angryfire

 

[Superpilot92]

IT'S NOT A FLAME. It's FACT. Why should I suffer because YOU went to NWA and I went DAL? Why is it so hard for you to understand that should the DC9 leave, you (not me) should leave too? You have your "supercalifragilistic expialidocious wide body" flying and I have job security. That's why I went to DAL.

Its called a fence, that provides the short termed protection for your "assumed" near term risk. Your Staple job is a long term loss for the NWA pilots. Thats a fact. Seniority grab at its best. By all means fence the 9's for as long as they are here. As long as the credit market stays the way it is and fuel keeps going down the viability of the DC9 staying longer only gets better. Congrats on getting hired at DAL if that was your goal, but dont be childish when talking to others who didnt go to or want to go to Delta. At least your special in your eyes i suppose :beer:

P.S you act like DAL was the end all for you? Its a good thing UAL didnt work out for you huh?

Question...I had the phone screen over 72 hours ago. No email yet. Does this mean I am dead in the water?

You could have easily ended up at UAL, that just goes to show you shouldnt act like you're any better than a NWA pilot just because you went to DAL. In the end we are all about to be in this together.

 

[Superpilot92]

It's not like you did not know they were going to merge last year when they hired you......

Now that is flame:angryfire

When i interviewed (2007) they werent talking about merging,At least not publicly. Also we have all seen how merger talks have gone over the past couple years, UAL/CAL, USAIR/DAL, etc. Hopefully this one at least works out for us ALL, since it appears like its actually going to go through. :beer:

 

[MXAV8R]

Its called a fence, that provides the short termed protection for your "assumed" near term risk. Your Staple job is a long term loss for the NWA pilots. Thats a fact. Seniority grab at its best. By all means fence the 9's for as long as they are here. As long as the credit market stays the way it is and fuel keeps going down the viability of the DC9 staying longer only gets better. Congrats on getting hired at DAL if that was your goal, but dont be childish when talking to others who didnt go to or want to go to Delta. At least your special in your eyes i suppose :beer:

P.S you act like DAL was the end all for you? Its a good thing UAL didnt work out for you huh?



You could have easily ended up at UAL, that just goes to show you shouldnt act like you're any better than a NWA pilot just because you went to DAL. In the end we are all about to be in this together.

So by me interviewing with United and Delta then going to Delta...that's a bad thing to you?? Damn me for being so careful in career choices..what was I thinking!
Also when have I acted "special" or "better." And why do you get sooo offended that I love where I work? I'm sorry that you're not as proud of your airline as I am of mine. In any case welcome aboard!

 

[recallsomeday]

So by me interviewing with United and Delta then going to Delta...that's a bad thing to you?? Damn me for being so careful in career choices..what was I thinking!
Also when have I acted "special" or "better." And why do you get sooo offended that I love where I work? I'm sorry that you're not as pround of your airline as I am of mine.

Uhhh.... pretty tough (or educated in your mind) choice when you only get one job offer.

 

[Superpilot92]

So by me interviewing with United and Delta then going to Delta...that's a bad thing to you??Never said it was a bad thing, actually i said its a good thing it didnt work out for you. Damn me for being so careful in career choices..what was I thinking!So by it not working out that = a good career choice?
Also when have I acted "special" or "better." referance YOUR posts below And why do you get sooo offended that I love where I work? I dont, reread my posts i said congrats on getting hired somewhere you wanted to work. I'm sorry that you're not as proud of your airline as I am of mine. In any case welcome aboard thats where you are wrong i am proud of where i work and i am also proud of where i will work.!

In any case it looks like we have both made good career choices whether its by default or not. In the end we will all be on the same team working towards the same career goals.

Okay but no matter what you should be junior to every DAL because you fly the "furlough Jet". No reason I should suffer because you didn't get hired by DAL.

IT'S NOT A FLAME. It's FACT. Why should I suffer because YOU went to NWA and I went DAL? Why is it so hard for you to understand that should the DC9 leave, you (not me) should leave too? You have your "supercalifragilistic expialidocious wide body" flying and I have job security. That's why I went to DALYou started with DAL after the merger was announced didnt you? So you knew what you were getting into did you not?.

DTW320,You're a D&CK. Pure and simple. It's a shame you're going to be part of my airline...

Man you NWA guys are just so blind...sad

 

[anewunion]

D.O.H will never happen. NWA MEC better come up with a new plan, and soon because November 20th is fast approaching. Remember, Arbitration is like a court trial. Whoever comes up with a better case wins. Plain and simple. If you have a weak defense, you lose.

 

[General Lee]

Well of course NW's opening position is DOH, just like Delta's was to create a ratio that stapled 500 NW pilots to the bottom of the list. These are opening positions. I'm no expert on negotiations, but I would assume both sides start on polar opposites, then end up somewhere in the middle.

Can we all (Delta and NW brothers) recognize this and not let this thread turn into another bloodbath of grenades being lobed back and forth?

You will be losing your 742s shortly, and some of your DC9s. That means pilots. We are expanding. Your 787s are not coming for awhile, if ever (may be converted to 777s anyway). And NO, if we started at one end, it would have been a staple---compared to your ridiculous DOH argument, that hasn't worked in a long long time. We came up with something fair, to all pilots. Our proposal will be a lot closer than yours when it is all over. There will also be fences, that will keep the greenbooks off the 777s for 5 or so years, and force them to upgrade on the 744s, where they should have been years ago. Thanks to the new manning policy for flights over 12 hours, NWA will have to add an extra Captain (2 Capts, 2 FOs) to each flight, giving plenty of greenbooks the opportunity to bump the junior redbook Capt to relief Capt during the flight. We shouldn't have to clean up that mess---with our new 777s coming. Nope.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[AirportBum]

So by me interviewing with United and Delta then going to Delta...that's a bad thing to you?? Damn me for being so careful in career choices..what was I thinking!
Also when have I acted "special" or "better." And why do you get sooo offended that I love where I work? I'm sorry that you're not as proud of your airline as I am of mine. In any case welcome aboard!

Superpilot, gotta stop wasting time on this idiot. I'm with you, but he'll never see your point. It's a shame, because 99% of the DAL pilots you meet are great guys, but THIS is where the "$hit don't stink" stigma comes from.

There are a few bad (or blindly arrogant) apples in every barrel. Don't judge the whole group by this guy.

MX, I'm glad you're proud of where you work. However your tact and humility leave plenty to be desired. Consider how you may come across to those less fortunate (or dare I say lucky???) than yourself.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

deleted.... not worth it.

 

[Fly4hire]

D.O.H will never happen. NWA MEC better come up with a new plan, and soon because November 20th is fast approaching. Remember, Arbitration is like a court trial. Whoever comes up with a better case wins. Plain and simple. If you have a weak defense, you lose.

I hope your Merger Cmte has a better understanding of the arbitration process than you do.

 

[jetflier]

I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night:


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I

The duties of a tribunal will be determined by a combination of the provisions of the arbitration agreement and by the procedural laws which apply in the seat of the arbitration. The extent to which the laws of the seat of the arbitration permit "party autonomy" (the ability of the parties to set out their own procedures and regulations) determines the interplay between the two.
However, in almost all countries the tribunal owes several non-derogable duties. These will normally be:

• to act fairly and impartially between the parties, and to allow each party a reasonable opportunity to put their case and to deal with the case of their opponent (sometimes shortened to: complying with the rules of "natural justice"); and
• to adopt procedures suitable to the circumstances of the particular case, so as to provide a fair means for resolution of the dispute.[19]

In American arbitration law there exists a small but significant body of case law which deals with the power of the courts to intervene where the decision of an arbitrator is in fundamental disaccord with the applicable principles of law or the contract.[23]

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Well, ALL the DAL guys off in ATL should attend the LEC meeting today from 1000-1300 if they are around.

 

[Schwanker]

I'll stand by my initial prognostication, relative seniority by pay and equipment.

I guess you could lump them into 3 categories then:

NWA's 60+ 747's/330s with DAL's 10 777s.

75/76 Class aircraft (large NB/tiny old WB)

737/A320/DC-9/MD-80

Combine those groupings with a dynamic list to consider respective retirements and you're getting closer. Without dynamic, this would be a huge windfall for the DAL side as DAL has very little premium widebody flying as they only have 10 777s-that's it!

Schwanker

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Oh god give it up. It is out of our hands.

 

[MJ42]

Superpilot, gotta stop wasting time on this idiot. I'm with you, but he'll never see your point. It's a shame, because 99% of the DAL pilots you meet are great guys, but THIS is where the "$hit don't stink" stigma comes from.

There are a few bad (or blindly arrogant) apples in every barrel. Don't judge the whole group by this guy.

MX, I'm glad you're proud of where you work. However your tact and humility leave plenty to be desired. Consider how you may come across to those less fortunate (or dare I say lucky???) than yourself.

Well said! How much you want to bet MX was hired in (mid) '08?

 

[MCDU]

Posted 2 years ago by FelixF16

As a former Delta 73N F/O, I’ve read with amusement the excited postings of those contemplating a career with my former employer…

Now a first-year law student, I recently sat in on a no-fault auto insurance arbitration hearing. The plaintiff, aged 25 or so, was trying to recover for medical bills and lost wages resulting from a car accident. Part of his testimony involved his compensation. The hourly pay rate for the unskilled labor he performs as a utility company equipment yard operator is nearly $30.00 per hour. Straight pay puts him right at $60K per year, with fully-paid health bennies, retirement, etc. With the opportunity to work at double-pay two days per week, this guy could easily pull-in $70-$90K per year just by working hard. No skills required, no special training, no "recurrent," no FAA medical to pass. This is simply a young guy with no formal education who works as a union-represented laborer. I believe that his compensation shows him to be well-represented indeed.
By contrast, major airline pilots have expressly approved the implosion of their - and my former - profession. Rather than capitalizing on unity and strategic action to hold the line and thus force management to look elsewhere for cost cuts, we (actually, and more correctly, "most of us") voted to implement the mass wastage of a formerly valuable career. I truly believe that pilot unions failed to counter the management-fomented fear and doubt that caused most pilots to, even if reluctantly, knuckle-under.

My classmates scoff - perhaps a bit unrealistically, but they do indeed scoff - at jobs that begin at $150K per year. It’s clear that prospective new Delta pilots will now queue-up by the thousands for an opportunity to earn less than one-third of that figure. It is truly disheartening for me to know so many great friends who have been - and will for years to come be - subjected to low pay, loss of retirement, and poor working conditions negotiated by the sad lot that represents Delta pilots. It's much more depressing to understand that the whole mess was affirmed by former colleagues who lacked the confidence to stand-up for themselves and their families. And I'm now very much amazed in anticipating the droves who'll compete to be the next group to be played by Delta (or USAirways, or NWA, as the case may turn out to be) management, and end-up disappointed with their union representation.

Best to all who tried in vain to keep this profession viable. To those now entering the fray, good luck.

 

[Klamath]

Oh god give it up. It is out of our hands.

Now we're talking sense, I'm with you ACL. Looking forward to Nov 20 so we can get this behind us.