NWA wants DOH

[MJ42]

Yes, but how many years does it take to do that?

A lot, that's because it's desirable. But, just so I understand your thinking, why does it matter? How long would it take you to hold a narrow body line in ATL? Just asking because I'm curious, I'm not trying to start more debating on something we have no control over.

 

[AWACoff]

Just wait til NWA pilots hired in 1998 see that they will be junior to 2007 Delta pilots. Let the fire works begin.
Just two years ago Delta was in BK and had over a thousand pilots on furlough. Then they hire like crazy and all these pilots feel that they have better prospects then a NWA pilot who has been there for 10 years. What a concept.

M

MCDU,

The thing is, they COULD have better prospects than a 10 year NWA pilot. Conversely, the NWA pilot could have better prospects (assuming you mean future career potential). I just had this discussion with my captain tonight... all we could figure out is that this is your standard goat rodeo as hard facts are difficult to find. These integrations are more art than science.

 

[MCDU]

USAPA or ALPA would not have changed a thing up to now at USAIR. ALPA had no way to get the ALPA NIC SLI together.

How people forget that a DOH SLI has protection to ones seat they had a time of merger and that in 10 years the only pilots left will be mostly AWA. Average age is 56 in the East and all those 30 year old AWA pilots will have to wait their turn. Hopefully ALPA can once again put DOH as a foundation to being a Union pilot and not base it on luck.
NWA and Delta are looking a lot like the AWA AAA debacle.

M

 

[imacdog]

How people forget that a DOH SLI has protection to ones seat they had a time of merger and that in 10 years the only pilots left will be mostly AWA.

We can only hope. The The USAPA-initiating East pilots are a disgrace to the industry.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I can hold a narrow body line in ATL, have been for well over a year. I can also hold a line on the ER here in ATL.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Can't happen. Contract becomes effective the day of DCC, with a SLI. No matter what happens we will have an SLI before DCC. In essence there is no way to fight the out come. Our ALPA leaders learned that from USAir.

 

[ThisistheDream]

If there was a ratio type intergration 7 to 5 mixed where DOH was used to keep things fair in cases where a NWA pilot hired in 1990 wouldnt not be senior to a DAL pilot in 1985 or a DAL pilot hired in 2007 would not be senior to a NWA pilot hired in 2001. etc. Then have aircraft fences for 5yrs to protect pilots who want to stay in there current aircraft, so if any DAL pilot want to bid a Delta aircraft they get priority over a NWA pilot 1st, then it goes to seniority after that. After 5 years when the massive retirements start people will be able to only move up from what they hold now!! Everybody has to give to GAIN the benefit of being part of the worlds largest airline. It will be interesting to see what happens when the aircraft get moved around ex. will a NWA pilot bid 320 fo in MSP to stay home based or take a A330 base in ATL or SEA and have to commute or will a DAL pilot in 767 ATL based bid 737 FO or mdd 88 in ATL or commute to JFK or MSP to stay on a 767?? I know there are a million of what if scenarios but, everyone is so concerned about being able to hold what they hold now but from what delta is saying about putting the right aircraft in the right stop there could be a fair amount of aircraft changing bases and for pilots that live in base that will be more important then what you fly

 

[wscrj]

Surf....niiiiiice....

And thats what she said.

Happiness is putting MCDoodle on the ignore list.

 

[MCDU]

Surf....niiiiiice....



Happiness is putting MCDoodle on the ignore list.

Another Mesa puke weighs in.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

And thing is possible, I just to not see DOH being part of it.

 

[jetjockey#1]

Just wait til NWA pilots hired in 1998 see that they will be junior to 2007 Delta pilots. Let the fire works begin.

But yet, if NWA was merging with USAIR east, DOH should be the way to go, right? Based on your opinion, it would be unfair to place a 1991 USAIR at the bottom of NWA. I guess this pilot would hold captain right away, and NWA guys would have to wait for their turn.

And in addition, USAIR should get credit for all the retirements they have coming up, after all they do have a lot more than you all.

Just two years ago Delta was in BK and had over a thousand pilots on furlough. Then they hire like crazy and all these pilots feel that they have better prospects then a NWA pilot who has been there for 10 years. What a concept.

I know what a concept, It could be so wonderful for you all, if you could only merge with USAIR. You all could get DOH, little overlap, great contract.... you guys would be so happy, and poor DAL would have to grow on its own.....We would really miss you, but somehow I think we would be ok... have a nice day, enjoy the great contract.

M

DAL4EVER

 

[800Dog]

Hopefully ALPA can once again put DOH as a foundation to being a Union pilot and not base it on luck.

M[/quote]

More to it than luck. Pilots choose an airline for many reasons. Pay, benefits, fleet, growth, domiciles, financial stability, culture etc. etc. Some make better decisions than others and are hired by more desirable companies. Luck is but one factor! My suggestion, run for national ALPA office and work to change ALPA merger policy if it bothers you so much.

 

[michael707767]

If there was a ratio type intergration 7 to 5 mixed where DOH was used to keep things fair in cases where a NWA pilot hired in 1990 wouldnt not be senior to a DAL pilot in 1985 or a DAL pilot hired in 2007 would not be senior to a NWA pilot hired in 2001. etc.

What does DOH have to do with anything. You need to get over the idea that your DOH affects where you go in a merger. Right or wrong, it is not a factor in an ALPA merger.

Argue aircraft, or pay rates, or retirements, etc. I'm tired of hearing about when you were hired. Doesn't mean a thing.

 

[Turtle21]

Excerpt from article below titled: Delta, NWA pilots lay out arguments over seniority
But Daniel M. Katz, an attorney for Northwest pilots, told the arbitration panel in his opening statement that the only truly fair way to integrate the two lists so that pilots on each side understand they are where they belong is to do it based on the date they were hired.
___

DOH is to a union what the gold standard is to money.

Whoever is led astray from it by glittery charms will have plenty of reasons to feel like it is antiquated and no longer useful, only to find the result is always the same. A melt down is unavoidable just like Wall Street is showing us now.

 

[MCDU]

Right on turtle

M

 

[kwick]

No dog in this fight, but because of the DAL early-outs, only DOH with fences will work.

Don't let some arbitrators ruin your airline, your time invested is worth no more or less than your fellow pilot's.

Relative seniority is a windfall for DAL pilots because of over 2000 early retirements.

If you want to win the lottery buy a ticket, don't do it at the expense of your fellow pilot.

 

[michael707767]

Relative seniority is a windfall for DAL pilots because of over 2000 early retirements.

If you want to win the lottery buy a ticket, don't do it at the expense of your fellow pilot.

People keep forgetting that the vast majority of the pilots who took early retirement only went a little early, and would have been gone before the rules changed from age 60 to 65.

 

[MCDU]

Without these early outs there would have been no new hires and your SNL would look toally different now.

M

 

[Turtle21]

People keep forgetting that the vast majority of the pilots who took early retirement only went a little early, and would have been gone before the rules changed from age 60 to 65.

I never cease to be amazed when those who argue against DOH always revert back to attempts at diminishing the things that define DOH. In its place, they never supply anything more sophisticated than an offer to enter into a "fight to the death" among gladiators, so to speak.

ALPA has already suffered its "black monday" because it left DOH. It has already done great harm to the profession and will prove to be ALPA's own downfall.

 

[Axel]

MCDU is living, breathing, ranting proof that the DL and NWA guys need to work real hard with each other on this integration, even if it causes some pain. A good agreement is one that everyone hates equally.

As has been amply proven, almost anything would be better than the slow motion train wreck in progress at the new and improved USAir.

For the record: Since I am not party to either the AWA/US thing or the DL/NWA thing, I am not going to take a side. (Not that it would do anything but add to the sea of noise if I did.) But you DL/NWA guys have been given a cautionary tale that shines brighter than the sun.

Good luck.