NWA wants DOH

[Bringupthebird]

USAPA or ALPA would not have changed a thing up to now at USAIR. ALPA had no way to get the ALPA NIC SLI together.
M

Absolutely untrue!

ALPA National should have put the AAAMEC into receivership when it pulled out of joint negotiations. It owed the AWA pilots the duty to see that the rules were followed. Instead they traded ransom notes on negotiations the east had long since killed. Criticism of ALPA's molly-coddling the east in hopes of keeping them from bolting are justified. Blaming ALPA national for the mess the east was in is not.

Going along with Single Carrier status was another shortsighted move on ALPA's part. They should have seen what was coming and fought that tooth and nail, instead Prater was in DC biting his nails.

Strong decisive action from ALPA national would not have kept the east from bolting, but they would have kept USAPA out of the picture until the SLI and joint contract were completed.

But I'm probably mising the big picture. The east pilots have long wanted to show their dominance over - well, anybody. Perhaps nothing will satisfy them short of complete liquidation. Then will come the moans of "The good old days, when USAPA showed 'em who's boss".

 

[clippyrip]

Argue aircraft, or pay rates, or retirements, etc. I'm tired of hearing about when you were hired. Doesn't mean a thing.

Just remember, you are a Delta pilot and this why you feel this way. Its fine, but realize you are biased.

 

[Turtle21]

Absolutely untrue!

ALPA National should have put the AAAMEC into receivership .

They flirted with the idea (they did replace the PHL reps and propped up the ALPA stooges named Marshall and Lance in CLT).

But even ALPA knew that the whole reason for the mess was that ALPA had no SLI method that could produce a fair and equitable result for at least 51% of the pilots, so they were starring down the barrel of a decertification that would cost them $11 million a year.

If they had forced the NIC it would not have saved the mothers-ship of ALPA, and to bitchslap pilots on the way out would only serve to prolong the time in which ALPA could have any hope of wooing their wayward street walkers back into the fold.

 

[Noserider76]

DOH is to a union what the gold standard is to money.

DOH in the airline industry is simply a way to determine your relative seniority within your own company for bidding, non-reving etc. It's has little to no importance in a merger as has been determined by multiple modern arbitrations.

 

[Turtle21]

DOH in the airline industry is simply a way to determine your relative seniority within your own company for bidding, non-reving etc. It's has little to no importance in a merger as has been determined by multiple modern arbitrations.

And that is exactly why ALPA isn't what it claims to be.

 

[michael707767]

Just remember, you are a Delta pilot and this why you feel this way. Its fine, but realize you are biased.

yes, I am. But I have been consistant. I don't believe DOH should apply in any merger. No two dates of hire are the same. I believed that when it looked like we might be buying Jetblue, I believed it when AWA bought USAir, and I believe it now.

Unless you can look me in the eye and tell me you think all mergers should be DOH (NWA-USair for example, or more extreme Delta-Comair, or even with a national list) then your DOH argument doesn't fly.

Bottom line though is ALPA policy is not DOH. If you want it changed, then try to get it changed. Until then, try to make an argument that fits within the guidelines set up by ALPA policy.

 

[Noserider76]

And that is exactly why ALPA isn't what it claims to be.

What? An Airline Pilots Association? Seems like one to me.

 

[Occam's Razor]

And that is exactly why ALPA isn't what it claims to be.

Ah! A bile-tinged non-sequitur.

Find any reference to Date of Hire in ALPA Merger Policy.

The SLI Arbitration concerning DAL and NWA is not being conducted under the the aegis of ALPA Merger Policy.

Your rock misses you. Crawl back under.

 

[Turtle21]

Ah! A bile-tinged non-sequitur.

Find any reference to Date of Hire in ALPA Merger Policy.

The SLI Arbitration concerning DAL and NWA is not being conducted under the the aegis of ALPA Merger Policy.

Your rock misses you. Crawl back under.

You have such a short sighted perspective, and so little desire to look. To find DOH in ALPA policy you would have to go back to yonder years when they were a union. Which was the point you so eloquently tried to change.:laugh:

 

[ACL65PILOT]

And they changed it because it was not working for the membership.

 

[Turtle21]

And they changed it because it was not working for the membership.

The membership... yep.

Well...yeah... I remember when "the membership" voted on that.

And its a good thing "the membership" voted to changed it, because it works so much better for "the membership." AAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[PuffDriver]

Ah! A bile-tinged non-sequitur.

Find any reference to Date of Hire in ALPA Merger Policy.

The SLI Arbitration concerning DAL and NWA is not being conducted under the the aegis of ALPA Merger Policy.

Your rock misses you. Crawl back under.

Man, it gets tiresome correcting you guys. Do you ever read?

From Delta MEC update 08-01 paragraph 5


"The issue for resolution before the Arbitrators will be the fair and equitable integration of the pre-merger Delta and Northwest seniority lists consistent with ALPA Merger and Fragmentation Policy (“ALPA Merger Policy”).

 

[Occam's Razor]

Man, it gets tiresome correcting you guys. Do you ever read?

From Delta MEC update 08-01 paragraph 5


"The issue for resolution before the Arbitrators will be the fair and equitable integration of the pre-merger Delta and Northwest seniority lists consistent with ALPA Merger and Fragmentation Policy (“ALPA Merger Policy”).

What was the date of the PID, and implementation of Merger Policy?

Don't be cute.

You know both MEC's worked a deal (Called a Process LOA) that was "consistent" with Polcy, but not driven by, or conducted under it.

Don't post drunk.

 

[FDJ2]

A lot, that's because it's desirable.

What makes it so desirable?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

No it was something that superseded ALPA's policy.
We did it so that we could tweak a few things and improve on the issues that USA so eloquently showed.

 

[PuffDriver]

What was the date of the PID, and implementation of Merger Policy?

Don't be cute.

You know both MEC's worked a deal (Called a Process LOA) that was "consistent" with Polcy, but not driven by, or conducted under it.

Don't post drunk.

Negative, the only thing that is not consistent with it are the timelines, the PID declaration, and the makeup of meditation. The process along with the method of determination IS ALPA merger policy.

IOW it IS ALPA merger policy, and all goals of ALPA merger policy are the same goals of the three mediators--just as in the AAA/AWA merger.

Don't post stoooopid.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Another Mesa puke weighs in.

Said the Gulfstream International pilot!

Hey Marty:
Why do you claim to be a US Airways pilot when you wrote here you aren't?

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848465#post848465


Or where you wrote here where you have nothing to do with the (US Airways/AWA merger)
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=848322#post848322

Or even here where you claim of all things, to be a United pilot?

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1224345#post1224345

Maybe its because you are a useless troll who has more scrapes on his knees from getting flying jobs!

MCDU- 1 airline strike away from his next flying job!

 

[FDJ2]

You know both MEC's worked a deal (Called a Process LOA) that was "consistent" with Polcy, but not driven by, or conducted under it.

Simply put, the process is different, but the goals the same.

 

[AirportBum]

More to it than luck. Pilots choose an airline for many reasons. Pay, benefits, fleet, growth, domiciles, financial stability, culture etc. etc. Some make better decisions than others and are hired by more desirable companies. Luck is but one factor! My suggestion, run for national ALPA office and work to change ALPA merger policy if it bothers you so much.

That may be one of the most arrogant things I've ever heard. Don't start feeling too high and mighty, you never know when the $hit stick may get you. Granted Delta is a desirable place to work (in 2008), but ever heard of Eastern, Pan Am, etc??

How does it go: "you pays your money, you takes your chance" something like that. It is ALL LUCK over the course of a career. Just ask some UAL guys how a horrendous management team took them from a "desirable" airline (not all that long ago) to uhhhh, well, you get the point. Get over yourself.

 

[michael707767]

That may be one of the most arrogant things I've ever heard. Don't start feeling too high and mighty, you never know when the $hit stick may get you. Granted Delta is a desirable place to work (in 2008), but ever heard of Eastern, Pan Am, etc??

How does it go: "you pays your money, you takes your chance" something like that. It is ALL LUCK over the course of a career. Just ask some UAL guys how a horrendous management team took them from a "desirable" airline (not all that long ago) to uhhhh, well, you get the point. Get over yourself.

I don't think it's high and mighty, it's simply a fact. Whether it's by design or by luck, some pilots end up at better airlines with a better career in front of them. And yes that can't change in the blink of an eye.

Getting hired is luck too. You think you got hired at your airline before someone else got hired at their airline because you were better? More experianced? BS. A lot of airline hiring is luck.