NWA wants DOH

[PuffDriver]

Puffy,
Facts? Only Puffy takes what he hears on FI from another DAL pilot as fact. I prefer more official formats to base the facts on. Like when did DAL place orders for 777s beyond the 10 they have now.

Puffy, you da man!! Now that you read it on FI, it must be fact.

Go find it yourself. better yet, let's use a little bit of logic. If we are getting another 8 within a year, and 25-28 long term, what date did the orders have to be placed before? Hint: It's before the announcement of the merger--and the board is not constrained to that date anyway

You want the official source, as ACL eloquently states, go find it for yourself. I don't do your homework for you.

Sometimes it is just much easier to admit you are wrong, so you should at least consider it. No mention of 787s or anything else I mentioned. Just 1 little miniscule, and incorrect, grasp at a straw. Yawn.

 

[michael707767]

So 10 777s on property now. When were the 6 ordered? Before or after announced merger? My understanding it was after, but too lazy to look it up right now.

The 6 LRs were ordered before the merger. Back in July we converted two more options for LRs, which will bring the total to 10 LRs.

 

[PuffDriver]

So 10 777s on property now. When were the 6 ordered? Before or after announced merger? My understanding it was after, but too lazy to look it up right now.

More than lazy, but I digress. Tell me, where does it say that the arbitration bard is tied to the date of announcement? I seem to remember one of your guys on the national boards bringing up the fact that oils will probably not go back up before the outcome of the SLI--thereby trying to make his case for the -9s to stick around. Which is it?

 

[PuffDriver]

Fleet Plan is for 25-28 "officially"

Shoot, I said 30, guess that was that "elitist" part of me coming out.

Sorry, everyone, I was wrong.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Needless to say, our "Super Premium Wide Body" flying is growing.
Yours if lucky will grow by two. You are only getting two additional 787's for the 744's that will be leaving. ( I will not even argue the 742 as it is public knowledge)

We have discussed with you, what the "game plan" isover here post DCC. You can listen and wake up. Our guys are and will be running the show. It does not matter where they worked before, Our board is paying their salary, not yours.
Our flt ops management is very open with the pilot group to plans and options that are being worked on. I know that is a weird concept for ya.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

No I said official.
Add about 20 or so to the number and that is what the ideal plan is for.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Doesn't matter that we own the 9's. Doesn't matter that gas is 50% cheaper. What matters is that they are really old and are going to need expensive heavy checks. That and the possibility of a cheap bridge airplne make their staying power about as much as GW staying in the White House after Jan 20th.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Furthermore, they will be here for about two years post DCC. What happens after two years? Do you need some help with this one?
Why do you think that it is correct to have the DC-9 drivers on the bottom of the list?????

 

[DTW320]

Doesn't matter that we own the 9's. Doesn't matter that gas is 50% cheaper. What matters is that they are really old and are going to need expensive heavy checks. That and the possibility of a cheap bridge airplne make their staying power about as much as GW staying in the White House after Jan 20th.

So, you're saying that the -9's (not including DAL -9-88's) will be gone by 1/20/09? How 'bout a friendly wager? Oh wait, I see you have retracted that analogy....

BTW, you and Generally need to have a little PM conference to get your talking points straight vis-a-vis the 747-400 fleet. One of you is saying DAL has big plans for them, the other is saying they are headed for the scrap heap.

How about we lighten this thread up a bit with some new rumors. I'll start, although, since I don't spend my life here like some do, some may be old news:

DAL is replacing AF on PHL-CDG.
744's ATL-TLV
330's ATL-HNL
some 320's to SLC (I think that's an old one)
787's based in BOS (heard that from a DAL flt ops upper level manager.....I know, I know,....it hasn't flown yet)

Whatta you got?

 

[Superpilot92]

Doesn't matter that we own the 9's. Doesn't matter that gas is 50% cheaper. What matters is that they are really old and are going to need expensive heavy checks. That and the possibility of a cheap bridge airplne make their staying power about as much as GW staying in the White House after Jan 20th.

The remaining DC9s have cycle limits that could take them to 2025 IF the company wanted to. The limiting factor has nothing to do with heavy checks or cycle limits and everything to do with navigation (per the fleet manager). VORs being decommissioned over time will either lead to connecting our MFD/EGPWS to some means of navigating via GPS or stick with vectors Its likely the DC9s will go on for a while until a replacement at Mainline is decided upon. We'll see.

 

[Noserider76]

Thee isn't money in cargo. The planes are flying one way empty, and the other way partially full. There is a glut of cargo operators to the Orient right now. It is losing money for the cargo only operation. Look it up. It is being continued to preserve position.

I understand what you're saying but we've lost a sh*t load of revenue over the years with the "there's no money in cargo" mantra. We don't have the belly space to make a dent in what's waiting on the ramps worldwide. My point is that's pilot jobs (for all) and a business gone, never to return if we let them get rid of it again.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

2025 assuming minimal cycles. Put them in ATL on nine to twelve cycles a day and those go way down.
It does not matter what they have left in them. What matters is the total cost to operate.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I also did not say 01/20/09. Read it again. I states a likeliness or around two more years for the nines like GW staying in the White House after 01.20.2009. Not the same date.
Thy may stay a little past two years, but the plan to date has them leaving quite quickly.

 

[DTW320]

I also did not say 01/20/09. Read it again. I states a likeliness or around two more years for the nines like GW staying in the White House after 01.20.2009. Not the same date.
Thy may stay a little past two years, but the plan to date has them leaving quite quickly.

Re-Read my post.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

DAL is replacing AF on PHL-CDG.
744's ATL-TLV
330's ATL-HNL
some 320's to SLC (I think that's an old one)
787's based in BOS (heard that from a DAL flt ops upper level manager.....I know, I know,....it hasn't flown yet)

First one is possible and probable
Second one as well. Needed 765 for lift to Europe and Africa so they took them off the HNL run. Need a heavy cargo lifter back on the route.
Third one, Definitely add CVG to that too.
MD-88 to DTW, and MSP to add a new old one.
Fourth, Maybe when the 900 comes out. Until then it will be another type of jet that is on property. BOS is looking better and better for a base.

His talking points come from me....

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I did not retract anything.

 

[General Lee]

So, you're saying that the -9's (not including DAL -9-88's) will be gone by 1/20/09? How 'bout a friendly wager? Oh wait, I see you have retracted that analogy....

BTW, you and Generally need to have a little PM conference to get your talking points straight vis-a-vis the 747-400 fleet. One of you is saying DAL has big plans for them, the other is saying they are headed for the scrap heap.

How about we lighten this thread up a bit with some new rumors. I'll start, although, since I don't spend my life here like some do, some may be old news:

DAL is replacing AF on PHL-CDG.
744's ATL-TLV
330's ATL-HNL
some 320's to SLC (I think that's an old one)
787's based in BOS (heard that from a DAL flt ops upper level manager.....I know, I know,....it hasn't flown yet)

Whatta you got?

Huh? I never said the 744s were going away. The 742s, on the other hand, very likely. And that is not just me saying it. I will PM you with something from above.

As far as rumors go, yes, I have heard the one about AF getting replaced on PHL--CDG by DL. AF also will add a JFK to LHR, replacing the current LAX to LHR (giving us a total of 3 daily with AF from JFK to LHR). Your 744s will also do Sao Paulo from ATL, and the A330s will do a bunch of S America. I was told some 767-400s to DTW. Also MD90s and MD88s to MSP to fly to both coasts, and A319s/20s to SLC so more East Coast cities could be reached (MD90s can't hit farther than PIT and YYZ from SLC).

There is no doubt the plans for our airline after the DCC will be interesting. Apparently it will take about 3 years to add crew bases with those new planes, and until then there will be a lot of DH'ing. That will add credit and time (in terms of days) for those particular trips.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Also the 744's are on short term leases. They end of these leases coenside with the original delivery schedule to the 787's. We have argued this one before.
Now with the 787 and everything surrounding it in question, what happens next?
Well, there are a few options on the table. Doing long term leases on the 744's is an option, but not a good one. Boeing may offer short term leases as well, but only for some major assurances from DAL that we will be buying the replacements from them. That boxes us in the corner.
What is the other option??
LR's. We can convert some on the rolling options to arrive when the scheduled arrivals of the 787 were to occur. Look for it

So that we do not get in to another argument on DC-9 costs. We are not talking about CSAM. We are talking about the millions spent on these heavy checks. We have parked 757's for the same reason. Only difference is that it is getting harder and harder to manufacture parts for the 9. That itself adds to the cost of the airframe.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

On top of that, simply put the 9 will cause a lot of issues long term in the way the Airspace is going to e utilized in and around ATL.

 

[DTW320]

Huh? I never said the 744s were going away. The 742s, on the other hand, very likely. And that is not just me saying it. I will PM you with something from above.

As far as rumors go, yes, I have heard the one about AF getting replaced on PHL--CDG by DL. AF also will add a JFK to LHR, replacing the current LAX to LHR (giving us a total of 3 daily with AF from JFK to LHR). Your 744s will also do Sao Paulo from ATL, and the A330s will do a bunch of S America. I was told some 767-400s to DTW. Also MD90s and MD88s to MSP to fly to both coasts, and A319s/20s to SLC so more East Coast cities could be reached (MD90s can't hit farther than PIT and YYZ from SLC).

There is no doubt the plans for our airline after the DCC will be interesting. Apparently it will take about 3 years to add crew bases with those new planes, and until then there will be a lot of DH'ing. That will add credit and time (in terms of days) for those particular trips.


Bye Bye---General Lee

No, I know what you've said....I was referring to ACL65's comments that he has restated above about expiring leases on 744's meaning that they are going away and are not in the plan. Unlike some here, I don't claim to be an expert on it. All I can say is that our 744 guys are hearing from their fleet people that we, meaning DAL, have big plans for it and they are actually looking for more of them. Have also heard big 330 plans for ATL. RA loves'em. Friend of mine is a facilities guy at HQ in ATL and has said they are being aggressively tasked to find gate space for the 330 and 744 in ATL. I agree that for a while there will be a LOT of DHing to position crews. Works for me. You guys will LOVE DTW and MSP!