NWA wants DOH

[Sinca3]

, NWA pilots should be given a credit for our up coming retirements or the Delta pilots should not be given much credit for their current positions which is a reflection of their retirements. .

You and every NWA pilot are a reflection of past NWA retirements, should we take that into consideration also?

 

[recallsomeday]

Also, in your above quote, you said NWA will have block holders JUNIOR to some DL reserves. Well, isn't that a good thing pay wise? You guys seem upset about the drop in hours for reserve guarantee---from 75 hours to 70 hours at Delta. Well, sounds like some junior NWA people won't have to take that "pay cut" down to 70 hours a month, and instead ENJOY the pay raise per hour while flying more than 70 hours.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I'll trade 10 bucks an hour for 900 seniority numbers.... any takers?

I don't see management ever coming to the group asking for concessions in seniority. har har har

The "raise" doesn't mean s#!t to me if I'm hangin out on the bottom like a new hire after 8 years on the property. (Oh .. I'm sorry .. only 3.5 years on the property)

Seniority is for sale is not a valid argument either.

 

[General Lee]

I'll trade 10 bucks an hour for 900 seniority numbers.... any takers?

I don't see management ever coming to the group asking for concessions in seniority. har har har

The "raise" doesn't mean s#!t to me if I'm hangin out on the bottom like a new hire after 8 years on the property. (Oh .. I'm sorry .. only 3.5 years on the property)

Seniority is for sale is not a valid argument either.

So, were you furloughed for awhile and now are back? If you were, you now get to benefit even more from our contract. You will get "credit" for your years on furlough, and should get paid 8th year pay instead of 4th year pay (3.5 rounded up). Isn't that great? You are welcome. See, you will make more thanks to us. That should be a lot more than an extra 10 bucks an hour.....from 4th year to 8th year pay, plus the 15-20% raise in rates.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[clippyrip]

I love when one side takes credit for the raises that everyone received, as if they are the reason and not the merger itself. We all got raises, and it was due to the merger. As a reminder, the raises are being paid for out of both piggy banks.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Correct, and I have not see our team use that tacit. The ones that are being used hold a lot more water.

 

[GogglesPisano]

I love when one side takes credit for the raises that everyone received, as if they are the reason and not the merger itself. We all got raises, and it was due to the merger. As a reminder, the raises are being paid for out of both piggy banks.

Just to put things in perspective: Delta pilots received raises, the NWA pilots received raises.

Why did the JPWA pass at a much higher percentage at NWA?

 

[clippyrip]

Correct, and I have not see our team use that tacit. The ones that are being used hold a lot more water.

I agree, Delta has made some strong arguments. It just looks like the arbitrators don't see us as less than equals. My 2 cents, a 500 pilot staple holds zero water.

 

[clippyrip]

Just to put things in perspective: Delta pilots received raises, the NWA pilots received raises.

Why did the JPWA pass at a much higher percentage at NWA?

I agree, ours were bigger, but its paid for from our money. We also had some work rules that we lost on so its not a huge deal for the red tails. I think the arbitrators issue is when the blue team is asking for seniority concessions for something the red tails paid for.

 

[recallsomeday]

So, were you furloughed for awhile and now are back? If you were, you now get to benefit even more from our contract. You will get "credit" for your years on furlough, and should get paid 8th year pay instead of 4th year pay (3.5 rounded up). Isn't that great? You are welcome. See, you will make more thanks to us. That should be a lot more than an extra 10 bucks an hour.....from 4th year to 8th year pay, plus the 15-20% raise in rates.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Ok.... I'll give you that ... but a thanks to both groups for voting "yes". Plus... the JCBA .. or the LOA 19 wouldn't exist without a merger. Dollars are coming from both sides.

I'll go further for you ... I'll trade 15 bucks an hour for .. oh lets say ... 990 seniority numbers .... do we have a deal?

Bottom line... seniority is forever ... and not for sale. The "because your getting a payraise, you should be happy with what you get" argument doesn't float.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

But like one other individual stated, seniority as in DOH means nothing. It is how you sit on your companies list. You position on that list determines your career expectations and bidding authority. Your DOH is when you were put on this list. DOH is used for pay, vacation, and flight pass purposes.

 

[General Lee]

Ok.... I'll give you that ... but a thanks to both groups for voting "yes". Plus... the JCBA .. or the LOA 19 wouldn't exist without a merger. Dollars are coming from both sides.

I'll go further for you ... I'll trade 15 bucks an hour for .. oh lets say ... 990 seniority numbers .... do we have a deal?

Bottom line... seniority is forever ... and not for sale. The "because your getting a payraise, you should be happy with what you get" argument doesn't float.

So, you're only going up $15 an hour? Going up 4 years in pay, and then getting a 15-20% raise in pay rates? Really? You see, if you are in the bottom 5% of NWA, shouldn't you be in the bottom 5% of a new company? But, you guys are losing a bunch of planes soon, and we aren't. That is called inequity. You are only adding 18 mystery planes that haven't flown yet. You are adding some retirements, though, just like we are 5 years from now. (of course, we don't know if all of your pilots WILL retire at 60, just like ours).

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Old School]

The arbitrators may consider the fact that DAL and NWA are equal in value as of today's market close...

 

[castle bravo]

Just curious, did NWA push hard for DOH in the 1986 Republic merger?

 

[Donsa320]

Just curious, did NWA push hard for DOH in the 1986 Republic merger?

Well, I was about number 280 on the Republic list in 1986 and ended up about 380 on the combined list in 1990. Number ONE went to a Republic (ex AirWest) "puke", which is what the NWA negotiater called us at the hearing. Actually the statement was "no Republic puke will ever get his hands on a Northwest wide-body". Contentious would be an understatement.
The award was DOH at least on my end of the list.

DC

 

[Blade Runner]

Just curious, did NWA push hard for DOH in the 1986 Republic merger?

OUCH!!!

 

[Blade Runner]

Just curious, did NWA push hard for DOH in the 1986 Republic merger?

So what happens again to the remaining Republic guys that got the shaft? Hope it woks out better for them this time around.

 

[Schwanker]

But like one other individual stated, seniority as in DOH means nothing. It is how you sit on your companies list. You position on that list determines your career expectations and bidding authority. Your DOH is when you were put on this list. DOH is used for pay, vacation, and flight pass purposes.

I understand your argument. The problem is you are taking a "snapshot" at a point in time. It doesn't account for attrition. DALPA doesn't want to account for attrition as it works against your position. The truth is, a newhire NWA pilot will move 40% up the list over the next 10 years. DAL will not have near that attrition. After those 10 years, the attrition will be relatively equal (7 DAL for every 5 NWA). I know you say it doesn't matter. NWA types will disagree. I really don't believe you'll get the staple your hoping for.

The best we can hope for is this economy doesn't tank resulting in the new DAL to contract as a whole. The good news is DAL will be really well positioned compared to the industry. Not that anyone is hoping for the demise of another, but if there is it won't be DAL. DAL will be able to fill any market if it's opened up due to a coorporate failure.
Best,
Schwanker

 

[castle bravo]

The award was DOH at least on my end of the list.

DC

But didn't Red Book cry murder about their wide-body "career expectations"?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

The redbookers certainly did cry bloody murder about their super premium widebodies. None of those southern boys should have even gotten their hands on them.

 

[General Lee]

I understand your argument. The problem is you are taking a "snapshot" at a point in time. It doesn't account for attrition. DALPA doesn't want to account for attrition as it works against your position. The truth is, a newhire NWA pilot will move 40% up the list over the next 10 years. DAL will not have near that attrition. After those 10 years, the attrition will be relatively equal (7 DAL for every 5 NWA). I know you say it doesn't matter. NWA types will disagree. I really don't believe you'll get the staple your hoping for.

The best we can hope for is this economy doesn't tank resulting in the new DAL to contract as a whole. The good news is DAL will be really well positioned compared to the industry. Not that anyone is hoping for the demise of another, but if there is it won't be DAL. DAL will be able to fill any market if it's opened up due to a coorporate failure.
Best,
Schwanker

Your computer model composing your SLI also took a "snapshot" on Jan 1st, 2008 of the current planes in the fleet, and used that for figuring out how many NWA Captains should be on the new list. That snapshot also had 94 DC9s on it, which today does not reflect the accurate number of those planes that will be on the property. It also gave 631 slots (Capt and FO) to 787 pilots, even though that plane is far away from being here. It also forgot we had 8 777s coming on firm order this year and the next (all will come next year before the certificates are merged). Those darn computers!


Bye Bye--General Lee