NWA wants DOH

[GogglesPisano]

The jist of a dynamic list is that each side moves up as their retirements happen. I personally don't like the idea. Ultimately, NWA pilots should be given a credit for our up coming retirements or the Delta pilots should not be given much credit for their current positions which is a reflection of their retirements. In my humble opinion its a wash but you will never get a Delta pilot to agree. They got their retirements, want credit for their current positions and then want our retirements. Pure BS.

What happens when Delta retirements peak 15 years from now, after the NWA retirements come to a screaching halt?

 

[clippyrip]

15 to 20 years away. hahahahaha. What then you ask....almost 65-75% of our list will be gone, do you think we would want to compromise SLI for something a career away, that most wont even see? I don't think so.

 

[Schwanker]

What happens when Delta retirements peak 15 years from now, after the NWA retirements come to a screaching halt?

To sum it up, number 5000 on the NWA seniority list would be between 2500-3000 in 10 years.

Number 7000 on the DAL list would be, well, approx number 7000 in 10 years.

A dynamic list would allow NWA pilots to move up with NWA attrition and DAL pilots advance with DAL attrition. Both sides would get credit for their retirements.

 

[dragon]

To sum it up, number 5000 on the NWA seniority list would be between 2500-3000 in 10 years.

Number 7000 on the DAL list would be, well, approx number 7000 in 10 years.

A dynamic list would allow NWA pilots to move up with NWA attrition and DAL pilots advance with DAL attrition. Both sides would get credit for their retirements.

By doing it this way, wouldn’t we be creating two separate lists? Basically repeating the failed history of the red book/green book issue that so divided NWA for 20+ years.

The only way we ever truly merge is to become one “global” airline. I’m sure after the arbitrators get done, we’ll all be ticked off, but I’d rather be mad at them than fellow pilots.

 

[Noserider76]

A dynamic list would allow NWA pilots to move up with NWA attrition and DAL pilots advance with DAL attrition. Both sides would get credit for their retirements.

A system like that would have to have you moving up on the fleet you bring to the merger as your retirements come in and DL guys moving on the fleet we bring.

Almost everyone here is happy with what we have now and wants to keep it as close to status quo as possible. We don't want your retirements on your equipment. We want to keep flying and upgrading as scheduled on our equipment. The problem, as you know, comes when new equipment comes on board and your plan would take it back to a red book/green book/blue book scenario.

It's going to be painful for me as a senior wide body FO to see NW guys flood in front of me for my left seat upgrade but in the long run a single seniority list is probably the best solution. By the way were you a tweet or 38 Faip?

 

[retired guy]

[A dynamic list would allow NWA pilots to move up with NWA attrition and DAL pilots advance with DAL attrition. Both sides would get credit for their retirements.[/quote]



Ain`t gonna happen.

 

[Schwanker]

A system like that would have to have you moving up on the fleet you bring to the merger as your retirements come in and DL guys moving on the fleet we bring.

Not really. Say if the list were relative, NWA and DAL positions would stay static. You would move up to a pre-merger NWA/DAL position as attrition occurs. You bid what ever your seniority holds. Senior DAL guys could bid on the 60+ pre-merger NWA 747s/A330s and senior NWA guys could bid on the 10 pre-merger 777s DAL brings.

With a system set up as such, NWA and DAL continue to hold the same relative percentage continuously. ie... if DAL brings 70 of the top 120 positions and NWA brings 50 of the top 120 positions, it continues to stay this way indefinately (or until the entire pre-merger list retires).

Example:
Current DAL guys always hold positions 1,3,4,6,8,10,12....
Current NWA guys always hold positions
2,5,7,8,11.....

Schwanker

edit: This would actually enable a lot higher percentage of DAL guys to fly 747/777/330 gauge aircraft.

 

[Noserider76]

Not really. Say if the list were relative, NWA and DAL positions would stay static. You would move up to a pre-merger NWA/DAL position as attrition occurs. You bid what ever your seniority holds. Senior DAL guys could bid on the 60+ pre-merger NWA 747s/A330s and senior NWA guys could bid on the 10 pre-merger 777s DAL brings.

With a system set up as such, NWA and DAL continue to hold the same relative percentage continuously. ie... if DAL brings 70 of the top 120 positions and NWA brings 50 of the top 120 positions, it continues to stay this way indefinately (or until the entire pre-merger list retires).

Example:
Current DAL guys always hold positions 1,3,4,6,8,10,12....
Current NWA guys always hold positions
2,5,7,8,11.....

Schwanker

edit: This would actually enable a lot higher percentage of DAL guys to fly 747/777/330 gauge aircraft.

We get to move up to our pre-merger positions as your guys retire? Oh boy! Yippee!

What it leaves out is that your 60 something 747s and A-330s won't make much of an impact on the average pilot here. Many of those (747-2s) will be gone before it matters. The bulk of the DL fleet is the 101 767s and 137 757s. This fleet gives the current DL guy access to a much larger number of higher paying aircraft and much higher career earnings that come with it. Widebody pay is not an end of career goal here. It's a reality for almost anyone thats cares to bid it. DL brings over 70% of the widebody flying to this merger, not even counting the much greater numbers of 757s.

We've also retired our 100-120 seat aircaft and are not really interested in participating while yours are retired. You can't really, in my opinion fully take advantage of your retirements without fully bearing the brunt of your -9 retirements. It's an either/or proposition. I think most here would be very happy with a fence right down the middle of current aircraft but that's not going to happen.

We'll never agree what is fair so it's pointless to try and the reason it's in arbitration.

 

[DTW320]

Widebody pay is not an end of career goal here. It's a reality for almost anyone thats cares to bid it. DL brings over 70% of the widebody flying to this merger, not even counting the much greater numbers of 757s.

That's hilarious. Not even counting your 757's, 45% of your aircraft are narrowbody. So, the pilots that fly almost half your fleet must simply not care to bid widebody. Cool DAL math there......reminds me of your SLI math.

We've also retired our 100-120 seat aircaft

Well, I guess your right....the 737-700 has 124 seats....one less than our DC-9-50's

You can't really, in my opinion fully take advantage of your retirements without fully bearing the brunt of your -9 retirements.

What -9 retirements? As has been mentioned here before, rumor has it that they aren't going anywhere with oil falling and the "don't laugh, it's paid for" bumper stickers.

 

[Noserider76]

That's hilarious. Not even counting your 757's, 45% of your aircraft are narrowbody. So, the pilots that fly almost half your fleet must simply not care to bid widebody. Cool DAL math there......reminds me of your SLI math.

Hilarious to you, but absolutely true.

Well, I guess your right....the 737-700 has 124 seats....one less than our DC-9-50's

You would equate a brand new aircraft with 10X the operational performance to an aircraft any sane person knows is on it's last legs. The 10 737-700s are equivalent to the 737-800 in pay. The DC-9-40/50s are equivalent to well... the DC-9-30. Probably the main difference between us: I never had a dream to fly a 747 (where have I heard that before), 777, 787, or any airliner. It's all about the paycheck for me.