NWA wants DOH

[Superpilot92]

Here's what I have gotten via chief pilots, check airmen and union reps I have flown with....

DOH... never.

top 100 or so (amount to staff a 747-400) will be at the top.

Bottom 300-400 (amount to staff Compass and the DC-9-30s which will be parked) will be stapled. The rest will be a relative)The DC-9-40s and 50s will stay at the combined airline. The 747-200s will be gone by late 2009 or until Delta can replace them with 777s. They are losing miney but are being flown to preserve landing slots at NRT.

The Dc-9-40s and 50s are staying to be brought to ATL to compete with Air Tran; we cannot compete head to head with them with any kind of RJ...

Latest rumors I got..

What does Compass staffing have to do with anything? Also a fence on the DC9 gives the near term protection without the career effects of a staple job on the NWA pilots. We'll see

 

[General Lee]

What does Compass staffing have to do with anything? Also a fence on the DC9 gives the near term protection without the career effects of a staple job on the NWA pilots. We'll see

The ANC 742 operation is worth 350 pilots, and some DC9-30s are being parked. That could be where the 400 number came from.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

The ANC 742 operation is worth 350 pilots, and some DC9-30s are being parked. That could be where the 400 number came from.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Heyas,

Now you really can't count on the 742s going away. Even if they are unprofitable, which I'm not even conceeding (oil at $77 today!, not no metion hugely lucrative MAC flying), they are there to secure a valuable corporate asset, namely the NRT and other Pacific routes are are tied up with a cargo only desination (cargo-only provides a slot multiplier). It's no different than MD-90s banging their head against the SWA wall in LA or SLC...losing money, but maintaining market share.

Even if an SLI includes some kind of fence, ANY aircraft that are placed on those routes, or routes made possible by transferring route authority, will be found (by arbitration, no doubt) to be "replacement aircraft", necessitating NWA crews (or slots that represent NWA crews). In any case, the net loss of NWA positions is zero.

As far as the DC-9-30 going away. Good luck selling that to the arbitrator. They were in the fleet plan as of the date of "constructive notification" back in March. Crew staffing is already at the required level for the 28 that are in storage (not retired). What DAL decides to do with the aircraft after the merger is irrelevant. Had the merger NOT occured, those positions would have been there, thus forming the basis of an "expectation".

Nu

 

[Cobra17]

Why argue about DOH and ratios/categories-- just alphabetise the list and go from there.

You know that's not fair Mr. Anderson.

 

[FDJ2]

How many cargo carriers are flying 747-200s these days? /quote]

Connie Kalitta is flying some super premium 747-200s.:laugh:

 

[General Lee]

Heyas,

Now you really can't count on the 742s going away. Even if they are unprofitable, which I'm not even conceeding (oil at $77 today!, not no metion hugely lucrative MAC flying), they are there to secure a valuable corporate asset, namely the NRT and other Pacific routes are are tied up with a cargo only desination (cargo-only provides a slot multiplier). It's no different than MD-90s banging their head against the SWA wall in LA or SLC...losing money, but maintaining market share.

Even if an SLI includes some kind of fence, ANY aircraft that are placed on those routes, or routes made possible by transferring route authority, will be found (by arbitration, no doubt) to be "replacement aircraft", necessitating NWA crews (or slots that represent NWA crews). In any case, the net loss of NWA positions is zero.

As far as the DC-9-30 going away. Good luck selling that to the arbitrator. They were in the fleet plan as of the date of "constructive notification" back in March. Crew staffing is already at the required level for the 28 that are in storage (not retired). What DAL decides to do with the aircraft after the merger is irrelevant. Had the merger NOT occured, those positions would have been there, thus forming the basis of an "expectation".

Nu

Of course I disagree with you. I will PM you with some 742 news from a webchat. It is not up to your guys anymore. Our guys will make the decisions, and it sounds like they have been made, and I am sure Dalpa is including that in any arguments. As far as an Arbitrator not looking at your DC9s going away, that is ridiculous. Not only did you (Steenland) announce some going away, but we know this to be in the future plans. 41 of your larger DC9s will be staying, but at least half of your -30s are being parked sooner than later. You are right about oil being down, but the economy and stock market are down too, and that means some of those senior guys you were planning to get rid of may not go as soon, since they may need to build up their 401Ks again. (yes, other than the fixed pension)

And, thanks to the Nicalau award, the SLI will probably look a lot like relative seniority. There could be some tweaking, but not much, and your infighting shows dissension in the ranks. Something is going on, and it probably has to do with the bottom pilots.

Here comes the PM...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

How many cargo carriers are flying 747-200s these days? /quote]

Connie Kalitta is flying some super premium 747-200s.:laugh:

Unfortunately into the ground! Well, maybe they can make more money that way through insurance? Even they are getting newer 744s for their ops though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Heyas,

Now you really can't count on the 742s going away. Even if they are unprofitable, which I'm not even conceeding (oil at $77 today!, not no metion hugely lucrative MAC flying), they are there to secure a valuable corporate asset, namely the NRT and other Pacific routes are are tied up with a cargo only desination (cargo-only provides a slot multiplier). It's no different than MD-90s banging their head against the SWA wall in LA or SLC...losing money, but maintaining market share.

Even if an SLI includes some kind of fence, ANY aircraft that are placed on those routes, or routes made possible by transferring route authority, will be found (by arbitration, no doubt) to be "replacement aircraft", necessitating NWA crews (or slots that represent NWA crews). In any case, the net loss of NWA positions is zero.

As far as the DC-9-30 going away. Good luck selling that to the arbitrator. They were in the fleet plan as of the date of "constructive notification" back in March. Crew staffing is already at the required level for the 28 that are in storage (not retired). What DAL decides to do with the aircraft after the merger is irrelevant. Had the merger NOT occured, those positions would have been there, thus forming the basis of an "expectation".

Nu

The 747-200's are not even included in the projected post merger fleet plan. They are done. This is the same as the dc-9-30's.

 

[FDJ2]

So 10 777s on property now. When were the 6 ordered? Before or after announced merger? My understanding it was after, but too lazy to look it up right now.

Delta 10K, before merger announcement, shows 8 firm 777LRs scheduled for delivery in 2008 and 2009. Three in 2008, 5 more in 2009. The 10K also showed options with scheduled deliveries for 11 more 777LRs in 2010-2012.

 

[NuGuy]

Of course I disagree with you. I will PM you with some 742 news from a webchat. It is not up to your guys anymore. Our guys will make the decisions, and it sounds like they have been made, and I am sure Dalpa is including that in any arguments. As far as an Arbitrator not looking at your DC9s going away, that is ridiculous. Not only did you (Steenland) announce some going away, but we know this to be in the future plans. 41 of your larger DC9s will be staying, but at least half of your -30s are being parked sooner than later. You are right about oil being down, but the economy and stock market are down too, and that means some of those senior guys you were planning to get rid of may not go as soon, since they may need to build up their 401Ks again. (yes, other than the fixed pension)

And, thanks to the Nicalau award, the SLI will probably look a lot like relative seniority. There could be some tweaking, but not much, and your infighting shows dissension in the ranks. Something is going on, and it probably has to do with the bottom pilots.

Here comes the PM...


Bye Bye---General Lee

Heyas,

DAL can't legally (which is all that matters) dictate fleet plans at NWA before this thing happens, and it's all irrelevant what DAL decides to do AFTER the merger because the SLI is occurring before the DCC. You can't structure an SLI prior to DCC based on decisions that may or may not occur after the fact, because fleet plans change, often at a moments notice.

Besides, anywhere those Pacific NWA slots go, whatever aircraft fly them, I guarantee you there will be an future arbitration on what constitutes replacement aircraft

Constructive notification (get used to that term, you are going to see it a lot) occurred back in March. That is the fleet data that will be used for the SLI.

Because of this, and despite what happens with the rest of the list, any DAL and NWA pilots who were hired after that date will be at the bottom, feathered in by DOH.

Nu

 

[FDJ2]

Constructive notification (get used to that term, you are going to see it a lot) occurred back in March. That is the fleet data that will be used for the SLI.

Maybe, maybe not. That's what you would like to see happen, but it might not play out quite the way you hoped.

 

[NuGuy]

Maybe, maybe not. That's what you would like to see happen, but it might not play out quite the way you hoped.

Nor you. But keep preaching those talking points FDJ...you almost have your own guys convinced.

Nu

 

[Superpilot92]

The 747-200's are not even included in the projected post merger fleet plan. They are done. This is the same as the dc-9-30's.

So what you're saying is that is DELTAs POST merger plan? If so that is DALs business decision.. Had the merger not happened that wouldnt be the case in the near term for the NWA pilot group.

 

[Fly4hire]

Nor you. But keep preaching those talking points FDJ...you almost have your own guys convinced.

Nu

I will concede they have certainly prevailed in arbitrating with themselves. imp:

 

[FDJ2]

I will concede they have certainly prevailed in arbitrating with themselves. imp:

An NWA pilot commenting on another pilot group arbitrating with themselves, now that's funny.:laugh:

 

[Scope out RJ's]

I can't imagine you'd ever have the depth of musical culture necessary to identify that picture, but then again I also doubt you have opposable thumbs....

I resort to an obscure album cover as my avatar, and you resort to baseless, classless name calling. To each his own, my friend of sub-par intellect and questionable parentage... to each his own....

You nwa guys are hysterical.
Your quote:

I resort to an obscure album cover as my avatar and you resort to baseless, classless mane calling

Hang on while I get you a tissue!:crying:

Then in the very next sentence you wrote:

To each his own......my friend of sub-par intellect and questionable percentage...to each his own

No wonder your union is in complete disarray! You can't even keep track of what you write. Oh well, you just can't unteach stupid. Must be the cold weather ops. I see in another thread you're leaving. Stop back when you have less time. Its the best thing you've posted cupcake.
Before you leave, take this with you.
GEAR UP CUPCAKE!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

So what you're saying is that is DELTAs POST merger plan? If so that is DALs business decision.. Had the merger not happened that wouldnt be the case in the near term for the NWA pilot group.

We are negotiating and arbitrating a list based on the POST MERGER PLAN. Not any other. He is correct in stating that the 742's and DC-9-30's are gone. Now the 40's and 50's will be here for a couple more years. No more. That is taken in to account in our proposal. Furthermore, the bottom of the list represents the lowest gauge aircraft.
Once again it is relative seniority by seat.

I know it is a bitter concept to you, I understand that, I do. We would all like a flush. Our list provides status quo. That is its intent, nothing more nothing less.

 

[whatitdoing?]

ACL65PILOT.....you talk like you actually know what the hell you're talking about. You probably got hired in 07 at Delta and now you're an expert. You also probably creamed yourself when you were hired at Delta and couldn't wait to change your avatar. You also talk with authority and bash NW guys who've been at their company for decades longer than you. Hell, I'm sure some have been flying at NW longer than you are old. Can you just shut the F*** up instead of posting every few minutes? Go f*** the wife or beat the dog will ya?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I will not respond in kind to your post, but I do know what is going on here.
Block me if you do not want to see my posts.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

And, yes I was grateful to be hired after waiting over six and a half years for the class date that was canceled.