NWA wants DOH

[DTW320]

I have never advocated a "staple" job for the NWA guys. Some form of DOH for all post 9-11 hires (where we have had some sort of similar hiring patterns) along with a short-term protective fence for the DAL guys not to be furloughed if/when the DC-9s go away (and conversely, a similar thing for the NWA side should the -88s go first), coupled with a relative seniority formula for the rest of the list, seems like the most fair way to go.

Well unfortunately you're not on the merger committee, because a "staple" job is exactly what they have proposed. It would put every NWA pilot hired on or after December 2000 behind DAL pilots hired in May of this year. So, I assume that you must have some major heartburn with the position that your pilot group has taken on this right?

 

[DTW320]

This message is hidden because Scope out RJ's (737Pylt)is on your ignore list

Did you say something 737Pylt?
http://forums.flightinfo.com/profile.php?do=editlist

 

[Who Dey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCsDdIWvx3o

Are you promoting cheating like the Steelers do. Last time I checked it was against the rules to lead with your helmet. It is against the rules for this kind of situation. Our best linebacker is out for the year with a broken jaw. Well no different than Kimo deserving the Super Bowl MVP for taking out Palmer late. Would of never made it out of the wild card game that year without cheating.

Who Dey

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Did you say something 737Pylt?

I'm not him, but I did dispute everything you said cupcake. Its ok to hide. I expect nothing less from a nw pilot!

Well unfortunately you're not on the merger committee, because a "staple" job is exactly what they have proposed. It would put every NWA pilot hired on or after December 2000 behind DAL pilots hired in May of this year. So, I assume that you must have some major heartburn with the position that your pilot group has taken on this right?

I can't wait to see what the nwa pilot seniority list proposes. After all you girls are the same ones who proposed putting all the 747/330 pilots at the top of the list. So what's the difference. So I assume that you must have some major heartburn with the position your pilot group has taken on this right? Oh, I forgot, you can't debate, and you think I'm someone called 737pilot.

 

[Heavy Set]

Well unfortunately you're not on the merger committee, because a "staple" job is exactly what they have proposed. It would put every NWA pilot hired on or after December 2000 behind DAL pilots hired in May of this year. So, I assume that you must have some major heartburn with the position that your pilot group has taken on this right?

Could it be because more of your planes are leaving than Delta's? Didn't Steenland even announce a lot of your DC9s going away? Correct me if I am wrong please. And Scope Rjs is correct also, Delta has more widebodies, so more of their pilots are widebody pilots, and are paid more. If a Northwest pilot cannot hold a widebody now, then he should be put below people who can, for pay and "windfall" purposes. Maybe that is why there are 400 Northwest pilots proposed to be at the bottom of the list.

 

[Superpilot92]

These arguments are so pointless. Anyone who tries to pretend they know what will happen is full of it. The reason why this is in arbitration is because of stuff like this. Both sides have a difference of opinion and you're not going to be able to change that, especially on this forum. The real decision will be out in a month or so.

 

[Griswold]

These arguments are so pointless. Anyone who tries to pretend they know what will happen is full of it. The reason why this is in arbitration is because of stuff like this. Both sides have a difference of opinion and you're not going to be able to change that, especially on this forum. The real decision will be out in a month or so.

Well said, very well said, but you really got to think we DAL guys should be better off don't you. Just look at all the facts, without daydreaming in the sun.

This is great deal for you Super, in the long run.

 

[Superpilot92]

Well said, very well said, but you really got to think we DAL guys should be better off don't you. Just look at all the facts, without daydreaming in the sun.

This is great deal for you Super, in the long run.

IMHO, after looking at all the facts, No I dont think the Delta side "Should be better off". No daydreaming here, just looking at the facts. Unfortunately both sides have a difference of opinion on what the "facts" actually mean.

With that said, I am officially going to do my best not to get into these arguments any more. The NWA side has a lot of disagreements with the DAL side and the DAL side disagrees alot with the NWA side. I will say neither side should be any "better off" then the other. The reason why we cant get a negotiated list is because of that exact mentality. Both sides feel they have some sense of entitlement and thats expected and also exactly why its in arbitration. Neither side has any more of a right to ending up "better off" IMHO.

We'll see what happens in a month or so. :beer:

 

[Griswold]

IMHO, after looking at all the facts, No I dont think the Delta side "Should be better off". No daydreaming here, just looking at the facts. Unfortunately both sides have a difference of opinion on what the "facts" actually mean.

With that said, I am officially going to do my best not to get into these arguments any more. The NWA side has a lot of disagreements with the DAL side and the DAL side disagrees alot with the NWA side. I will say neither side should be any "better off" then the other. The reason why we cant get a negotiated list is because of that exact mentality. Both sides feel they have some sense of entitlement and thats expected and also exactly why its in arbitration. Neither side has any more of a right to ending up "better off" IMHO.

We'll see what happens in a month or so. :beer:

Again, you are better off in the long run, you can call yourself Super2038 when you retire. I might be close.

 

[Superpilot92]

Again, you are better off in the long run, you can call yourself Super2038 when you retire. I might be close.

Whats the significance of 2038? I dont get it.

 

[Griswold]

Whats the significance of 2038? I dont get it.

When you retire.

 

[Superpilot92]

When you retire.

close but I dont hit 60/65 until 2041/2046. I hope to retire before that though, so maybe you're right

 

[Speedbird34]

Well unfortunately you're not on the merger committee, because a "staple" job is exactly what they have proposed. It would put every NWA pilot hired on or after December 2000 behind DAL pilots hired in May of this year. So, I assume that you must have some major heartburn with the position that your pilot group has taken on this right?

No way this SLI will end up fair to me. My position from day one as a Delta pilot allows me hold 17 -20 days off a month. NYC 767ERB. We have a great quality of life here folks.

How will the SLI not distroy my quality of life considering I am not even thru my first year?

Our union has a duty to protect my relative seniority and present career expectations.

 

[JohnQ]

Well unfortunately you're not on the merger committee, because a "staple" job is exactly what they have proposed. It would put every NWA pilot hired on or after December 2000 behind DAL pilots hired in May of this year. So, I assume that you must have some major heartburn with the position that your pilot group has taken on this right?

Let's just say that that would not be my final position if I were God and could write the SLI. However, given this arbitration environment, I think there are all sorts of strategic approaches that both sides are pursuing. I hope that the end result will be something we can all deal with--I hope you (and I) realize that it won't be NWA-gets-top 500-spots-then-DOH-no-fences, nor will it be NWA-gets-the-bottom-500-spots.

I won't say anything more on this. I think we need a fair SLI--everyone should be modestly irritated with the list, but no one egregiously so.

I will drink beer with any and all NWA pilots after all this is said and done, and move forward with our career regardless of the outcome.

 

[Schwanker]

Let's just say that that would not be my final position if I were God and could write the SLI. However, given this arbitration environment, I think there are all sorts of strategic approaches that both sides are pursuing. I hope that the end result will be something we can all deal with--I hope you (and I) realize that it won't be NWA-gets-top 500-spots-then-DOH-no-fences, nor will it be NWA-gets-the-bottom-500-spots.

I won't say anything more on this. I think we need a fair SLI--everyone should be modestly irritated with the list, but no one egregiously so.

I will drink beer with any and all NWA pilots after all this is said and done, and move forward with our career regardless of the outcome.

You better prime that liver!
Schwanker

 

[MJ42]

I see no way this SLI will end be fair to me. My position from day one as a Delta pilot allows me hold 17 -20 days off a month. NYC 767ERB.

How will the SLI not distroy my quality of life considering I am not even thru my first year?

Our union has a duty to protect my relative seniority and present career expectations.

You hold your position for ONE REASON ONLY...NO ONE ELSE SENIOR WANTS IT! If they did, then they would be flying it. Please leave your "entitlement" attitude at the door when we merge.

BTW, what about my career expectations? Without the merger I'd retire as a widebody Captain and in the top 200...post merger???

 

[clippyrip]

I see no way this SLI will end be fair to me. My position from day one as a Delta pilot allows me hold 17 -20 days off a month. NYC 767ERB. How will the SLI not distroy my quality of life considering I am not even thru my first year?
Our union has a duty to protect my relative seniority and present career expectations.

Too bad buddy, as a new hire it means you are at the bottom of the list. NWA pilots that have been here for ten years should not be put below you. Your position is the least desired one at Delta and that is the only reason you have it. If you stove piped everyone predicated on the highest they could bid, you would be in a 88 which is the same type as a DC9. So guess what, you are no different than an NWA new hire.

PS
Career expectations do mean sh!t. This business is volitile and the only expectation you should really have is that you will probably lose your job at the worst possible time for you and your family.

It drives me nuts when people want their expectations protected. Guess what, when I was 16 I expected to be rich and be living in the playboy mansion by my 30s, I guess I'll have to mention that to the MEC so thay can get that in the SLI.

 

[clippyrip]

Secondly, I'm a new hire in the 747 and my schedule and lifestyle is the same as yours. Actually its better, I have not flown since mid August. By your analysis I should be ahead of all the Delta pilots not flying widebodies.

 

[DTW320]

Let's just say that that would not be my final position if I were God and could write the SLI. However, given this arbitration environment, I think there are all sorts of strategic approaches that both sides are pursuing. I hope that the end result will be something we can all deal with--I hope you (and I) realize that it won't be NWA-gets-top 500-spots-then-DOH-no-fences, nor will it be NWA-gets-the-bottom-500-spots.

I won't say anything more on this. I think we need a fair SLI--everyone should be modestly irritated with the list, but no one egregiously so.

I will drink beer with any and all NWA pilots after all this is said and done, and move forward with our career regardless of the outcome.

I agree 100%. Unfortunately, your well reasoned approach is not shared by the vast majority of your DAL brothers represented here. You should prepare for blacklisting for straying so far from the DTP's (Dalpa Talking Points TM)

:beer:

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Secondly, I'm a new hire in the 747 and my schedule and lifestyle is the same as yours. Actually its better, I have not flown since mid August. By your analysis I should be ahead of all the Delta pilots not flying widebodies. Excuse me, super premium widebodies. How many of those do you guys have, 10.

LMAO! Thanks for the laughs. Its funnier every time I hear it. You guys can use whatever adjectives you want to. I got a couple you can call your mec for the screw job they've given you over the years, and continue to do so.
Truth is, DAL brings 111 widebodies (present day) vs. NW's 63 (also current day). Almost double.
Now granted, DL doesn't have "fortress hubs" in MSP and DTW, but they do have NYC and LAX!
Again, thanks for the laughs.

 

[clippyrip]

737pylt, it might be time to change you avatar, you've been figured out. Of course, it wont take long to figure you out again. Some tool who spouts cr&p from his rotten pie hole is not tough to figure out.

Happy Hunting, sugar t!ts.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

737pylt, it might be time to change you avatar, you've been figured out. Of course, it wont take long to figure you out again. Some tool who spouts cr&p from his rotten pie hole is not tough to figure out.

Happy Hunting, sugar t!ts.

Listen cupcake, I'm not sure who that is, but it sounds like a bunch of you have an obsession.
Thanks for more adjectives, FNG! (there's one in there for ya!)

 

[MJ42]

Listen cupcake, I'm not sure who that is, but it sounds like a bunch of you have an obsession.
Thanks for more adjectives, FNG! (there's one in there for ya!)

I don't know why people think they're so tough behind a computer when in reality I'd bet they're fat ass p*ssies!

Have anything constructive to add Scope? You probably have a lot to add to the discussion, too bad you always decide to take the low road.

 

[Speedbird34]

You hold your position for ONE REASON ONLY...NO ONE ELSE SENIOR WANTS IT! If they did, then they would be flying it. Please leave your "entitlement" attitude at the door when we merge.

BTW, what about my career expectations? Without the merger I'd retire as a widebody Captain and in the top 200...post merger???

I do not care why I hold my position. It is my position and my choice to work for Delta. I do not see why you should take my position from me because of the merger!
I too will retire as a widebody captain so whats the big deal! I just do not want my life and career expectations totally distroyed because of the SLI.
It will hurt but I do not feel the slightest sense of an obligation to have my career expectations crushed so you can be happy.
And I do not care about when you were hired. Means nothing in this deal. You work for a different Airline. The DOH talk is just a load of rubbish.

 

[MJ42]

I do not care why I hold my position. It is my position and my choice to work for Delta. I do not see why you should take my position from me because of the merger!I DON'T WANT YOUR POSITION, it was my choice to work for NWA.
I too will retire as a widebody captain so whats the big deal! I just do not want my life and career expectations totally distroyed because of the SLI.
It will hurt but I do not feel the slightest sense of an obligation to have my career expectations crushed so you can be happy. I FEEL THE SAME...why should I suffer so you can be happy?
And I could not careless about when you were hired. Means nothing in this deal. You work for a different Airline. The DOH talk is just a load of rubbish.WHEN DID I SAY ANYTHING ABOUT DOH...I want fair, which is somewhere between DALPA and NWA positions.

All I hear from you is "me, me, me, me, me and more ME!!! It's all about ME!" Well, let me inform you, IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!!!

 

[Speedbird34]

Too bad buddy, as a new hire it means you are at the bottom of the list. NWA pilots that have been here for ten years should not be put below you. Your position is the least desired one at Delta and that is the only reason you have it. If you stove piped everyone predicated on the highest they could bid, you would be in a 88 which is the same type as a DC9. So guess what, you are no different than an NWA new hire.

PS
Career expectations do mean sh!t. This business is volitile and the only expectation you should really have is that you will probably lose your job at the worst possible time for you and your family.

It drives me nuts when people want their expectations protected. Guess what, when I was 16 I expected to be rich and be living in the playboy mansion by my 30s, I guess I'll have to mention that to the MEC so thay can get that in the SLI.

Well we would soon find out if my career expectations or relative seniority means nothing. Your DOH means nothing to me. You work for a different Airline. It is all about relative seniority!!
If the arbitrators decide a 10year Northwest FO is junior to me then that is the deal dude. And my position is very desired in the system do not kid yourself. It is most likely the best flying we have at Delta Air Lines.

 

[MJ42]

Well we would soon find out if my career expectations or relative seniority means nothing. Your DOH means nothing to me. You work for a different Airline. It is all about relative seniority!!
If the arbitrators decide a 10year Northwest FO is junior to me then that is the deal dude. And my position is very desired in the system do not kid yourself. It is most likely the best flying we have at Delta Air Lines.

Like I said..."ME, ME, ME AND MORE ME!!! I LOVE MYSELF!!!"

Get over yourself, if you had a "desirable" position it would be senior and you wouldn't hold it!

 

[Speedbird34]

All I hear from you is "me, me, me, me, me and more ME!!! It's all about ME!" Well, let me inform you, IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!!!

That is why we have a panel deciding this deal! But that is my own opinion as it relates to me.
I am not going to shed a tear for any NWA pilot junior to me. I am 100% certain that more than will end up junior to me deserve to me behind me!

What did we gain from this merger. You guys got all the goodies and now you also want a seniority grab with our consent because of some DOH mumbo jumbo!

 

[Speedbird34]

Like I said..."ME, ME, ME AND MORE ME!!! I LOVE MYSELF!!!"

Get over yourself, if you had a "desirable" position it would be senior and you wouldn't hold it!

Keep playing that tune! You may even begin to believe it. I am sure the arbitrators would bring you back to reality next month.

 

[MJ42]

That is why we have a panel deciding this deal! But that is my own opinion as it relates to me.
I am not going to shed a tear for any NWA pilot junior to me. I am 100% certain that more than will end up junior to me deserve to me behind me!

What did we gain from this merger. You guys got all the goodies and now you also want a seniority grab with our consent because of some DOH mumbo jumbo!

Exactly, and I'll be man enough to accept their decision...will you, if if turns out differently then you expect? I doubt it, because of your entitlement attitude.