NWA/DAL Arbitration hearing

[castle bravo]

"Try to think of both NWA and DAL guys that have been furloughed and have had to endure more than you have before you start throwing up the white flag."


Are the furloughed NWA people now going to be given longevity credit for time previously spent on furlough?

 

[800Dog]

This is why this SLI is so important. There will be furloughs. DAL has disproportionately exposed itself to the international market, gambing that this was the place to make money during a sluggish economy. A hedge, if you will. However, like most hedges, they can really bite you in the a$$ if you bet the wrong way. Apparently one of the "genius" managers the General trumpets here so often didn't count on a global slowdown - as if the rest of the world was insulated from US market conditions.

Look at the following article and notice 3 important things.

1. Africa traffic is getting hit hard (DAL expansion area)
2. Asia traffic is getting hit hard (NWA exposure)
3. North American traffic growing (DAL and NWA making large cutbacks)

DAL is making all the wrong moves. So much for the "managerial genius" of Dick Anderson.

__________________________________________________________________________



Passenger traffic drops worldwide for the first time since 2003
By TREBOR BANSTETTER
[email protected]


function PopupPic(sPicURL, sHeight, sWidth) { window.open( "http://media.star-telegram.com/popup.html?"+sPicURL, "", "resizable=1,HEIGHT=" +sHeight+ ",WIDTH=" +sWidth); } Passenger traffic on airlines worldwide shrunk last month, the first such decline in five years and another sign of the rapidly slowing economy.
Overall traffic dropped nearly 3 percent in September compared with a year earlier, according to the International Air Transport Association, an industry trade group. It was the first time traffic declined since the SARS outbreak in 2003, which resulted in greatly reduced travel to Asia.

"The deterioration in traffic is alarmingly fast-paced and widespread," said Giovanni Bisignani, chief executive of the Geneva-based group.
The largest drop came in Africa, where traffic fell nearly 8 percent. Traffic in North America declined by about 1 percent, according to the group.
The only region to see growth in September was Latin America, where traffic increased about 2 percent. But even that was well below the 12 percent growth in Latin American traffic in August.
Bisignani said the global airline industry could lose more than $5.2 billion this year, driven by high fuel prices during the first half of the year and the current slowdown in traffic.
"Even the good news that the oil price has fallen to half its July peak is not enough to offset the impact of the drop in demand," he said.
In North America, traffic had grown steadily at about 5 percent this year through August, according to the group. The month also saw a 3 percent decline among Middle Eastern airlines, which had enjoyed double-digit growth for several years.
The decline comes amid some optimism for U.S. carriers. Several analysts are predicting a profit for the industry next year despite the anticipated drop in traffic, largely due to falling fuel prices, higher fares and new passenger fees.
Airline shares dropped Friday amid the market sell-off. Fort Worth-based AMR Corp. (ticker: AMR), the parent company of American Airlines, fell 53 cents, or 5.7 percent, to close at $8.80 a share. Southwest Airlines (LUV), based in Dallas, fell 89 cents to close at $10.97, a 7.5 percent drop.

Traffic decline Airline passenger traffic slipped worldwide in September in every region except Latin America.

RegionTraffic growth (decline)Africa(7.8%)Asia(6.8%)Europe(0.5%)Latin America1.7%Middle East(2.8%)North America(0.9%)Worldwide(2.9%)Source: International Air Transport Association

Every market will be hit hard "genius". Considering there is less competition and higher revenues generated with these markets, it was and still is a good decision to fly to these destinations.

 

[castle bravo]

"DAL is making all the wrong moves. So much for the "managerial genius" of Dick Anderson."

__________________________________________________________________________



Frank,
This is shocking news. Since Anderson was a Continental Airlines staff attorney in the 1980's when YOU were there, one would be inclined to believe that much of your vast managerial prowess would have subsequently rubbed off on him, resulting in a manager who is wholly incapable of any shortcoming.

I guess if it doesn't work out for him at DAL there will always be a place waiting at your Savoy Capital Management, right? After all, you have aptly demonstrated the need for a qualified attorney over the years.

 

[Schwanker]

But, the important part is whether it is relative seniority with fences, or DOH. The Panel HAD to say we need to work this out, because that is really how they want it. They said it in the beginning too. Relative seniority with fences sounds great to me.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Not without a dynamic list to account for attrition. Again, this would be an absolute windfall for DALPA. If the DAL has the significant attrition you say it does, the dynamic concept shouldn't bother you.

Schwanker

 

[michael707767]

Not without a dynamic list to account for attrition. Again, this would be an absolute windfall for DALPA. If the DAL has the significant attrition you say it does, the dynamic concept shouldn't bother you.

whether we get a negotiated or arbitrated agreement, I highly doubt there will be any dynamic component to it.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Exactly. After one list retires the other one kicks in. Do you want to see your guys stagnate as our guys move up. You cannot have it one way. It would have to work for both sides. Ala it ain't gonna happen as it is too complicated.

 

[FDJ2]

From the SLI Proposal:

"2. The date of constructive notice was April 14, 2008"

There's that pesky phrase. My guess is that your 777 orders were made after this date.

Nu

Delta's 10K from February lists 8 firm 777 orders.

 

[FDJ2]

I don't know if this was a direct quote or spin but if it holds true, it is a huge warning shot.

It pretty much blows the whole concept out of the water that NWA is in a superior financial position when compared to DAL, with "super" fortress hubs and "super" wide bodied flying, with a "super" Narita hub.

Looks more like international is international, wide bodied aircraft are wide bodied aircraft, large domestic is large, medium is medium and even "ever ready energizer bunnie" DC-9s are still just small gauge DC-9s.

 

[General Lee]

Not without a dynamic list to account for attrition. Again, this would be an absolute windfall for DALPA. If the DAL has the significant attrition you say it does, the dynamic concept shouldn't bother you.

Schwanker

I guess you think AWA was awarded an absolute windfall by Nicelau?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

"Try to think of both NWA and DAL guys that have been furloughed and have had to endure more than you have before you start throwing up the white flag."


Are the furloughed NWA people now going to be given longevity credit for time previously spent on furlough?

I believe so.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I have heard the same, that 30 DC9's would be pulled from the desert.

As far as the statement about the 787 not being on the DAL property, ugh....general, you know better than to back up here-say.

I'll believe it when I see it on paper.

Hey, I just printed a quote that I thought was interesting. If you re-read my post, I didn't say it was the truth. We do have incommand (new Capt) seminars all the time (since we are growing and getting new planes---something you really aren't doing), and RA does attend those. I just thought it was an interesting quote. And, we also hear we are getting 25 MD90s from Saudia for cheap, and they could be deployed to MSP since they could hit both coasts from there. Just like your DC9 rumor, all speculation, except for the fact that Steenland did say your DC9 numbers were going to decrease from 94 to 63, or down to just 41 -40s/-50s. That was not reflected in your SLI proposal computer model, though, as stated by your guy on the stand. He stated it still had enough Captains for 94 of them, which is unlikely.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[tblosser]

Gen

With all due respect, DAL is big in the Atlantic market from Pan Am, not from Delta. Delta snowballed PAA and assimilated the Atlantic operation while assigning the PAA pilots a seniority something like 1 for 11 until they got to zero and kept going so that Delta hired on top of the most junior PAA pilot. Certainly not fair or even remotely towards the middle as you suggested the kind DAL ALPA was/is.


There were Pan Am guys that were initially put below future Delta newhires. However this was done at the request of the PAA MEC. Why would they do this? Because they were not pilots they were engineers and not part of ALPA. The engineers union tried to do an end run around PAA ALPA to get a more favorable integration for themselves. At any rate it was corrected once everyone was on the property here at Delta

We all know that PAA was smaller than DAL,...kind of leaves a bad taste in ones mouth.


We also all know that the pilots that came to Delta from PAA keep flying while those who stayed at PAA eventually saw they job disappear. This has no bearing on what is happening today.


NWA might be a little bit smaller, but NWA is financially stronger making more profit from every dollar spent. We'll show yalls how,...just watch...

The plural of ya’ll is yens. As in yens are gonna learn to speak southern like or not.

 

[General Lee]

There are still ~92 DC-9's on the property as we speak, with plans for 64 by years end. Where the hell to you come up with 41?

Also persistent rumors of increasing the numbers of DC9's by up to 30 as fuel prices drop. The ones that are parked are in "hot" storage and can be back on line in very short order.

41 was the final number of -40s/-50s. After you get rid of all of the -30s, you would have 41 of the larger versions left. It would be great if you did keep more DC9s, but just like our MD90 rumor, it is all speculation. What we do have to go by now is what your current CEO has stated, which is closer to the 63 or 41 numbers.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

41 was the final number of -40s/-50s. After you get rid of all of the -30s, you would have 41 of the larger versions left. It would be great if you did keep more DC9s, but just like our MD90 rumor, it is all speculation. What we do have to go by now is what your current CEO has stated, which is closer to the 63 or 41 numbers.

Odd...we heard that the MX management types mentioned that the 90s were going away. Something about there's no commonality with the rest of the fleet (like NWAs MD80 fleet), and that there are reasonably priced Airbus 320s that could be used to replace them.

Given a choice of adding a defunct airplane to an already small fleet (16), or adding more 320s to an already large fleet, I could see the -90s getting parked in exchange for some 320s, especiallly if Airbus is trying to get more 330 orders, which we all know RA loves.

But don't worry, I'm sure you can make some good points at the "replacement aircraft" arbitration.

Nu

 

[NuGuy]

...even "ever ready energizer bunnie" DC-9s are still just small gauge DC-9s.

Hey FDJ,

I see you guys are still coordinating your talking points. But tell your buddies on the Communications Committee that it's actually spelled: Eveready (one word, capitalized proper noun), Energizer (capitalized proper noun) bunny (my 1st grade niece knows how to spell bunny).

And yes, they're still going....

Tell all the boyos on the Communications Committee "hi" for me.


Nu