Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

NWA/DAL Arbitration hearing

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
From the SLI Proposal:

"2. The date of constructive notice was April 14, 2008"

There's that pesky phrase. My guess is that your 777 orders were made after this date.

Nu

Incorrect. We have had those orders for awhile, and they were scheduled for 4 early in 09 (one actually Dec 31st, 08---the other 3 all on March 1st), and then two more scheduled for later in the year. To have 4 come early in 09, we must have had the orders a long time before April of 08. So, where would they go under your proposal anyway? To the greenbooks? Riiiight. Not gonna fly. And what about the 415 DC9 Captain slots? For how many DC9s again? In that snapshot you had 94. You KNOW that we won't have 94 DC9s at Delta, right? How many are scheduled to leave now?



And, here is a seperate quote from Andyd, who stated this on a different thread that I found interesting:


"Just flew with a guy who attended the "in command" course last week and RA told his class that due to the economy/credit crises and uncertanties of the merger that hiring was off the plate for '09. Also said that 787's will never be on DAL property....fwiw"


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Last edited:
Incorrect. We have had those orders for awhile, and they were scheduled for 4 early in 09 (one actually Dec 31st, 08---the other 3 all on March 1st), and then two more scheduled for later in the year. To have 4 come early in 09, we must have had the orders a long time before April of 08. So, where would they go under your proposal anyway? To the greenbooks? Riiiight. Not gonna fly. And what about the 415 DC9 Captain slots? For how many DC9s again? In that snapshot you had 94. You KNOW that we won't have 94 DC9s at Delta, right? How many are scheduled to leave now?



And, here is a seperate quote from Andyd, who stated this on a different thread that I found interesting:


"Just flew with a guy who attended the "in command" course last week and RA told his class that due to the economy/credit crises and uncertanties of the merger that hiring was off the plate for '09. Also said that 787's will never be on DAL property....fwiw"


Bye Bye--General Lee

Bummer...sucks to be you.
 
And, are there really 415 Captain slots for 41 DC9s? Ok, 63 DC9s? Which is it? I guess I should ask when was this created? Jan 1st of 2008 (like the computer model), or June 1st, 2008????

Bye Bye---General Lee


There are still ~92 DC-9's on the property as we speak, with plans for 64 by years end. Where the hell to you come up with 41?

Also persistent rumors of increasing the numbers of DC9's by up to 30 as fuel prices drop. The ones that are parked are in "hot" storage and can be back on line in very short order.
 
There are still ~92 DC-9's on the property as we speak, with plans for 64 by years end. Where the hell to you come up with 41?

Also persistent rumors of increasing the numbers of DC9's by up to 30 as fuel prices drop. The ones that are parked are in "hot" storage and can be back on line in very short order.


I have heard the same, that 30 DC9's would be pulled from the desert.

As far as the statement about the 787 not being on the DAL property, ugh....general, you know better than to back up here-say.

I'll believe it when I see it on paper.
 
"Just flew with a guy who attended the "in command" course last week and RA told his class that due to the economy/credit crises and uncertanties of the merger that hiring was off the plate for '09. Also said that 787's will never be on DAL property....fwiw"

This is why this SLI is so important. There will be furloughs. DAL has disproportionately exposed itself to the international market, gambing that this was the place to make money during a sluggish economy. A hedge, if you will. However, like most hedges, they can really bite you in the a$$ if you bet the wrong way. Apparently one of the "genius" managers the General trumpets here so often didn't count on a global slowdown - as if the rest of the world was insulated from US market conditions.

Look at the following article and notice 3 important things.

1. Africa traffic is getting hit hard (DAL expansion area)
2. Asia traffic is getting hit hard (NWA exposure)
3. North American traffic growing (DAL and NWA making large cutbacks)

DAL is making all the wrong moves. So much for the "managerial genius" of Dick Anderson.

__________________________________________________________________________



Passenger traffic drops worldwide for the first time since 2003
By TREBOR BANSTETTER
[email protected]


function PopupPic(sPicURL, sHeight, sWidth) { window.open( "http://media.star-telegram.com/popup.html?"+sPicURL, "", "resizable=1,HEIGHT=" +sHeight+ ",WIDTH=" +sWidth); } Passenger traffic on airlines worldwide shrunk last month, the first such decline in five years and another sign of the rapidly slowing economy.
Overall traffic dropped nearly 3 percent in September compared with a year earlier, according to the International Air Transport Association, an industry trade group. It was the first time traffic declined since the SARS outbreak in 2003, which resulted in greatly reduced travel to Asia.

"The deterioration in traffic is alarmingly fast-paced and widespread," said Giovanni Bisignani, chief executive of the Geneva-based group.
The largest drop came in Africa, where traffic fell nearly 8 percent. Traffic in North America declined by about 1 percent, according to the group.
The only region to see growth in September was Latin America, where traffic increased about 2 percent. But even that was well below the 12 percent growth in Latin American traffic in August.
Bisignani said the global airline industry could lose more than $5.2 billion this year, driven by high fuel prices during the first half of the year and the current slowdown in traffic.
"Even the good news that the oil price has fallen to half its July peak is not enough to offset the impact of the drop in demand," he said.
In North America, traffic had grown steadily at about 5 percent this year through August, according to the group. The month also saw a 3 percent decline among Middle Eastern airlines, which had enjoyed double-digit growth for several years.
The decline comes amid some optimism for U.S. carriers. Several analysts are predicting a profit for the industry next year despite the anticipated drop in traffic, largely due to falling fuel prices, higher fares and new passenger fees.
Airline shares dropped Friday amid the market sell-off. Fort Worth-based AMR Corp. (ticker: AMR), the parent company of American Airlines, fell 53 cents, or 5.7 percent, to close at $8.80 a share. Southwest Airlines (LUV), based in Dallas, fell 89 cents to close at $10.97, a 7.5 percent drop.

Traffic decline Airline passenger traffic slipped worldwide in September in every region except Latin America.

RegionTraffic growth (decline)Africa(7.8%)Asia(6.8%)Europe(0.5%)Latin America1.7%Middle East(2.8%)North America(0.9%)Worldwide(2.9%)Source: International Air Transport Association
 
"Try to think of both NWA and DAL guys that have been furloughed and have had to endure more than you have before you start throwing up the white flag."


Are the furloughed NWA people now going to be given longevity credit for time previously spent on furlough?
 
This is why this SLI is so important. There will be furloughs. DAL has disproportionately exposed itself to the international market, gambing that this was the place to make money during a sluggish economy. A hedge, if you will. However, like most hedges, they can really bite you in the a$$ if you bet the wrong way. Apparently one of the "genius" managers the General trumpets here so often didn't count on a global slowdown - as if the rest of the world was insulated from US market conditions.

Look at the following article and notice 3 important things.

1. Africa traffic is getting hit hard (DAL expansion area)
2. Asia traffic is getting hit hard (NWA exposure)
3. North American traffic growing (DAL and NWA making large cutbacks)

DAL is making all the wrong moves. So much for the "managerial genius" of Dick Anderson.

__________________________________________________________________________



Passenger traffic drops worldwide for the first time since 2003
By TREBOR BANSTETTER
[email protected]


function PopupPic(sPicURL, sHeight, sWidth) { window.open( "http://media.star-telegram.com/popup.html?"+sPicURL, "", "resizable=1,HEIGHT=" +sHeight+ ",WIDTH=" +sWidth); } Passenger traffic on airlines worldwide shrunk last month, the first such decline in five years and another sign of the rapidly slowing economy.
Overall traffic dropped nearly 3 percent in September compared with a year earlier, according to the International Air Transport Association, an industry trade group. It was the first time traffic declined since the SARS outbreak in 2003, which resulted in greatly reduced travel to Asia.

"The deterioration in traffic is alarmingly fast-paced and widespread," said Giovanni Bisignani, chief executive of the Geneva-based group.
The largest drop came in Africa, where traffic fell nearly 8 percent. Traffic in North America declined by about 1 percent, according to the group.
The only region to see growth in September was Latin America, where traffic increased about 2 percent. But even that was well below the 12 percent growth in Latin American traffic in August.
Bisignani said the global airline industry could lose more than $5.2 billion this year, driven by high fuel prices during the first half of the year and the current slowdown in traffic.
"Even the good news that the oil price has fallen to half its July peak is not enough to offset the impact of the drop in demand," he said.
In North America, traffic had grown steadily at about 5 percent this year through August, according to the group. The month also saw a 3 percent decline among Middle Eastern airlines, which had enjoyed double-digit growth for several years.
The decline comes amid some optimism for U.S. carriers. Several analysts are predicting a profit for the industry next year despite the anticipated drop in traffic, largely due to falling fuel prices, higher fares and new passenger fees.
Airline shares dropped Friday amid the market sell-off. Fort Worth-based AMR Corp. (ticker: AMR), the parent company of American Airlines, fell 53 cents, or 5.7 percent, to close at $8.80 a share. Southwest Airlines (LUV), based in Dallas, fell 89 cents to close at $10.97, a 7.5 percent drop.

Traffic decline Airline passenger traffic slipped worldwide in September in every region except Latin America.

RegionTraffic growth (decline)Africa(7.8%)Asia(6.8%)Europe(0.5%)Latin America1.7%Middle East(2.8%)North America(0.9%)Worldwide(2.9%)Source: International Air Transport Association



Every market will be hit hard "genius". Considering there is less competition and higher revenues generated with these markets, it was and still is a good decision to fly to these destinations.
 
"DAL is making all the wrong moves. So much for the "managerial genius" of Dick Anderson."

__________________________________________________________________________



Frank,
This is shocking news. Since Anderson was a Continental Airlines staff attorney in the 1980's when YOU were there, one would be inclined to believe that much of your vast managerial prowess would have subsequently rubbed off on him, resulting in a manager who is wholly incapable of any shortcoming.

I guess if it doesn't work out for him at DAL there will always be a place waiting at your Savoy Capital Management, right? After all, you have aptly demonstrated the need for a qualified attorney over the years.
 
Last edited:
But, the important part is whether it is relative seniority with fences, or DOH. The Panel HAD to say we need to work this out, because that is really how they want it. They said it in the beginning too. Relative seniority with fences sounds great to me.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Not without a dynamic list to account for attrition. Again, this would be an absolute windfall for DALPA. If the DAL has the significant attrition you say it does, the dynamic concept shouldn't bother you.

Schwanker
 
Not without a dynamic list to account for attrition. Again, this would be an absolute windfall for DALPA. If the DAL has the significant attrition you say it does, the dynamic concept shouldn't bother you.


whether we get a negotiated or arbitrated agreement, I highly doubt there will be any dynamic component to it.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top