NWA/DAL Arbitration hearing

[Voice Of Reason]

Heyas,

Dunno. DOH with a 10 year fence sounds pretty reasonable.

Each side sticks with what they brought. How can that be a bad thing...isn't that what the junior DAL guys have been crying about all along?

The DAL guys can enjoy their 767s and 777 (mmm, don't forget those malaria meds!), and the NWA guys can enjoy the 330, -200, -400 and 787.

After 10 years, the disparity in the demographics of each group will be pretty much gone.

Recently heard....since the collapse of oil, the 28 DC-9-30s in storage are being recalled to service.

Nu

I agree that sounds like the best plan for both sides...
Didn't I read, though, something about Anderson saying fences were not an option?
Does he have a choice if arbitration rules it that way?
Would fences affect you guys negatively if your aircrafts get sent to inferior bases like JFK or SLC? From what it sounds like, as soon as this all goes down they are going to be swapping your aircrafts ALL OVER the place...would fences hurt you? (I would look at ALL aspects, not the "leaked" aircraft to bases info seen on here earlier)...

 

[p3flteng]

The NWA DOH proposal is posted on the ALPA/ merger site. The difference for me (a near bottom NW guy) is about 400 numbers between the two proposals. I would prefer the DOH as it slides me in with the Delta guys who were hired the same time as last year, but in a spirit of compromise I would hope that we can come to some agreement and I end up no more than a hundred or so off the mark. I think thats a fair give and take. Anymore than that is just greed IMHO. I will however not hold any grudges and go happily to work...no matter what the outcome.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

The NWA DOH proposal is posted on the ALPA/ merger site. The difference for me (a near bottom NW guy) is about 400 numbers between the two proposals. I would prefer the DOH as it slides me in with the Delta guys who were hired the same time as last year, but in a spirit of compromise I would hope that we can come to some agreement and I end up no more than a hundred or so off the mark. I think thats a fair give and take. Anymore than that is just greed IMHO. I will however not hold any grudges and go happily to work...no matter what the outcome.

I see no reason whatsoever that it should be anything OTHER than straight date of hire, especially for new guys hired on both sides at all this year. Everyone in the industry knew about this merger, and no pilot that accepted a class date in 2008 should have any expectations of being ahead of any other pilot hired this year on the other side in what was known to be a merger of equals all this time.
If you were in say an April class date, you should reasonably expect to be ahead of a DL guy with a July class date.
Here's an interesting thing to ponder... Having friends in both places, I know that NWA's class seniority is based on birthdate, and DL's within each class is based on last 4 digits of ssn (odd)...How is all of THAT going to work into all of this? (GeneralLee on ignore need not reply)

 

[General Lee]

Heyas,

Dunno. DOH with a 10 year fence sounds pretty reasonable.

Each side sticks with what they brought. How can that be a bad thing...isn't that what the junior DAL guys have been crying about all along?

The DAL guys can enjoy their 767s and 777 (mmm, don't forget those malaria meds!), and the NWA guys can enjoy the 330, -200, -400 and 787.

After 10 years, the disparity in the demographics of each group will be pretty much gone.

Recently heard....since the collapse of oil, the 28 DC-9-30s in storage are being recalled to service.

Nu

So, what if the 787s don't get ordered after all, and the 747-200s go away as "planned?" What then? We get all of the 777s coming, right? They are on our certificate right now. What about the 25 MD90s coming from Saudia supposedly? They are going to MSP "supposedly." (I have to say that on here)

I don't think any of that is gonna float. You didn't use DOH with Republic, did you? You had a 20 year fence, and still didn't do DOH. And, as our lawyer and your A320FO pointed out, attrition has NEVER been used in any merger case. How about relative seniority and then a 10 year fence. Sounds better, because in 10 years a lot of us will still be here, and DOH doesn't work. It never has in any ALPA merger---it has never been done. As our lawyer pointed out and your 747 Captain pointed out, you never have used it yourself, until you are the smaller entity.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

The NWA DOH proposal is posted on the ALPA/ merger site. The difference for me (a near bottom NW guy) is about 400 numbers between the two proposals. I would prefer the DOH as it slides me in with the Delta guys who were hired the same time as last year, but in a spirit of compromise I would hope that we can come to some agreement and I end up no more than a hundred or so off the mark. I think thats a fair give and take. Anymore than that is just greed IMHO. I will however not hold any grudges and go happily to work...no matter what the outcome.

Spirit of compromise? You started to the far left, and we started fairly close to the middle. Is it greed when your side is losing aircraft or bringing less to the table? Your airline is parking DC9s (even if they keep some more than planned, they are still parking some), and the 742s are pretty much toast----those planes aren't good for cargo anymore (according to the guy who will be running them after the merger is done). We are adding planes, and not just 787s that haven't been flown ever.

I also will be happy to come to work, but being fair is about what is brought to the table. Really.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I see no reason whatsoever that it should be anything OTHER than straight date of hire, especially for new guys hired on both sides at all this year. Everyone in the industry knew about this merger, and no pilot that accepted a class date in 2008 should have any expectations of being ahead of any other pilot hired this year on the other side in what was known to be a merger of equals all this time.
If you were in say an April class date, you should reasonably expect to be ahead of a DL guy with a July class date.
Here's an interesting thing to ponder... Having friends in both places, I know that NWA's class seniority is based on birthdate, and DL's within each class is based on last 4 digits of ssn (odd)...How is all of THAT going to work into all of this? (GeneralLee on ignore need not reply)

We just started the social security deal with the recent hirings. Before 9-11, it was all Date of birth for people in class. The reason dealt with age discrimination. United also uses social security numbers. That way, it is all up to chance.


And, I am glad I am on your ignore list. Everyone else can read it though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Heavy Set]

We just started the social security deal with the recent hirings. Before 9-11, it was all Date of birth for people in class. The reason dealt with age discrimination. United also uses social security numbers. That way, it is all up to chance.


And, I am glad I am on your ignore list. Everyone else can read it though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Very interesting Lee. I didn't know United did that.

 

[Heavy Set]

So, what if the 787s don't get ordered after all, and the 747-200s go away as "planned?" What then? We get all of the 777s coming, right? They are on our certificate right now. What about the 25 MD90s coming from Saudia supposedly? They are going to MSP "supposedly." (I have to say that on here)

I don't think any of that is gonna float. You didn't use DOH with Republic, did you? You had a 20 year fence, and still didn't do DOH. And, as our lawyer and your A320FO pointed out, attrition has NEVER been used in any merger case. How about relative seniority and then a 10 year fence. Sounds better, because in 10 years a lot of us will still be here, and DOH doesn't work. It never has in any ALPA merger---it has never been done. As our lawyer pointed out and your 747 Captain pointed out, you never have used it yourself, until you are the smaller entity.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Good argument, and I don't even have a fight in this.

 

[NuGuy]

So, what if the 787s don't get ordered after all.

You didn't use DOH with Republic, did you? You had a 20 year fence, and still didn't do DOH.

Ummmm, the 787s are on firm order, and have been for a while. I haven't seen any press releases about more MD-90s..where do I look for those?

The NWA/Republic merger WAS DOH...and, gasp, was awarded BY the arbitrator.

The NWA position is basically was has been already awarded by previous arbitrations...DOH with a fence.

You guys have been screaming up and down for a fence, so you should be pretty happy about this.

Nu

 

[Voice Of Reason]

You guys have been screaming up and down for a fence, so you should be pretty happy about this.

Nu

Again, didn't DL's beloved leader mandate NO fences, though?