NO JS to anti-ALPA types

[CFIT]

I can see the idea of somebody being denied the jumpseat because he didn't vote ALPO and then claiming the Captain could be intoxicated becoming a reality, you know it will happen.

It wont take much of that to kill it for everybody.
Another ALPO victory!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I can see the idea of somebody being denied the jumpseat because he didn't vote ALPO and then claiming the Captain could be intoxicated becoming a reality, you know it will happen.

It wont take much of that to kill it for everybody.
Another ALPO victory!

CFIT!

I am still waiting for you to answer the "tough" questions...

In the meantime... since you don't have to pay that dreaded, quality of life draining, 2% dues you don't hae to jumpseat... just use the 2% for ID90's!

Not voting in ALPA was like getting a 2% raise!

The jumpseat conference is usually in the Spring... are the SKYW pilots going to send a rep? (even that gives me a chuckle...) Then again why should you.... you'll just freeload off the results of the conference...



Does the SKYW pilots have agreements with Canadian or other foreign carriers...?

 

[Soverytired]

Regionals denying jumpseats. What a joke.

Jumpseat on Southwest or JetBlue. They go to 90% of the country anyway, their jumpseat policies kick ass, they're all super nice, and don't give two ********************s about ALPA.

(or if they do, they won't ask)

 

[Capn Lucky]

"Jumpseat" wars accomplish nothing except making regionals look like losers. Also, they are usually started by people who don't commute.

 

[Airline Driver]

You need to go over to the "regional airline pilots union" thread to read why in-house unions don't work, especially for regional airlines. In-house unions are a mistake. Believe me, I'm a member of one.

Well Sir you have your opinion and I have mine. Fact of the matter is this, getting back to the original scope of this thread, the jump seat is not a carrot to use as a power trip that some Idiots use to get their rocks off. It should not matter what race, religion, Opinion, or background the person is coming from.

Anybody that does deny a fellow pilot a ride to work or a ride home to their family, is nothing but a No good worthless bottom feeding looser who needs their A$$ lit of fire. :0 Professional courtesy has gone out the window and needs an overhaul. We have too many snot nosed ego maniacs in this business. People need to grow up and get over it, move on and play the game right or simply get out!!!!!!!

Ahhhhhhhhhhh!! Now I feel better!!

 

[CFIT]

CFIT!

I am still waiting for you to answer the "tough" questions...

In the meantime... since you don't have to pay that dreaded, quality of life draining, 2% dues you don't hae to jumpseat... just use the 2% for ID90's!

Not voting in ALPA was like getting a 2% raise!

The jumpseat conference is usually in the Spring... are the SKYW pilots going to send a rep? (even that gives me a chuckle...) Then again why should you.... you'll just freeload off the results of the conference...



Does the SKYW pilots have agreements with Canadian or other foreign carriers...?

I suppose ALPA is the answer to all your tough questions, right? That doesn't appear to be the mood on the major board is it?

And yes with the money I've saved so far this year, I do buy full fare tickets for my family and myself, screw ID90's.

I havn't jumpseated in years so I think that should be handled by those that do. My point was that if the ALPA Klan members that use it for discriminatory reasons and someone gets pissed and has the plane return to the gate for a suspected alcohol test it could cause enough trouble to have the privilege yanked for everybody.

But I suppose that's OK as it supports your cause, right?

 

[Metro752]

Anyone else who has been on FI for any amount of time knows Pookie is just yanking your chain. Ahaha 14 pages because Pookie was bored.

Idiots.

 

[Caspian27]

Don't forget, we also voted down Teamsters too.

Yeah. Teamsters would've been WAAAAAY better (not!)

 

[Caspian27]

I think we did a good job getting the word out. The SKYW pilots were either ignorant or selfish...



They can hang together or seperately. A choice they made no doubt....the SKYW pilots just gave us the symbolic middle finger... at least that is the message we received...

Rez,

You quoted too many different things for me to quote and respond to them without it sounding confused.

You can have whatever opinion you like about this issue, however lumping ALL SkyWest pilots together as dumb, not respecting the industry, etc is just plain ignorant. Did you see that 1/3 of the group voted yes? Your response was basically "hang in the noose together." Cool. Well, unfortunately some decided not to vote or voted no. The rest of us tried our best to not let that happen. But crucifying those people now and the entire pilot group is not the answer. The vote is over and it's time to move on...

Do we still live in a democracy? It's things like this that make me wonder if we're living in a socialist state...

PCL,

You say that in-house unions are a failure. Now let's say there was a vote at Citrus where your only choice was in-house (which isn't your preference) or nothing (which is even less your preference). What would you do? Wait for the right situation or bring what you believed a flawed situation into your company.

All I'm preaching is levity everyone. I voted one way, and some others didn't. It's over. Let's move on. Maybe a better way is to use your jumpseats as a way to educate people on union benefits than a "Jimmy Hoffa" punishment which people will remember much longer and put a much more sour taste about unions in their mouth.

My two cents.

C27

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

NO SKYW pilot wants to acknowledge the efforts by ALPA that they benefit from! THERE is no reply from the SKYW management lovers to even try and justify.

As far as the 1/3.... you tried and that is respected... If one the 66% Klub lies and says "Yeah I voted for ALPA, can I ride the jumpseat..." a few follow up questions will reveal the truth...

Tired of the feeeleaders... too much work to be done.... the freeloaders make it harder...

Any SKYW pilots going to be at the Spring 08 jumpseat conference?

 

[CFIT]

NO SKYW pilot wants to acknowledge the efforts by ALPA that they benefit from! THERE is no reply from the SKYW management lovers to even try and justify.

As far as the 1/3.... you tried and that is respected... If one the 66% Klub lies and says "Yeah I voted for ALPA, can I ride the jumpseat..." a few follow up questions will reveal the truth...

Tired of the feeeleaders... too much work to be done.... the freeloaders make it harder...ridge for

Any SKYW pilots going to be at the Spring 08 jumpseat conference?

Yes, Skywest has sent our Jump Seat Coordinator and usually a domcile chief pilot for the last 5 years, that I am aware of. Our Jump Seat Coordinator has worked with other JSC's at all the other major airlines to ensure a useful and beneficial means for airline pilots, both domestic and international. Our JSC has also kept us informed of prevelant security issues and has aligned SkyWest in the TSA's CASS system, just like all of the other major airlines. The other major airlines work in unison with our JSC to ensure a seemless bridge for all airline pilots.

Is that what you ment?

 

[CFIT]

NO SKYW pilot wants to acknowledge the efforts by ALPA that they benefit from! THERE is no reply from the SKYW management lovers to even try and justify.

As far as the 1/3.... you tried and that is respected... If one the 66% Klub lies and says "Yeah I voted for ALPA, can I ride the jumpseat..." a few follow up questions will reveal the truth...

Tired of the feeeleaders... too much work to be done.... the freeloaders make it harder...

Any SKYW pilots going to be at the Spring 08 jumpseat conference?

bbbbb

 

[PCL_128]

You say that in-house unions are a failure. Now let's say there was a vote at Citrus where your only choice was in-house (which isn't your preference) or nothing (which is even less your preference). What would you do? Wait for the right situation or bring what you believed a flawed situation into your company.

Bring in the flawed situation and wait for the opportunity to bring an improved situation. Pretty simple. Any union is better than no union, but ALPA is far and away the best choice for professional air line pilots.

 

[Soverytired]

Bring in the flawed situation and wait for the opportunity to bring an improved situation. Pretty simple. Any union is better than no union, but ALPA is far and away the best choice for professional air line pilots.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[take deep breath]

bwah-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahah

[breathe, wipe tears from eyes]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[sniff, sniff]


Uh, I disagree.

 

[Occam's Razor]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[take deep breath]

bwah-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahaahahah

[breathe, wipe tears from eyes]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[sniff, sniff]


Uh, I disagree.

Based on that keen insight, and nuanced logic...who could disagree?

'Cept maybe someone with a 3-digit IQ.

Back to topic: If you give the jumpseat to any carbon-based unit that clears CASS, I think you're doing profession a disservice.

You have an OBLIGATION (not my opinion, a fact) to ensure that anyone riding in the cockpit is not impaired, will follow the crew's instructions, and will not distract the crew.

Want my jumpseat? You'll answer my questions. I'm not gonna grill you on union, political, or religious issues...but I am gonna make sure your Cooperation switch is safety-wired ON. If you're a VirginAmerica, jetBlue, or AirTran guy...I might even ask if you have an ALPA card. The answer isn't really important. The way you answer is.

Don't like it?

Waaaaah!

 

[Dude]

PCL,

You crack me up. Apparently you have figured out this whole industry in just a few years. With your infinite wisdom and anti-ALPA biggotry, you have helped perpetuate the, us vs. them, battle.

How many jumpseats are you denying as a first officer, by the way? Your obvious love for ALPA is one thing, but using the jumpseat to indoctrinate people is another. If someone disagrees with YOU then so be it. Saying "F&ck ALPA isn't saying "F&ck You", know is it? NO, it isn't! You are an eliteist little $hit that uses the cockpit as a pulpit. I have seen plenty of morons on the jumpseat and will see many more, but to get in the way of them getting home is futile and foolish. By the way, I don't agree with everything Joe says but you don't like him because he debates you accordingly and you have too little credibility and accurate knowledge to refute his ideas. You can't stand that he doesn't agree with you; why is that I wonder?

PCL, in spirit of your mentality I am going to ask every jumpseater if he knows and has a personal relationship with the Lord, Jesus Christ. How's that? Maybe I'll ask them to tell me if they think that paper or plastic is more superior of a grocery container. I got it.....Boeing or Douglas? This argument will continue into oblivion, thank you very much. And Pookie if you asked me a question regardless of how incendiary I would answer honestly. If you deny me for that reason, shame on you and the parents that raised you.

 

[Soverytired]

Based on that keen insight, and nuanced logic...who could disagree?

'Cept maybe someone with a 3-digit IQ.

I would remind you that by definition, an AVERAGE IQ is 100. That's right . . . 50% of the population falls in this bracket (75% are 110 or below), and while I'm not aware of any studies that compare pilot IQ's to the rest of the general population, I doubt very much that we're anything special in the IQ department.

PCL and RezOL will always beat the ALPA drum:

• ALPA is double-plus good.
• Non-ALPA is double-plus bad.
• All failures of ALPA are really failures of the pilots who didn't give enough to ALPA.
• All good things of aviation are the result of ALPA, even if they're not on the property

Bottom line . . . nuanced arguments are pointless with some people.

PBBBTTTTT !!!!
<fart noise>

 

[Occam's Razor]

Bottom line . . . nuanced arguments are pointless with some people.

Maybe that's because some folks with double-digit IQ's don't know what questions to ask, or what points to make.

Here's a tip: Start a thread that asks if anyone can identify ALPA's weaknesses.

My prediction: Both Rez and PCL are more tuned-in to ALPA's weaknesses than all the mindless ALPA-bashers (redundance, that) out there.

 

[Nevets]

Here is the WHOLE ALPA Jumpseat Policy. Your company will determine its jumpseat policy (dress code, priority, etc). The captain should prohibit jumpseaters if it compromises safety (your comapny will also expect this of you).

PART 1 - JUMPSEAT POLICY

SOURCE - Executive Board October 1997; AMENDED - Board 2000
The following policy provides guidelines that may be used by Master Executive Councils in establishing jumpseat policies and procedures with their respective airlines.
ALPA encourages participation by other pilot unions and officials of non-represented airlines in the industry-wide Jumpseat Task Force.
ALPA encourages all pilots to extend the use of their jumpseats to eligible cockpit crewmembers as a professional courtesy and as a resource to enhance the safety of flight. The Captain is, and shall always be, the final authority as to admission to the flight deck.
Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA. The Jumpseat and/or Professional Standards Representative appointed by the respective Master Executive Council or governing body should resolve disputes that arise between pilots, airlines or other unions.
Master Executive Councils should appoint a Jumpseat Coordinator/Committee Chairperson and authorize him/her to work with their Company in establishing and administering jumpseat policy and procedures.
A.MEC JUMPSEAT COORDINATOR/COMMITTEE CHAIRPERSON

1.Guidelines for selection of Jumpseat Coordinator/Committee Chairperson

a.Experience - must be knowledgeable of the applicable Federal Aviation Regulations, associated legal interpretations and specific company policies that affect jumpseat usage at their respective airline.

b.Appointment/Term of Office - per MEC policy.

2.Funding for MEC Jumpseat Coordinators/Committee Chairpersons

a.Necessary funding for the MEC Jumpseat Coordinator/Committee Chairperson should be arranged by the respective MEC. Funding considerations should include flight pay loss, as well as other related expenses, to adequately represent pilot issues.

B.DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF JUMPSEAT COORDINATORS/COMMITTEE CHAIRPERSONS

1.Establish appropriate communication with the MEC to insure proper administration and compliance with the respective airline's jumpseat program.

a.The Jumpseat Coordinator/Committee Chairperson should report directly to the MEC Chairperson or designated appointee. The Coordinator or Chairperson should be authorized to represent the MEC in dealings with Company Officers on jumpseat matters. Issues of a critical nature should immediately be addressed to the MEC Chairperson.

2.Maintain an accurate file of company and industry-wide jumpseat policy and procedures.

a.When changes occur, the MEC Jumpseat Coordinator or Committee Chairperson should communicate them to the ALPA National Jumpseat Committee Chairperson for appropriate dissemination. ALPA resources will be used to keep all members of the Jumpseat Task Force informed on specific airline policies and procedures.

b.Communicate company and industry-wide changes of jumpseat procedures and protocol to the pilot group and other affected company employees. Appropriate union and/or company media sources should be incorporated to accomplish this.

3.Address and resolve issues that may arise over jumpseat authority and usage in a timely manner. Reciprocal airline and other off-line matters should be discussed with the associated Jumpseat Coordinator. Discussions beyond ALPA represented carriers should include the ALPA National Jumpseat Chairperson.

4.Submit a Jumpseat Coordinator/Committee report at all regularly scheduled meetings of the MEC, or as otherwise directed.

C.ADMISSION TO FLIGHT DECK

1.Captains should be familiar with applicable Federal Air Regulations and their own Company policies concerning jumpseat use.

2.ALPA supports the Captain's authority to manage the flight deck environment and resources in a manner that enhances safety. Accordingly, ALPA supports the Captain's authority to exclude any person other than required crew from the flight deck if, in his opinion, that person's presence will compromise safety.

3.If a jumpseat rider is to remain on the flight deck, the Captain will ensure that he/she is properly briefed on safety, communication and evacuation procedures. This may be done verbally or by means of a printed aircraft specific briefing card.

4.ALPA and most airlines consider a pilot jumpseat rider as an additional crewmember. Pilot jumpseat riders must be prepared to exercise flight related tasks that the Captain may assign.

D.CABIN SEATING

1.In accordance with company policy, if a cabin seat(s) is available, the Captain may offer it to a jumpseat rider(s) to accommodate additional jumpseat requests. Appropriate procedures for such accommodations should be adopted and developed as Company policy.

2.As representatives of their airline and profession, jumpseat riders must conduct themselves in a manner that is above reproach at all times.

3.Although seated in the cabin, jumpseat riders may be asked to assist the cockpit or cabin crew in certain situations.

E.SECURITY/IDENTIFICATION

1.Without exception, security is paramount in all aspects of aviation safety. The Captain is responsible for ensuring that all jumpseat riders admitted to the flight deck have in their possession the proper documentation. For pilots, this shall include airmen's certification and valid company ID. Jumpseat riders should have this identification readily available for inspection.

2.Host Captains should recognize that a union membership card is another means of identity verification, although not all pilots of represented airlines are union members.

3.Under the Captain's authority, entry to the flight deck will not be permitted for individuals with whom the Captain or his flight deck crew is not entirely comfortable.

F.JUMPSEAT FRAUD AND ABUSE

1.A fraudulent jumpseat rider is an individual attempting to gain access to a flight deck by knowingly being deceptive. Counterfeit IDs, failure of medical certificate standards or dismissal by the presented employer constitute fraudulent representation.

2.An abuse of the jumpseat privilege includes, but is not limited to, individuals revenue positioning at company request for reasons other than commuting to or from work or on personal business.

G.BOARDING PRIORITY

1.It is understood that certain individuals, such as government or company officials in the performance of their duties, must be given free and unlimited access to the cockpit by FAR. Seniority, first-come, first-served or a reservation system may be used for company and off-line pilots.

2.Extending preferential boarding to specific carriers shall be reviewed and amended when determined appropriate by the Coordinator/Chairperson, the MEC and the Company.

3.Within boarding priority, most airlines accommodate off-line jumpseat riders on a first-come, first-served basis. Due consideration should be given to union affiliation. Any problems that arise should be quickly referred to the Captain for resolution.

4.Company boarding priority for other individuals shall be mutually developed by the Jumpseat Coordinator/Committee Chairperson, the airline management and the MEC.

H.OTHER JUMPSEAT REQUESTS

1.The FAA has an established procedure whereby air traffic controllers are allowed access to the cockpit for familiarization flights. ALPA supports these familiarization flights and encourages pilots to welcome controllers into their cockpits for this purpose. ATC personnel must have in their possession FAA Form 3120-28 Parts A&B, FAA Form 3120-31 and their FAA identification card/badge.

2.Foreign air carrier pilots, FAA licensed dispatchers and other individuals may be accommodated with authorization by the FAA and company flight management authorities.

I.NATIONAL JUMPSEAT REGISTRY

SOURCE - Board 2000; AMENDED - Executive Board May 2001
The ALPA Jumpseat Committee shall produce and maintain a National Jumpseat Registry. The airlines listed will abide by ALPA Jumpseat Policy and shall have appointed Jumpseat Coordinators to work with the ALPA sponsored Industry Jumpseat Task Force. The Registry will be disseminated within ALPA to Master Executive Councils and their appointed Jumpseat Coordinators to use as they see fit.

 

[SkyNation]

Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA.

3.Within boarding priority, most airlines accommodate off-line jumpseat riders on a first-come, first-served basis. Due consideration should be given to union affiliation. Any problems that arise should be quickly referred to the Captain for resolution.

so according to this seemingly contrary language, 'due' consideration is given when determining boarding priority, and that's all. IOW, ALPA dude gets on ahead of unaffiliated dude if it comes down to it (all at the PICs discretion).