NO JS to anti-ALPA types

[SKYWRJGUY]

If Poor Pookie wanted a cheerleader, he should have cruised high schools; he asked a guy's opinion and got it. If he didn't want the j/s side of the story, should have never asked. For those who profess to deny the jumpseat for political reasons [while captain's discretion, I do not buy at all a safety of flight issue--it comes down to politics for denial (or performance)], perhaps you should question your own ethics and what it means to be professional. If this is the collective mindset (exclusion-inclusion for one, zero-sum for another or even a social identity crisis) that is preached, it should be no wonder why having a legally binding contract and being ALPA need not go hand in hand.

 

[N2264J]

Want my jumpseat? You'll answer my questions...If you're a VirginAmerica, jetBlue, or AirTran guy...I might even ask if you have an ALPA card. The answer isn't really important. The way you answer is.

Don't like it?

Waaaaah!

Here's a germane passage from policy:

Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA.

Isn't it ironic that the most fervent of ALPA sycophants have no problem blowing off ALPA's own policy? And they probably honestly wonder why pilot groups aren't lining up to get in.

 

[Nevets]

so according to this seemingly contrary language, 'due' consideration is given when determining boarding priority, and that's all. IOW, ALPA dude gets on ahead of unaffiliated dude if it comes down to it (all at the PICs discretion).

I don't think they are contrary. It merely says not to use the jumpseat as means of "punishing, coercing or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals."

Now if two jumpseaters are in the same boarding priority and ask for it at the same time, "due consideration should be given to union affiliation." So if the captain decides to give the jumpseat to the ALPA pilot as opposed to the APA pilot, that does NOT mean he is "punishing, coercing or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals."

But if the ALPA Jumpseat policy language really bothers you that much, do something about it. That is how any ALPA policy is changed or created, by individuals caring enough to volunteer and make a difference.

 

[acaTerry]

I will pick and choose who rides up front and if you dont have the decency to better the profession, I dont want you around my cockpit.

I know that the jumpseat should not be used for political purposes but i am frustrated to these new pilots that only think about themselves.

The jumpseat agreement was provided by ALPA and fought by ALPA. If you dont support that, you are no longer allowed in my plane.

I think this pretty much sums it up. If you don't want unions, don't whine that union-attained benefits are not available to you.

 

[M-16A2]

dont ask the questions if you think you wont like the answers.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Here's a germane passage from policy:

Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA.

Isn't it ironic that the most fervent of ALPA sycophants have no problem blowing off ALPA's own policy? And they probably honestly wonder why pilot groups aren't lining up to get in.

Why am I not surprised you'd misinterpret my post?

I'll make this simple, so perhaps even you will understand it:

1. The FAR's supercede ALPA policy.
2. There is a critieria, beyond merely clearing CASS, to ride in the cockpit of an airliner.
3. Compliance with that criteria requires the PIC to ascertain if the "candidate" is, in fact, in compliance.
4. I do that by asking questions. That helps me determine if the jumpseater is,

• coherent and able to understand my instructions, and instructions from other crewmembers.
• impaired.
• in his/her "happy place", meaning they will not bring a toxic personality or attitude onboard my aircraft.

If my spidey sense tells me they're having a bad day, or have a distracting "chip" on their shoulder....they don't go.

 

[PCL_128]

I think this pretty much sums it up. If you don't want unions, don't whine that union-attained benefits are not available to you.

Exactly. I don't know why this is such a hard concept to understand for some people.

 

[N2264J]

Why am I not surprised you'd misinterpret my post?

I didn't misinterpret your meaning. You were making an ALPA card some kind of litmus test depending on "the way" they answer. The jumpseat is a professional courtesy according to ALPA. Whether or not your jumpseat candidate has an ALPA card or not is really none of your business. Extrapolating from the policy, you're out of line by even posing the question.

ALPA encourages all pilots to extend the use of their jumpseats to eligible cockpit crewmembers as a professional courtesy and as a resource to enhance the safety of flight. The Captain is, and shall always be, the final authority as to admission to the flight deck. Denial of jumpseat privileges as a means of punishing, coercing or retaliating against other pilot groups or individuals is not supported by ALPA.

ALPA is doomed to be a backwater organization as long as the elephants apply policy selectively just because they can. If it's policy, then it applies the same to everybody. That's what "policy" means.

 

[Nevets]

The jumpseat is a professional courtesy according to ALPA. Whether or not your jumpseat candidate has an ALPA card or not is really none of your business. According to policy, you're out of line by even posing the question.

Within boarding priority, most airlines accomodate off-line jumpseat riders on a first-come, first-served basis. Due consideration should be given to union affiliation. Any problems that arise should be quickly referred to the Captain for resolution.

 

[N2264J]

Within boarding priority, most airlines accomodate off-line jumpseat riders on a first-come, first-served basis. Due consideration should be given to union affiliation. Any problems that arise should be quickly referred to the Captain for resolution.

Multiple jumpseaters wasn't the issue. Here's what he said:

If you give the jumpseat to any carbon-based unit that clears CASS, I think you're doing profession a disservice.

You have an OBLIGATION (not my opinion, a fact) to ensure that anyone riding in the cockpit is not impaired, will follow the crew's instructions, and will not distract the crew.

Have you ever had a jumpseater that wasn't falling all over himself being polite and accomodating? They want to get to work. They want to get home. Really, who is this guy talking about?

Want my jumpseat? You'll answer my questions. I'm not gonna grill you on union, political, or religious issues...but I am gonna make sure your Cooperation switch is safety-wired ON. If you're a VirginAmerica, jetBlue, or AirTran guy...I might even ask if you have an ALPA card. The answer isn't really important. The way you answer is.

Don't like it?

Waaaaah!

 

[PCL_128]

Have you ever had a jumpseater that wasn't falling all over himself being polite and accomodating? They want to get to work. They want to get home. Really, who is this guy talking about?
[/i]

Are you kidding? These jumpseaters are all over the place. Just do a search of this board and you'll find all kinds of posts about rude and disrespectful jumpseaters. I've seen plenty of them, although the majority of jumpseaters are polite and respectful.

 

[Nevets]

Multiple jumpseaters wasn't the issue.

Just saying that giving due consideration to union affiliation is not out of line.

 

[dav8or]

I'm a Teamster does that mean I'm not welcome on a ALPA jumpseat? I don't give a sh!t who you are, Ive welcomed all on my JS. I drive to work but know in my past and maybe the future I will depend on the JS.

Have you ever stood in the jetway wondering if you will get on after watching 3 planes leave full? Has the Captain had to change the fuel burn, load or alternate to get you on?

I have been on both sides an am happy to to say that if that numbers work you are on regardless of union position, sex, race or religion.

 

[Nevets]

I'm a Teamster does that mean I'm not welcome on a ALPA jumpseat? I don't give a sh!t who you are, Ive welcomed all on my JS. I drive to work but know in my past and maybe the future I will depend on the JS.

Have you ever stood in the jetway wondering if you will get on after watching 3 planes leave full? Has the Captain had to change the fuel burn, load or alternate to get you on?

I have been on both sides an am happy to to say that if that numbers work you are on regardless of union position, sex, race or religion.

I'm just reiterating what ALPA Jumpseat Policy says. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[CFIT]

Take off the gloves, let's have an all out jumpseat battle!

And if you get left behind because of some percieved union position, call the Captain in for being impaired. Tell the FAA the plane was broken, report the fuel was above required!

I give it a month and jumpseating will be history.
Many will be penalized for this but a few of you will be so proud!

 

[PCL_128]

And if you get left behind because of some percieved union position, call the Captain in for being impaired. Tell the FAA the plane was broken, report the fuel was above required!

I'd love to see somebody actually try this. Jumpseating wouldn't cease to exist, but said jumpseater's career would.

 

[CFIT]

I'd love to see somebody actually try this. Jumpseating wouldn't cease to exist, but said jumpseater's career would.

I can see it happening once, some transcon heavy goes back to the gate for a piss test, and I think it's all over.

The left behind jumpseater says, "well he seemed a little odd, I thought he had been drinking, sorry".

What does he have to lose?

 

[PCL_128]

I can see it happening once, some transcon heavy goes back to the gate for a piss test, and I think it's all over.

You're ignoring the fact that many airlines already have jumpseat access guaranteed in their contracts. Let's say that your scenario happens on an NWA flight. Some pissed off NWA Captain denies a jumpseater, and said whiny crybaby jumpseater alleges that the Captain was drunk, requiring the plane to return to the gate for a drug test. What can NWA do? Absolutely nothing. The NWA MEC has negotiated jumpseating into their agreement, along with Captain's authority over it. No matter how many little piss-ant jumpseaters cause problems, the company can't take away jumpseating. You see, that's one of those fancy union things that you anti-union guys at Skywest wouldn't know about.

 

[CFIT]

Right up until the FAA gets tired of it and it dies.

Do you think this is really going to make things better?


And I do remember how Delta wouldn't allow Actual jumpseaters, for years, but we let them on anyway.

 

[PCL_128]

Right up until the FAA gets tired of it and it dies.

The FAA has nothing to do with it. Besides, we both know it's never going to happen. None of these anti-union weenies have the balls to actually pull something like this. If the dirty SCABs that have been denied jumpseats for decades haven't done it, then neither will the next group that's denied jumpseats. They know that they'll face far greater scrutiny for pulling this stunt than the Captain will. Personally, I would have loved for some jumpseater to pull it on me when I was a Captain. I'd have taken him to civil court for defamation of character, due to the whole event probably winding up on the news with my name and picture for the world to see with some headline like "drunk Captain required to return to gate." That lawsuit would be easy money.

Do you think this is really going to make things better?

No, I think having all air line pilots under the ALPA banner will make things better. I think pilots getting informed and taking an active roll in their careers and their profession will make things better. I think pilots getting over the crew-room anti-union bullsh&^ talk will make things better. In the mean time, I see no reason for anti-union pilots to receive benefits that were obtained and retained by union pilots who have actually done something to contribute to the overall profession.