NJA size

[jtf]

What percentage of the pilot salary is in the net cost per hour of flight on these airplanes? It is pitifully small.QUOTE]

$120K for a pilot who flies 500 hrs per year is $240/hr.

Toss in 50$ for fringe benefits and you get $360/hr.

Toss in two pilots making $120K base pay and you're at $720/hr.

I'd call that a bit more than a pitifully small percentage of the cost per flight hour for most corporate aircraft types.

That is about 10 percent of what the they pay per hour on the Excel. That is about 5 percent of what they pay per hour on the big G's. That is still quite a small percentage of what NJA customers pay. I hope the guys and gals here will be willing to do whatever is necessary to push the wages up. I don't know how much you think you are worth, but I know I'm worth a heck of a lot more than I'm making now and I'm willing to do what it takes to make it happen. If it isn't at NJA, it will be somewhere else.

 

[glasspilot]

I love how pilots overestimate their worth. Why are you stopping at $250K? Why not $35 Million. What we do has to be more valuable than a Baseball Pitcher or a Hockey Goalie. Those are games and lives are not on the line. How about an actor? They're just pretending! How could that be worth more than a professional pilot who gets people around safely?

Heck, Bill Gates just lined up some ones and zeros...hows that worth more than a pilot??? We should definitely make more than HIM!!

 

[glasspilot]

Should be a ? after your rant there big guy.

For the love of Mohammed.

Nope, exclamation marks trump question marks. I wrote exactly what I meant...big guy.


IKYNTLWSGAAPI

 

[jonjuan]

I do.

Good luck with that dream. Margins are shrinking, not growing.

 

[jonjuan]

Nope, exclamation marks trump question marks. I wrote exactly what I meant...big guy.


IKYNTLWSGAAPI

Yet another glowing endorsement of inner city public education.

 

[jonjuan]

I love how pilots overestimate their worth. Why are you stopping at $250K? Why not $35 Million. What we do has to be more valuable than a Baseball Pitcher or a Hockey Goalie. Those are games and lives are not on the line. How about an actor? They're just pretending! How could that be worth more than a professional pilot who gets people around safely?

Heck, Bill Gates just lined up some ones and zeros...hows that worth more than a pilot??? We should definitely make more than HIM!!

Someone's nervous at the stock price of his company. Market of $25MM? NJA could trade one used G-IV for your entire company.

 

[BentOver]

Someone's nervous at the stock price of his company. Market of $25MM? NJA could trade one used G-IV for your entire company.

giggle giggle:beer:

 

[glasspilot]

Yet another glowing endorsement of inner city public education.

Yeah, my education is the one that's lacking. At least my inner city public education wasn't "to shabby".

 

[KiddDynomite]

I have a feeling that most managers in aviation would like to tell their employees that they don't want them to stick around for more than five years and that pay must be low due to their business model. Fortunately, most pilots are not stupid enough to go along with that premise and understand the importance, responsibility, and liability of the work they do. You, apparently, are not one of them.

Well Let's see I'm not one of them. Hmmmm....... Let's try and real. There is a market cap on labor just as there is a market cap on services and goods. I want to hear an honest number for an FO position? First off we have a finite market. Second we have competition that are already way below us in price and just as safe. Third we have an aging fleet and the company is shrinking. Sorry but this is not a formula for massive pay increases. Do you not realize the times we are living in? By every definition we are in a depression not a recession and the number of clients out there for our service is also shrinking not growing. This has absolutely nothing to do with ability, responsibility or liability. How about the regionals? Last time I checked they fly pretty sophisticated equipment and make $hit! This has nothing to do with anything but the fact that you guys came to NJA a little too late and now you're stuck in the right seat and pissed about it. Not my fault your timing sucks. It's just the way it is.

 

[glasspilot]

Nice post KiddD. Couldn't have said it better.

 

[BentOver]

Well Let's see I'm not one of them. Hmmmm....... Let's try and real. There is a market cap on labor just as there is a market cap on services and goods. I want to hear an honest number for an FO position? First off we have a finite market. Second we have competition that are already way below us in price and just as safe. Third we have an aging fleet and the company is shrinking. Sorry but this is not a formula for massive pay increases. Do you not realize the times we are living in? By every definition we are in a depression not a recession and the number of clients out there for our service is also shrinking not growing. This has absolutely nothing to do with ability, responsibility or liability. How about the regionals? Last time I checked they fly pretty sophisticated equipment and make $hit! This has nothing to do with anything but the fact that you guys came to NJA a little too late and now you're stuck in the right seat and pissed about it. Not my fault your timing sucks. It's just the way it is.

In that case I advocate a Captain pay cut to help the fledgling company in this depression. I mean, the company IS shrinking and all. You might as well help out. Currently top captain pay far exceeds the usually 40% difference in PIC/SIC pay. I vote we rectify that with a PIC pay cut to match the standard.

I gave an honest number.. Atleast $120K for say a 10-15 yr SIC....

Glad you don't negotiate for us.....

 

[imacdog]

This has nothing to do with anything but the fact that you guys came to NJA a little too late and now you're stuck in the right seat and pissed about it. Not my fault your timing sucks. It's just the way it is.

Actually KidD, I'm furloughed. I am at another job flying and making comparable wages to what I was. I decided not to go to NJA before 2005 because I was unwilling to do that work for such pathetic wages. When one would have to take a pay cut to go there from a regional, that's just g-d awful.

However, the simple fact remains that no matter what economic pressures are facing the company, the job itself does not change, and the pilots are entitled to fair compensation for their responsibility and liability. It sounds like you'd be the first to sign a concessionary contract to help the company out. Really unfortunate. As I said though, most pilots aren't as dumb as you when it comes to their professional self-worth. A little surprising coming from a fellow NJA pilot, not so much from Glass.

 

[glasspilot]

A little surprising coming from a fellow NJA pilot, not so much from Glass.

What's that supposed to mean? You upset I said $35 million wages are unrealistic?

 

[imacdog]

No I'm just not surprised to hear you don't feel pilots are worth much.

 

[glasspilot]

I never said anything like that. I'm all for the $35 mil. Just don't think it's realistic. More is better.

 

[KiddDynomite]

So imac, I'm an idiot, really. Well let's see I flew the pledge and was nearly fired, I fought for what we have, did you? No, so take your attitude elsewhere. I personally voted no for '05 and IBB both. Why? because there was more to be had and divifing the pilot group was a crappy idea. Times have changed, NJA has changed. We are no longer expanding. I am not advocating concessions but I can sure tell you that you're not going to see the wages you're talking about. When every other fractional pays less, charges less for the same service you better start to worry. If you really want to know you guys are going to be sold down the river so we can keep what we have and the junior captains will probably be downgraded. Reality sucks but that's where we live. Did you ever fly for a regional? If you did then why do you think you're worth something now and not back then? You guys crack me up. There's more to the equation than just money. I hate to tell you but unless you have about 200 guys in front of you, you're never coming back. The model is done. It's broken and the clowns running the show aren't doing anything to change that. This model can only support so much, a true fair wage is what the 18 day schedule pays. That's the number the 7 and 7 should be. So you can throw all the darts you want, we live in reality join the rest us in it!

 

[BentOver]

So imac, I'm an idiot, really. Well let's see I flew the pledge and was nearly fired, I fought for what we have, did you? No, so take your attitude elsewhere. I personally voted no for '05 and IBB both. Why? because there was more to be had and divifing the pilot group was a crappy idea. Times have changed, NJA has changed. We are no longer expanding. I am not advocating concessions but I can sure tell you that you're not going to see the wages you're talking about. When every other fractional pays less, charges less for the same service you better start to worry. If you really want to know you guys are going to be sold down the river so we can keep what we have and the junior captains will probably be downgraded. Reality sucks but that's where we live. Did you ever fly for a regional? If you did then why do you think you're worth something now and not back then? You guys crack me up. There's more to the equation than just money. I hate to tell you but unless you have about 200 guys in front of you, you're never coming back. The model is done. It's broken and the clowns running the show aren't doing anything to change that. This model can only support so much, a true fair wage is what the 18 day schedule pays. That's the number the 7 and 7 should be. So you can throw all the darts you want, we live in reality join the rest us in it!

Officially off the deep end.... Anything this fool posts from now on has zero credibility....

BTW..If IBB had been voted down it would have been one of the all time worst votes of all time...The fact that you voted no just shows your lack of sound judgement.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

So imac, I'm an idiot, really. Well let's see I flew the pledge and was nearly fired, I fought for what we have, did you? No, so take your attitude elsewhere. I personally voted no for '05 and IBB both. Why? because there was more to be had and divifing the pilot group was a crappy idea. Times have changed, NJA has changed. We are no longer expanding. I am not advocating concessions but I can sure tell you that you're not going to see the wages you're talking about. When every other fractional pays less, charges less for the same service you better start to worry. If you really want to know you guys are going to be sold down the river so we can keep what we have and the junior captains will probably be downgraded. Reality sucks but that's where we live. Did you ever fly for a regional? If you did then why do you think you're worth something now and not back then? You guys crack me up. There's more to the equation than just money. I hate to tell you but unless you have about 200 guys in front of you, you're never coming back. The model is done. It's broken and the clowns running the show aren't doing anything to change that. This model can only support so much, a true fair wage is what the 18 day schedule pays. That's the number the 7 and 7 should be. So you can throw all the darts you want, we live in reality join the rest us in it!

I think we know who man's the 1 spot on NJ's prestigious 5% senority list.......errrr 15%! Thanks for the update Captain sir

 

[imacdog]

I never said anything like that. I'm all for the $35 mil. Just don't think it's realistic. More is better.

You quoted KidD's post and said he was spot on. KidD's post was full of references to pilots not being worth much. You don't really pay much attention to what you say, do you?

 

[imacdog]

So imac, I'm an idiot, really. Well let's see I flew the pledge and was nearly fired, I fought for what we have, did you? No, so take your attitude elsewhere. I personally voted no for '05 and IBB both. Why? because there was more to be had and divifing the pilot group was a crappy idea. Times have changed, NJA has changed. We are no longer expanding.

It all makes sense now, Kid. You're one of "those guys". Every company has 'em. You'll never put your opinions on the union board because you wouldn't want anyone to tie your ideas to your name.

I am not advocating concessions but I can sure tell you that you're not going to see the wages you're talking about.

Most interesting. Would you mind pointing me exactly to where I mentioned a wage number? Anywhere on this thread at all? What I have been arguing for here is that despite your beliefs, the job we do is worthy of pay consistent with a career position involving a high level of knowlege, ability, responsibility, and liability.