NJA size

[rajflyboy]

Yep, posting that career pilots at NJA deserve career wages sure makes us look bad.

Never mind with you. You are clueless.

 

[glasspilot]

Glass- I do -- but man you guys are relentless. The board acts like a pack of starving hyenas when someone throws them a "grammatical bone".

Ah, you're right. I don't know what it is but the to, too, and two thing is like nails on a chalk board with me. Maybe because that's one of the few grammar rules I actually know...

I'll try to work through it in the future.

 

[imacdog]

Never mind with you. You are clueless.

Got news for you Raj, lots of career position pilots make career position wages. It's not exactly thinking outside of the box.

 

[fischman]

Ah, you're right. I don't know what it is but the to, too, and two thing is like nails on a chalk board with me. Maybe because that's one of the few grammar rules I actually know...

I'll try to work through it in the future.

You LOOSER!!! <-------


BWAAAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[glasspilot]

That's not nice. Leave my promiscuity out of it!

 

[KiddDynomite]

All you disgruntled FO's crack me up. I want to know how many of you used to turn your noses up at us because you were "airline" pilots and above us seatbelt folders? Guys like Raj and myself laid our junk on the line to get a good contract and then you weenies decide to come over with nothing invested. Now you have the gall to complain that you need raises and career wages. Here's some food for thought; first NJA was never concieved to be a career, times changed and we made it one. Guess what times changed again and the money is no longer out there. This company is in shrink mode and EJM is growing. Do you guys think you're going to get more when the company can shift flying over there? We're going to be lucky to keep what we have. I for one will stand my ground and never take a concession but I can sure bet there won't be much of a raise if any. Get a grip and read the writing on the wall!

 

[BentOver]

We get it...your the best...

BTW, if I recall, the '05 contract was not that good. Unless you call selling your brothers down the river with basing and pay, a good contract... 1 and only 1 reason I never applied to NJA prior to '07...I didn't want to live in TEB,DAL,LAX,or CMH (or commute 2-5 hrs.) for $40K.... later on my situation changed where I could accept an interview pre IBB.

By the time any contract is to be negotiated the economy should/will be better than today. The only reason management would be unwilling to up FO pay is that they really don't want us here long term. And definitely don't want 8-10 yr. SIC's returning from furlough when they can hire new guys and train them for the same amount of $$.

But you can bet there are going to be 500+ SIC's who will be unwilling to vote for any contract that doesn't up the pay...

Once again, very glad you don't negotiate for us.. You almost sound like a management stooge. Why not just pick up a few extended days while your at it.

 

[G4dude]

We get it...your the best...

BTW, if I recall, the '05 contract was not that good. Unless you call selling your brothers down the river with basing and pay, a good contract... 1 and only 1 reason I never applied to NJA prior to '07...I didn't want to live in TEB,DAL,LAX,or CMH (or commute 2-5 hrs.) for $40K.... later on my situation changed where I could accept an interview pre IBB.

By the time any contract is to be negotiated the economy should/will be better than today. The only reason management would be unwilling to up FO pay is that they really don't want us here long term. And definitely don't want 8-10 yr. SIC's returning from furlough when they can hire new guys and train them for the same amount of $$.

But you can bet there are going to be 500+ SIC's who will be unwilling to vote for any contract that doesn't up the pay...

Once again, very glad you don't negotiate for us.. You almost sound like a management stooge. Why not just pick up a few extended days while your at it.

I think compensation is about as high as it will ever get. Any higher, and competitors will be able to staff with equally qualified pilots at dramatically lower compensation levels, rendering NJA uncompetitive in the marketplace. Like Delta and Airtran.

 

[gunfyter]

Not if YIP Pilot's pilot shortage pans out! :beer:

 

[BentOver]

I think compensation is about as high as it will ever get. Any higher, and competitors will be able to staff with equally qualified pilots at dramatically lower compensation levels, rendering NJA uncompetitive in the marketplace. Like Delta and Airtran.

I semi-agree... I don't see any large pay increases in the future. Maybe someday later on when this down period is a really distant memory.

But I can see atleast a COLA increase after year 10 for SIC's. That's not too much to ask for.

 

[jtf]

My vote is to STMFD and start over if this is as good as it gets. I'll do my part to secure a better contact since I like the job and prefer to stay, but the status quo or minuscule improvement won't cut it. I seem to remember NJA raising the bar before so if we aren't going to lead, nobody is going to go up. Are you saying you were willing to fight before, but now that you are reasonably comfortable, your satisfied? I hope you will fight again.

 

[KiddDynomite]

I voted no in 05 specifically because of the Basing scenario and I knew there was 20% more to be had so you can save your rant Bent. Do you honestly believe the economy is going to turn around in three to five years? If you do you better start getting informed. Our country has had three years of economic decline, that's not a recession that's a depression by definiton and we have people protesting in the streets. NJA is in shrink mode while EJM is being expanded. There are now only four major airlines, Delta, United, American and UsAir. Airtran doesn't really count anymore because Southwest has sucked them up. The remainders are JetBlue, Spirit, Allegiant and Alaska. Those and the frieght carriers are your choices. Not a pretty picture and with the dwindling number of carries and route consolidation from the said mergers the pilot shortage is not going to be what is projected. We all know the shortage is a myth, it's been said for thirty years and never happened. The NJA management knows this and will use it. They're not stupid and they will also use EJM against us. You better think hard and fast about where things are heading. The reality is grim, get over it and face it. We are in for a fight to keep what we have. If you think giant raises are in order think again. Sure you can have them but at what cost? Your medical benefits or 401K. There's more to it than just cash. Personally 18 day pay for all with a 7 and 7 schedule. You want more money then make the place efficient. That's the only way. These guys are going to play hardball, be ready.

 

[G4dude]

My vote is to STMFD and start over if this is as good as it gets. I'll do my part to secure a better contact since I like the job and prefer to stay, but the status quo or minuscule improvement won't cut it. I seem to remember NJA raising the bar before so if we aren't going to lead, nobody is going to go up. Are you saying you were willing to fight before, but now that you are reasonably comfortable, your satisfied? I hope you will fight again.

I think you will have a lot of pushback from your peers at NJA. A LOT.

 

[G4dude]

Not if YIP Pilot's pilot shortage pans out! :beer:

Amen, Brother. "You just heard a prayer. Where I come from, when you hear a prayer, you say Amen!" -Lawrence Garfield in Other People's Money. The pilot shortage would be a very good thing, my fellow aviators!

 

[imacdog]

I think compensation is about as high as it will ever get. Any higher, and competitors will be able to staff with equally qualified pilots at dramatically lower compensation levels, rendering NJA uncompetitive in the marketplace. Like Delta and Airtran.

Historically the compensation at the other large fracs has followed the NJA pilot payraises fairly closely.

 

[jtf]

Kid D, do you believe 18 day pay for 7&7 is realistic? I think that would be reasonable, but that would be a 20 percent raise. I'd probably accept that unless they try to take it out of other places.

 

[CA1900]

Kid D, do you believe 18 day pay for 7&7 is realistic? I think that would be reasonable, but that would be a 20 percent raise. I'd probably accept that unless they try to take it out of other places.

I certainly see it as realistic (as a minimum). It's an 18% raise, more than half of which has already been eaten up in inflation since the contract was signed in 2007.

 

[gunfyter]

I certainly see it as realistic (as a minimum). It's an 18% raise, more than half of which has already been eaten up in inflation since the contract was signed in 2007.

This is true ... and we have 5 more years of inflation till 2016.

 

[G4dude]

Historically the compensation at the other large fracs has followed the NJA pilot payraises fairly closely.

True, but now that pilot pay is in the reasonable range, I don't think our competitors will follow our lead. And they will still be able to staff with good pilots. In this scenario, our competitors will have an advantage in operating cost, with no pilot proficiency disadvantage. Not good for NJA. To me, the most chilling words I can read about my employer is "industry leading contract." As the survivor of 11 layoffs, I am worried long term about NJA.

 

[imacdog]

Fantastic, looking forward to you voluntarily taking a pay cut to help the company out.