NJA size

[brokeflyer]

they will lower their hiring minimums.

maybe even call embry riddle, that will really wreck everything. imagine some 1200 hr riddle grad going into aspen?

 

[jonjuan]

they will lower their hiring minimums.

maybe even call embry riddle, that will really wreck everything. imagine some 1200 hr riddle grad going into aspen?

Or even worse, some retired 747 CA.

 

[wacoflyr]

they will lower their hiring minimums.

maybe even call embry riddle, that will really wreck everything. imagine some 1200 hr riddle grad going into aspen?

It is my understanding that your basic embry riddle grad has something like 300 hrs, maybe 500, but certainly not 1200. However, the banks have finally figured out that lending north of $100,000 to somebody who's going to start at about $20,000 a year is not good business. I doubt that embry riddle is seeing very many domestic student starts these days, However, if some kid is dumb enough to sign up for that deal you would have to question his judgement, anyway.

 

[OPECJet]

There would still be regional FO's willing to come...Too many pilots and not enough Legacy jobs... Plus the SIC pay at NJA is quite a bit better than both PIC/SIC regional pay. Plus benefits... No matter how it shakes down, NJa is still better than a regional.

NJA wouldn't be getting the thousands of resumes, but I bet they'd get enough to fill a few hundred spots. Personally for my own sake I hope many many leave NJA.....

But I definitely agree that the last time they hired they really screwed the pooch. I had many friends saying WTF is wrong with their hiring department!!

So right on so many levels.

NJA will also get plenty of resumes from guys tired of the majors to go along with the guys sick of the regionals, as well as guys who lost corporate jobs. The higher payscale and good QOL will be an insulator for NJA against this pilot shortage ya'll keep talking about.

With the young, captain heavy seniority list, I could see the company start making a play to change the FO pay, but not the way most of you think they will.

 

[jetlag7]

With the young, captain heavy seniority list, I could see the company start making a play to change the FO pay, but not the way most of you think they will.

Call me a pessimist, but I'm awfully skeptical we'll see any adjustments to FO pay.

For the company, it's too much of an economic windfall to maintain the "B-scale" (FO salaries). For the Pilots, the majority of union voters still on property are already enjoying life on the Captain scales... why on earth would they burn negotiating capital on such a small group? (I think there are less than 500 of us remaining)

 

[BentOver]

Call me a pessimist, but I'm awfully skeptical we'll see any adjustments to FO pay.

For the company, it's too much of an economic windfall to maintain the "B-scale" (FO salaries). For the Pilots, the majority of union voters still on property are already enjoying life on the Captain scales... why on earth would they burn negotiating capital on such a small group? (I think there are less than 500 of us remaining)

Agree!

With the current CBA extendable to 2016, and the fact that it is apparent the Union will not give in to any type of concession. I think the company will have no incentive to open up negotiations early.... Where's the upside for the company?

Most senior SIC's are somewhere around 2005 hires... I predict they will top out on the scale in 2015, then have to endure that pay until a TA is ratified... Could be well beyond 2016, depending on the state of the economy and how long the company wants to stretch out negotiations...

In fact every SIC on property and furloughed will quickly be on 10 year pay before anything gets increased......Once again shortsightedness is gonna screw SIC's...(Oh NJA couldn't possibly have 10 year SIC's, they'll be upgraded in 2 years! Lets cap the pay at 10...works well for the regionals!!)

SIC's on the 7/7 make maybe around $80K at the 10 year mark (rough estimate, I'm not gonna look it up). I think SIC's will see that they can be making more than that at a legacy and most LCC's in maybe 3 years. And have a much better chance to make more with upgrades etc... That will drive some attrition. Just a matter of the hiring demand being great enough to make a difference to the NJA seniority list.

 

[OPECJet]

Call me a pessimist, but I'm awfully skeptical we'll see any adjustments to FO pay.

For the company, it's too much of an economic windfall to maintain the "B-scale" (FO salaries). For the Pilots, the majority of union voters still on property are already enjoying life on the Captain scales... why on earth would they burn negotiating capital on such a small group? (I think there are less than 500 of us remaining)

I think we're saying something similar. No way NJA will want 10 year FOs on the seniority list. If the contract isn't extended I think they'll low ball the FO rates and bump the captains just a little bit. I know there will be some push to get FOs a raise, but I don't see it happening without the pilot group giving up something BIG in return.

 

[Pervis]

It is highly unlikely the contract will be extended. They have to prove we are doing 85% of the international flying first, by next year.

Secondly, the last two contracts concentrated on the beginning salaries, while the last three CBAs did little for the senior pilots. There's a good possibility that's where the emphasis will go. I hope not.

I keep seeing comments about the upgrade "promise". Anyone who's been around this industry for any length of time knows how unrealistic "promises" are. Even when in writing, any such thing can be worthless. That didn't work out so well for for companies like Eastern, Pan Am, etc.

One thing is certain. We have no idea where the salary emphasis will go, or any other issue at this point. Playing our cards before we're even in the game is foolish. I would like to see a bump for all, and the addition of COLA on top of longevity increases. Include raising the cap for FOs due to the reality upgrades may take quite some time. That's a more ballanced approach that will avoid alienating any one group-for a change.

 

[ozpilot]

It is highly unlikely the contract will be extended. They have to prove we are doing 85% of the international flying first, by next year.

Since NJI is now integrated with NJA, is this not happening already?

 

[Pervis]

Since NJI is now integrated with NJA, is this not happening already?

NJE contributes to US owner trips quite a bit. Not sure the numbers, but I would be really surprised if it were less than 15%. It only makes sense flying a revenue trip back to Europe after flying one of their owners to the states. And many of those are most likely US owners.

 

[rajflyboy]

Who is going to replace the 10 year FOs? I would be willing to bet that most of the furloughed guys will find other places and not come back. The pool of RJ FOs is not going to come over due to the eternal upgrade picture and the prospect of a job at a major? Add into the mix the bad experience many people had with the interview process last time we hired and you can see why they want to keep those 10 year FOs. I think if FOs start leaving in mass, Bridgeway could be in a tight spot quick.

Bingo !

 

[DAS at 10/250]

There's an ass for every seat fellas.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[wacoflyr]

There's an ass for every seat fellas.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

This has almost always been true. It is true now, and it will probably be true in the future. We all just want so badly for it not to be true. What a great day that would be!

 

[fischman]

Since NJI is now integrated with NJA, is this not happening already?

Hahaha!!! That's funny.

 

[BentOver]

It is highly unlikely the contract will be extended. They have to prove we are doing 85% of the international flying first, by next year.

Secondly, the last two contracts concentrated on the beginning salaries, while the last three CBAs did little for the senior pilots. There's a good possibility that's where the emphasis will go. I hope not.

I keep seeing comments about the upgrade "promise". Anyone who's been around this industry for any length of time knows how unrealistic "promises" are. Even when in writing, any such thing can be worthless. That didn't work out so well for for companies like Eastern, Pan Am, etc.

One thing is certain. We have no idea where the salary emphasis will go, or any other issue at this point. Playing our cards before we're even in the game is foolish. I would like to see a bump for all, and the addition of COLA on top of longevity increases. Include raising the cap for FOs due to the reality upgrades may take quite some time. That's a more ballanced approach that will avoid alienating any one group-for a change.

So if the contract cannot be extended past 2012 due to the international flying.....then NJASAP can expect to go into negotiations next year? That's worse than I thought.. Trying to gain improvements during a rough time WITH furloughs...... That would be almost as bad as NOT passing IBB and then trying to negotiate during 2010 as some Captains wanted....

I never came to NJA expecting the promise of a quick upgrade (not my first, second, or third paper route) But I do thin k it was very short sighted to have the SIC pay scale stop completely at year 10.. Even a COLA increase beyond that would have been better.