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I'd let them get me current and buy me another type. After that, we'll see ya later.....
 
CE750Driver said:
What is the average percentage difference from Captain to FO at the majors? What is it at NJA?

Just askin.......
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Good thinking. 60-65% The problem is that the captain pay is watered down, thus driving the FO pay down. FO pay tops out at year 10 with zero COLA. The FO's that are left will all be at that mark in two/three years.

Can you make a living as a FO at NJA? You bet you can. Is 10+ years in the right seat of a Cessna or Beechjet a career stopper? Absolutely.
 
When we extend the CBA ... maybe they will throw in an LOA that after you top out the FO scale at 10 years ... everyone moves over to the Captains pay scale? Comes with the 10 year wings...

Makes sense ... You are on year 11 but no appropriate pay on our scale ... you default to the only other option.
 
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That would be great. That would also shock the heck out of me. This management team is all about saving money and that would definitely cost. I would rate it more likely that they look for more ways of downgrading current captains. We have already had 2 SICs leave for AirAsia and my guess is we start to see a lot more bailing for better opportunities in the near future. I know I am looking far and wide. I really prefer this job, but the companies latest forecast through 2021 most likely would still have me in the right seat and while I would gladly stay for captain pay, I don't see the union using much negotiating capital to get a few hundred SICs captain pay. I'm sure the union will get some improvement for SICs eventually, but most likely it will just be scales that go as far as the captains scales for years of service. By the time even that is negotiated I'd probably be instantly at the top of those rates and stuck there for a while too. I hope I'm wrong and you are right, Gunfyter. That would make my career prospects vastly better.
 
gunfyter said:
When we extend the CBA ... maybe they will throw in an LOA that after you top out the FO scale at 10 years ... everyone moves over to the Captains pay scale? Comes with the 10 year wings...

Makes sense ... You are on year 11 but no appropriate pay on our scale ... you default to the only other option.
Click to expand...

I bet NJA and the Union will do something like what you are suggesting, making the decision to stay at NetJets much more palatable. I would stay anyway, if I were an FO here. I think. The airlines are so unstable historically, they just don't seem a good bet compared to NetJets.
 
G4dude said:
I bet NJA and the Union will do something like what you are suggesting, making the decision to stay at NetJets much more palatable. I would stay anyway, if I were an FO here. I think. The airlines are so unstable historically, they just don't seem a good bet compared to NetJets.
Click to expand...

With all respect, how can you say you would stay anyway if you were an FO? You are a Captain on the largest airplane NJ currently flies, that also happens to have trips to the most exotic locations and you have an F/A to take care of the cabin and the owners (not to say that the pilots don't, but your job on an attended airplane is different than a non-attended airplane), so I'm sure you can see how someone would think its pretty bold and arrogant to say what you would do if you were making 25% less. Your NJ experience is likely very different than someone who was hired in 2007/8. I am furloughed and loved my job at NJ, but I don't know if I can afford to sit in the right seat of a non-APU small jet 10 years. It would be great if they just upgraded FO pay to Captain rates after 10 years, but its not gonna happen. What incentive would NJ have to raise our pay by so much when they can just give 3% or COLA until we upgrade?
 
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Heck, even if they put us at the bottom of the Captain's payscales in year 11 (an 11-year FO is paid year 1 Captain wages) that might slow the exodus a bit...

Sent from my EVO 4G using Tapatalk Pro for Android
 
Since I first got hired I thought about having everyone on a Captain scale and all be 4 stripers....


There would be no real difference than now when two PIC's are paired together.... Adjust all the payscales accordingly, and maybe make everyone be an SIC for a year (or two even) I know after the first year I felt very comfortable with the operation... (and remember they had new hires go straight to captain back in the day).....

We would all have acceptable career expectations... And the schedulers would have a far greater ability to cover flights having unlimited crew pairing ability....
 
They could also make the airplanes out of chocolate. That way if you crash in a remote location you have food to eat...chocolate.

I think my idea will happen before yours.
 
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glasspilot said:
They could also make the airplanes out of chocolate. That way if you crash in a remote location you have food to eat...chocolate.

I think my idea will happen before yours.
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Yeah, but the chocolate would melt in a post crash fire.

You're right about the last statement though....
 
Jack Campbell said:
With all respect, how can you say you would stay anyway if you were an FO? You are a Captain on the largest airplane NJ currently flies, that also happens to have trips to the most exotic locations and you have an F/A to take care of the cabin and the owners (not to say that the pilots don't, but your job on an attended airplane is different than a non-attended airplane), so I'm sure you can see how someone would think its pretty bold and arrogant to say what you would do if you were making 25% less. Your NJ experience is likely very different than someone who was hired in 2007/8. I am furloughed and loved my job at NJ, but I don't know if I can afford to sit in the right seat of a non-APU small jet 10 years. It would be great if they just upgraded FO pay to Captain rates after 10 years, but its not gonna happen. What incentive would NJ have to raise our pay by so much when they can just give 3% or COLA until we upgrade?
Click to expand...

I am just worried about the stability of the airlines, with the world now entering a recession. What you are saying is true, but the airline alternative, I believe, is too risky. By the way, and no offense taken, but I am not a spoiled unrealistic pilot who never had to struggle. I had a HORRIBLE career until shortly before I arrived at NJI. For me, NetJets was and is nothing short of a life saver.
 
Jack Campbell said:
With all respect, how can you say you would stay anyway if you were an FO? You are a Captain on the largest airplane NJ currently flies, that also happens to have trips to the most exotic locations and you have an F/A to take care of the cabin and the owners (not to say that the pilots don't, but your job on an attended airplane is different than a non-attended airplane), so I'm sure you can see how someone would think its pretty bold and arrogant to say what you would do if you were making 25% less. Your NJ experience is likely very different than someone who was hired in 2007/8. I am furloughed and loved my job at NJ, but I don't know if I can afford to sit in the right seat of a non-APU small jet 10 years. It would be great if they just upgraded FO pay to Captain rates after 10 years, but its not gonna happen. What incentive would NJ have to raise our pay by so much when they can just give 3% or COLA until we upgrade?
Click to expand...

I actually think NJA will offer to increase FO pay to nearly captain levels, similar to the airlines. Otherwise, there will be massive attrition of FOs to AA, SW, etc.
 
G4dude said:
I actually think NJA will offer to increase FO pay to nearly captain levels, similar to the airlines. Otherwise, there will be massive attrition of FOs to AA, SW, etc.
Click to expand...
What airline has done that?
 
They haven't.

What he may be referring to is that the majors have many a/c types from relatively small (MD-88, etc) to very large. Each has it's own pay scale. FO pay generally hovers around 60-70% of Capt so you can find, for example, 777 FOs who make more than some of the low end Capts. And international carries more prestege (not to mention working fewer days and other perks) than in and out of the hub 5-6 legs a day.

So you find many who could hold Capt who chose to remain FOs.

Helm
 
G4dude said:
I actually think NJA will offer to increase FO pay to nearly captain levels, similar to the airlines. Otherwise, there will be massive attrition of FOs to AA, SW, etc.
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I think something like that is possible.

There is no need to adjust PIC pay as they can simply extend the CBA till 2016. But if attrition of SICs becomes an issue, an LOA to adjust that pay ... maybe extend beyond year 10 ... something to make it not worth it to move to another carrier.

Of course if the economy stays bad ... they may like attrition.
 
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Why would NJA want to keep 10 year FOs on the property?
 

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