NJA Downgrades

[DAS at 10/250]

Oh, wait. Should I have quoted a source?

Billy Jean, Chief Caterer at NJA CMH (ext. 495), told Nancy in scheduling, who told Bill in MX, who told Ted in dispatch, who told me that the punch bowl was empty.

I'll need to confirm with Dave in security first though.

 

[G200_PILOT]

99, that was exactly my point. Nobody below Bill Olsen would know one way or the other. Your management friend was at what level? I'm not shooting the messenger. I'm calling BS on the numbers you were given I could care less who said it. The furlough number could be correct but I can't see the downgrades being that high... if any.

 

[jtf]

When the other fracs downgraded and laid off due to the economy, was there an increase in broken planes and f calls leading to increased sell offs? Remember, mgmt is there to cut costs in any way shape or form.[/QUOTE]

Everyone understands that management must cut costs. I never heard about increases at other fractionals. I have heard of slight increases at NJA since the furlough, but not out of frustration or anger, just due to working harder and being truly fatigued more often. I'm not saying I don't believe another round of furloughs won't happen or that some downgrades may happen, but without a double dip those numbers (275 and 410) are not needed and would cause labor trouble. Nobody was happy that the last round of furloughs happened, but there isn't really labor trouble now because the pilots understand they were necessary. A modest cut may not bring problems, but massive downgrades would be downgrading the pilots who fought for the '05 contract and know every last place an airplane may have a problem on a preflight.

 

[CRJFlyer]

Based on past experience I'd say that any rumor that wasn't just pulled out of the air, usually has some sort of substance to it... I remember all those 'senior" guys saying.."eh don't worry they can't possibly furlough because of xyz" they made it sound like they really knew what they were talking about...Hmmm, they were a bit off the mark wouldn't ya'all say..


Now there are guys saying, they can't downgrade/furlough because of xyz.... Same sh.it different year. If there is a will there is a way. Management usually holds most of the cards and somehow usually gets what they want/need.

I def. hope 99 is wrong, but won't be bit suprised if his numbers prove right.

 

[CALRepublic]

I don't know wether to get pissed at 99 (for freaking out 275 people ) or say "THANKS for the heads up"....

Still, I bet the furlough-number changes about 20 more times. it'd be as low as 50 and go as high 900..... this is what pilots do, and there is nothing anybody can do to stop it. NOTHING .....

 

[G200_PILOT]

OK, I was bored tonight so I looked a little further into this 410 number. Here's how it breaks down...

I looked at the 410 junior PICs including NJI's G-IV captains. (Yes, I went through them one by one)

If the company downgrades 410 pilots tomorrow, the following fleets will lose this many captains:

BE-400: 35
Ultra: 68
Encore: 40
Encore +: 39
XL: 99
Sov'n: 31
Cit X: 12
G200: 5
G-IV: 82

That's the breakdown of it. As you can see, you'd have to put all of these fleets into permanent disposal in order to downgrade PICs from the individual fleet. The first thing that stands out is the G200. We've been hearing from just about every department that the G200 is the most popular airframe when it comes to owner satisfaction. I also don't see them getting rid of the 680. That's too popular of an airplane as well. They have plans to get two more in 2011. Could that have changed? Absolutely, but I would highly doubt it. The second thing that sticks out is that 82 G-IV captains would be affected. How many do they have total? How many airframes do they have?

Like I said, I was bored tonight. Wife working late so I wanted to put this BS into a little better perspective. Yes it takes time, but I would urge anyone who wishes to start these types rumors to do the homework first before coming on here and shooting from the hip.

410? HIGHLY UNLIKELY!

 

[gunfyter]

I don't think they have to downgrade in the G-IV. Not prt of the current seniority list as covered by the CBA....

maybe I am wrong?

 

[rajflyboy]

When the news isn't being reported through the proper "Pilot Side" channels then what the hell do you people think will happen??

It will get reported in other places such as "Flight Info".

 

[fly4funcrj]

The g200 is the most popular amongst owners because they are always being upgraded to the falcon.

 

[G200_PILOT]

The g200 is the most popular amongst owners because they are always being upgraded to the falcon.

You're close, it's the most popular because all the owners who we fly in it are BE-400 owners. What's not to love coming from that airplane?

 

[johnsonrod]

I would be happy too if I were bumped up from a Beechjunk to a G2ugly (that's what a friend on the Sovereign calls it).

Someone mentioned (perhaps erroneously) that the CJ4 would be considered as part of a possible fleet mix in the future (who knows if that is realistic). From what I have heard that CJ4 is pretty capable - perhaps that would be more likely now that Santulli is gone... Not sure if there would be delivery slots available though.

 

[rajflyboy]

I would be happy too if I were bumped up from a Beechjunk to a G2ugly (that's what a friend on the Sovereign calls it).

Someone mentioned (perhaps erroneously) that the CJ4 would be considered as part of a possible fleet mix in the future (who knows if that is realistic). From what I have heard that CJ4 is pretty capable - perhaps that would be more likely now that Santulli is gone... Not sure if there would be delivery slots available though.

CJ4 is rinky dink like the rest of the small citations. Bring on the Bombardier products!!

Lets.. see... Fly the beachjet in the states or Fly a Gulfstream to India, Israel and any of a bunch of other screwed up places >> I take the Beachjet a million times over.

 

[jonjuan]

Lets.. see... Fly the beachjet in the states or Fly a Gulfstream to India, Israel and any of a bunch of other screwed up places >> I take the Beachjet a million times over.

He's not talking about a real Gulfstream. He's talking about the galaxy.

 

[johnsonrod]

He's not talking about a real Gulfstream. He's talking about the galaxy.

Exactly. G200 ===> G2Ugly

Thought you might have heard that one. It might be nice to fly and great for the pax but it sure is ugly on the ramp. Give me a CL300 any day....

 

[DUATS]

CJ4 is rinky dink like the rest of the small citations. Bring on the Bombardier products!!

.

So does that mean that B-H is going to buy Flexjet? Only way you can get the Learjet 85. Or the 300.

 

[jonjuan]

So does that mean that B-H is going to buy Flexjet? Only way you can get the Learjet 85. Or the 300.

Really? Then how did XOjet get the 300? All it takes is moolah...

 

[rajflyboy]

So does that mean that B-H is going to buy Flexjet? Only way you can get the Learjet 85. Or the 300.

I doubt it but it sure would be nice.

You can't compare the small citations to any of the smaller learjets.

You can fill the Lear up with gas and People and go out of just about any airport in the country. You can't do that with the Cessna's. Lets not even talk about how rinky dink the interiors are on CJ4's.

 

[jtf]

Really? I was under the impression that the short field performance was much better for the Citations. I would say that just about everything else is better on the Lears, but I don't have the numbers in front of me to know the truth.

 

[cherry20's]

Really? Then how did XOjet get the 300? All it takes is moolah...

Money Talks, bullsh!t walks... NJ could get the 300 if they wanted it.

BTW, XOJET just got their 5th 300 today. Not trying to change the subject, just FYI.

 

[rajflyboy]

Really? I was under the impression that the short field performance was much better for the Citations. I would say that just about everything else is better on the Lears, but I don't have the numbers in front of me to know the truth.

Takeoff performance better with any of the small citations over the Learjets?

Please

Thats laughable.