NJA Downgrades

[brokeflyer]

Takeoff performance better with any of the small citations over the Learjets?

Please

Thats laughable.

i think he meant t/o and landing distance.

re-read his post

 

[rajflyboy]

Lear 60 is known for bad landing performance. The rest are good.

The Lear has 2 wheels on each main. Cessna still can't figure that out yet.

 

[Hawker dude]

Lear 60 is known for bad landing performance. The rest are good.

The Lear has 2 wheels on each main. Cessna still can't figure that out yet.

Maybe you just suck as a pilot and that is why you need the extra wheels. hhhmmmm...

Just remember in your flair to add a "scosh" of power before you touchdown.

 

[hammer2]

Maybe you just suck as a pilot and that is why you need the extra wheels. hhhmmmm...

Just remember in your flair to add a "scosh" of power before you touchdown.

I'll remember that on a 4000' runway.

 

[ghostrider64]

First a lesson to ALL that weren't here during the war years at NJA, NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER base your beliefs on information that is PUBLICLY RELEASED BY THE COMPANY. Spouting of sales numbers and projections then assuming they are real is a huge error.

Now to the OP numbers etc....

I would suggest management could put EVERY fleet into permanent disposal. I suggest that because ALL subsequent orders have ceased that there are more than enough airframes on the property today to cover our flying for at least 5 years without adding a single NEW plane. By that time new models will be available to REPLACE existing fleets.

Take for example the beloved G200, the new model is currently in development the G250, this is an obvious REPLACEMENT AIRCRAFT.

While I have no firm knowledge of staffing and or hard numbers, I do know the rosey OUTLOOK is just that, an outlook that might be true but certainly not NEAR TERM.

I for one am saving my pennies and expecting another storm. Prudence would be suggested in others doing the same for the NEAR TERM.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

A modest cut may not bring problems, but massive downgrades would be downgrading the pilots who fought for the '05 contract and know every last place an airplane may have a problem on a preflight.

That's awesome. Basically, you don't give a sh!t about post '05 hires, but fu<k with pre-'05'ers and we'll STFD.

Thanks "brother".

 

[jtf]

DAS, I am a post '05 hire so I care quite a bit. I waited until the '05 contract and then I came. I wish I would have came earlier, but at least I do still have a job here. I can't say that I trust that it will last. I learned all about having a B plan after two furloughs in '01 and I have a plan now should the egg shells I'm walking on crack.

Can you honestly tell me the company shouldn't have furloughed the pilots that they did? It sucks, but it was necessary and the majority of the pilots understand. Management f'ed up big time and way over hired. Something needed to be done and it was. Along with the furloughs, quite a bit of upper management (the decision makers that exasperated the problems or who were just dead wood anyway) have been replaced or just plain removed also. The new management now says the company is on the way to a profitable year so I have a feeling things will get pretty ugly if they decide to chop some more and downgrade a ton of pilots. My posts on this subject have not disputed that it might happen to a small degree, but to dispute the very high numbers that were quoted at the beginning of the thread. Can you tell me it is necessary for the company to downgrade 471 (or whatever the number was) pilots now? The majority of pilots would say it isn't necessary and would fight back. I don't think it would get to the point of STFD, but I don't think profits would be realized and management would know exactly why. Good luck moving on and if coming back is what you want, I hope it is sooner rather than later, brother.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

DAS, I am a post '05 hire so I care quite a bit. I waited until the '05 contract and then I came. I wish I would have came earlier, but at least I do still have a job here. I can't say that I trust that it will last. I learned all about having a B plan after two furloughs in '01 and I have a plan now should the egg shells I'm walking on crack.

Can you honestly tell me the company shouldn't have furloughed the pilots that they did? It sucks, but it was necessary and the majority of the pilots understand. Management f'ed up big time and way over hired. Something needed to be done and it was. Along with the furloughs, quite a bit of upper management (the decision makers that exasperated the problems or who were just dead wood anyway) have been replaced or just plain removed also. The new management now says the company is on the way to a profitable year so I have a feeling things will get pretty ugly if they decide to chop some more and downgrade a ton of pilots. My posts on this subject have not disputed that it might happen to a small degree, but to dispute the very high numbers that were quoted at the beginning of the thread. Can you tell me it is necessary for the company to downgrade 471 (or whatever the number was) pilots now? The majority of pilots would say it isn't necessary and would fight back. I don't think it would get to the point of STFD, but I don't think profits would be realized and management would know exactly why. Good luck moving on and if coming back is what you want, I hope it is sooner rather than later, brother.

Sorry, I shouldn't have assumed. I guess I just made an as@ out of myself.:0 I thought (my first mistake) that your next post would tell of pre-05 woes and how you couldn't get hired anywhere else and then had to come to NJA and wait three months for an upgrade.

As a "united" pilot group though our VM participation was pretty pitiful.

The only thing that the company screwed up on the furloughs was the fact that they should have done it a year earlier. And I think the company absolutely should downgrade if they're over the 60/40 split. Now, if the CBA will allow them is another thing.

I don't plan on coming back and I'm not bitter at the company or the pilot group. The company did what they had to do (finally) and the pilot group did what their seniority allowed them to. I didn't realize how much I really hated riding the airlines to work until I stopped doing it though.

Hopefully aviation is behind me now and I can just stick to coming here and jumping on people like you that I shouldn't have.:beer:

 

[imacdog]

First a lesson to ALL that weren't here during the war years at NJA, NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER base your beliefs on information that is PUBLICLY RELEASED BY THE COMPANY. Spouting of sales numbers and projections then assuming they are real is a huge error.

Thanks for the advice, I'm happy to hear the pre-'05 folks at NetJets are the only people in aviation to ever have management lie to them.

 

[CRJFlyer]

Thanks for the advice, I'm happy to hear the pre-'05 folks at NetJets are the only people in aviation to ever have management lie to them.

That's how alot of those guys feel. It's pretty sad really. I've never seen so many Cpts. of the heavy ultra/encore/sover./X who's shi.t didn't smell sweeter.

I could always tell who was former airline and came to NJA in the 2001-2005 period. They were laid back and knew what the deal was (read:they weren't arrogant pricks).

true story: had a 2-3 day overnight in Phoenix. The 2nd night, the Cpt. I was with, tells the desk guy (on the midnight shift) to tell the morning newspaper guy to not drop the paper down so hard by his door! Because it woke him up! I just had to walk away in shame for being associated with the idiot.

 

[FLYLOW22]

That's how alot of those guys feel. It's pretty sad really. I've never seen so many Cpts. of the heavy ultra/encore/sover./X who's shi.t didn't smell sweeter.

I could always tell who was former airline and came to NJA in the 2001-2005 period. They were laid back and knew what the deal was (read:they weren't arrogant pricks).

true story: had a 2-3 day overnight in Phoenix. The 2nd night, the Cpt. I was with, tells the desk guy (on the midnight shift) to tell the morning newspaper guy to not drop the paper down so hard by his door! Because it woke him up! I just had to walk away in shame for being associated with the idiot.

I bet you are a bad pilot.

 

[fischman]

I bet you are a bad pilot.

I'm not. I am awesome.

 

[CRJFlyer]

I bet you are a bad pilot.

Opinions vary

 

[FLYLOW22]

I'm not. I am awesome.

Any good pilot drinks Stag...

and uses VNAV.

 

[marqmarq]

I believe jtf was referring to runway lengths for takeoff and landing.... the straight wing citations can use shorter runways, especially in 135 situations...

 

[RP170]

Not sure if this was already posted in this thread but there is apparently a meeting scheduled on April 19 between the union and company discussing staffing. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. At least it isn't on a Friday.

 

[AZaviator]

Not sure if this was already posted in this thread but there is apparently a meeting scheduled on April 19 between the union and company discussing staffing. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. At least it isn't on a Friday.

We saw what happened the last time one of those meetings took place :erm:

 

[RP170]

We saw what happened the last time one of those meetings took place :erm:

Yep. This is so frustrating AZ. If both of us only would have taken those class dates at Allegiant in 07 huh? Shoulda woulda coulda. I'm beginning to fear that my career in aviation is now over due to going to the "last job you'll ever have" company known as NetJets. It was the last job we'll ever have alright, aka career suicide.

 

[grounded92]

Amen on the career suicide

Hello,

Just thought I would post a negative, frustrating post here. Has anybody else had a interviewer bash the NetJet "culture".

During a recent interview I asked if any other NJ guys had applied. The reply I got was- no, because most NJ guys are to lazy, or to good, to apply for most jobs. (not a direct quote, but as close as I can remember) No I didn't get the job, despite being exceptionally over-qualified.

I know NJ had a terrible reputation prior to the 2000s. However, I would have thought the rep would have improved since then, especially with the ibb and pilots participation in the voluntary measures. Maybe I was wrong.

Good luck all,

B

 

[brokeflyer]

well i doubt about the lazy part. NJ pilots are by far the most active in aviation. As far as the "too good" part?, that is true. they are the best in aviation and the reason they dont apply to other aviation jobs is because no other job can afford to pay for their superior skills.

 

[OPECJet]

I think a lot of us have been getting that, or something like it. For aviation jobs it's "you'll bail as soon as NetJets calls back". For non-aviation jobs, it's "you'll leave as soon as a pilot position comes open."

Then there's some of us that went to NJA with little / no turbine PIC time and don't meet the mins. My finances and family situation don't allow me, and I'm guessing most of us to start over at a regional. It actually cost me money to work at the regional I came from and the commute it required.

Yep, they were right. The last aviation job we'll ever have.

 

[ydoifly]

Its going to be very difficult for any ex NJA pilot to convince any flight dept. to hire them. Its like the aviation equivalent of herpes. Once you have it, its impossible to get rid of the stigma.

 

[gret]

well i doubt about the lazy part. NJ pilots are by far the most active in aviation. As far as the "too good" part?, that is true. they are the best in aviation and the reason they dont apply to other aviation jobs is because no other job can afford to pay for their superior skills.

I'm a little slow. You are saying this is jest, are you not?

 

[brokeflyer]

I'm a little slow. You are saying this is jest, are you not?

....

 

[NachoMamma]

During a recent interview I asked if any other NJ guys had applied. The reply I got was- no, because most NJ guys are to lazy, or to good, to apply for most jobs. (not a direct quote, but as close as I can remember) No I didn't get the job, despite being exceptionally over-qualified.

Something to keep in mind here is that the reasons for the NJ stigma, at least in corporate 91 circles, are not always legitimate. NJ is a bona fide threat to ANY part 91 flight department, no matter how secure they might think their jobs are. Add to that a recent (post 2007) wage scale that trumps NBAA wages on most (small) aircraft types, and you get a predisposition for animosity that will certainly be reflected in the hiring practices of these flight departments. In short, there's alot of fear and jealousy of NJ out there that will most certainly put a furloughee at a disadvantage in the Part 91 job hunt.

 

[rajflyboy]

I'm sure if a company wants a type rated and current pilot to fly their jet... they may take the NJ pilot over the guy that doesn't have the type and or is not current

Its about the $$$$$$$$

 

[FLYLOW22]

Its going to be very difficult for any ex NJA pilot to convince any flight dept. to hire them. Its like the aviation equivalent of herpes. Once you have it, its impossible to get rid of the stigma.

Actually, Having NetJets on my resume is just about as good as having US Airways on my resume...

oh yeah... herpes.

Got it...

 

[Outta Here]

First of all can the company downgrade? Sure but it is very difficult. Just becasue the comapny puts an aircraft into permanent disposal/ reduction doesnt mean it springs an automatic downgrade situation. It cant happen until they planes start to go away and it causes changes of aircraft for pilots. And with the economy these planes arent going anywhere fast. It has to start at the bottom and it SLOWLY works it way up because of the many different fleet types we have here and how the demographics are spread among the junior captains. The CBA verbagae is very cumbersome and not cut and dry like the airlines. I have mulled over the language very much since I am in the range it could happen to. If it does look where the most junior SIC is in a class 4 plane is and if there is one below you pay wise..... Well just keep that in mind...

 

[Praetorian]

Hello,

Just thought I would post a negative, frustrating post here. Has anybody else had a interviewer bash the NetJet "culture".

During a recent interview I asked if any other NJ guys had applied. The reply I got was- no, because most NJ guys are to lazy, or to good, to apply for most jobs. (not a direct quote, but as close as I can remember) No I didn't get the job, despite being exceptionally over-qualified.

I know NJ had a terrible reputation prior to the 2000s. However, I would have thought the rep would have improved since then, especially with the ibb and pilots participation in the voluntary measures. Maybe I was wrong.

Good luck all,

B

I think this is how this interviewer has conceptualized the fact that the NJ pilots are accustomed to working under a contract, with all that entails. He assumes (perhaps correctly) that they will be unwilling to "go the extra mile" and take his s**t along the way to get the job done at any cost, legal or not.

 

[CRJFlyer]

First of all can the company downgrade? Sure but it is very difficult. Just becasue the comapny puts an aircraft into permanent disposal/ reduction doesnt mean it springs an automatic downgrade situation. It cant happen until they planes start to go away and it causes changes of aircraft for pilots. And with the economy these planes arent going anywhere fast. It has to start at the bottom and it SLOWLY works it way up because of the many different fleet types we have here and how the demographics are spread among the junior captains. The CBA verbagae is very cumbersome and not cut and dry like the airlines. I have mulled over the language very much since I am in the range it could happen to. If it does look where the most junior SIC is in a class 4 plane is and if there is one below you pay wise..... Well just keep that in mind...

Basically what has been proven is the company holds the cards and can do pretty much what they want. Best of luck to holding your position. I just remember how many pilots (cpts.) were so sure of themselves that NJA couldn't possibly furlough. There's only a few people who know what's in the works and one of them has the initials DS and the rest AREN"T pilots.

Hope for the best,plan for the worst.