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NJA Downgrades

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I think a lot of us have been getting that, or something like it. For aviation jobs it's "you'll bail as soon as NetJets calls back". For non-aviation jobs, it's "you'll leave as soon as a pilot position comes open."

Then there's some of us that went to NJA with little / no turbine PIC time and don't meet the mins. My finances and family situation don't allow me, and I'm guessing most of us to start over at a regional. It actually cost me money to work at the regional I came from and the commute it required.

Yep, they were right. The last aviation job we'll ever have.
 
Its going to be very difficult for any ex NJA pilot to convince any flight dept. to hire them. Its like the aviation equivalent of herpes. Once you have it, its impossible to get rid of the stigma.
 
well i doubt about the lazy part. NJ pilots are by far the most active in aviation. As far as the "too good" part?, that is true. they are the best in aviation and the reason they dont apply to other aviation jobs is because no other job can afford to pay for their superior skills.

I'm a little slow. You are saying this is jest, are you not?
 
During a recent interview I asked if any other NJ guys had applied. The reply I got was- no, because most NJ guys are to lazy, or to good, to apply for most jobs. (not a direct quote, but as close as I can remember) No I didn't get the job, despite being exceptionally over-qualified.

Something to keep in mind here is that the reasons for the NJ stigma, at least in corporate 91 circles, are not always legitimate. NJ is a bona fide threat to ANY part 91 flight department, no matter how secure they might think their jobs are. Add to that a recent (post 2007) wage scale that trumps NBAA wages on most (small) aircraft types, and you get a predisposition for animosity that will certainly be reflected in the hiring practices of these flight departments. In short, there's alot of fear and jealousy of NJ out there that will most certainly put a furloughee at a disadvantage in the Part 91 job hunt.
 
I'm sure if a company wants a type rated and current pilot to fly their jet... they may take the NJ pilot over the guy that doesn't have the type and or is not current

Its about the $$$$$$$$
 
Its going to be very difficult for any ex NJA pilot to convince any flight dept. to hire them. Its like the aviation equivalent of herpes. Once you have it, its impossible to get rid of the stigma.

Actually, Having NetJets on my resume is just about as good as having US Airways on my resume...

oh yeah... herpes.

Got it...
 
First of all can the company downgrade? Sure but it is very difficult. Just becasue the comapny puts an aircraft into permanent disposal/ reduction doesnt mean it springs an automatic downgrade situation. It cant happen until they planes start to go away and it causes changes of aircraft for pilots. And with the economy these planes arent going anywhere fast. It has to start at the bottom and it SLOWLY works it way up because of the many different fleet types we have here and how the demographics are spread among the junior captains. The CBA verbagae is very cumbersome and not cut and dry like the airlines. I have mulled over the language very much since I am in the range it could happen to. If it does look where the most junior SIC is in a class 4 plane is and if there is one below you pay wise..... Well just keep that in mind...
 
Hello,

Just thought I would post a negative, frustrating post here. Has anybody else had a interviewer bash the NetJet "culture".

During a recent interview I asked if any other NJ guys had applied. The reply I got was- no, because most NJ guys are to lazy, or to good, to apply for most jobs. (not a direct quote, but as close as I can remember) No I didn't get the job, despite being exceptionally over-qualified.

I know NJ had a terrible reputation prior to the 2000s. However, I would have thought the rep would have improved since then, especially with the ibb and pilots participation in the voluntary measures. Maybe I was wrong.

Good luck all,

B

I think this is how this interviewer has conceptualized the fact that the NJ pilots are accustomed to working under a contract, with all that entails. He assumes (perhaps correctly) that they will be unwilling to "go the extra mile" and take his s**t along the way to get the job done at any cost, legal or not.
 
First of all can the company downgrade? Sure but it is very difficult. Just becasue the comapny puts an aircraft into permanent disposal/ reduction doesnt mean it springs an automatic downgrade situation. It cant happen until they planes start to go away and it causes changes of aircraft for pilots. And with the economy these planes arent going anywhere fast. It has to start at the bottom and it SLOWLY works it way up because of the many different fleet types we have here and how the demographics are spread among the junior captains. The CBA verbagae is very cumbersome and not cut and dry like the airlines. I have mulled over the language very much since I am in the range it could happen to. If it does look where the most junior SIC is in a class 4 plane is and if there is one below you pay wise..... Well just keep that in mind...

Basically what has been proven is the company holds the cards and can do pretty much what they want. Best of luck to holding your position. I just remember how many pilots (cpts.) were so sure of themselves that NJA couldn't possibly furlough. There's only a few people who know what's in the works and one of them has the initials DS and the rest AREN"T pilots.

Hope for the best,plan for the worst.
 
I just remember how many pilots (cpts.) were so sure of themselves that NJA couldn't possibly furlough.

You gotta remember the timing though... those comments were made while RTS was here. While RTS was here, they was a true statement.


RTS gone and DS in... new ball game. Nobody said no furloughs after DS came onboard. Nobody.
 
Flylow22 you are correct. While RTS was at the helm no one would have been furloughed. Everyone would have just been out of a job. Furlough implies that there is a job for you to come back to. If RTS had been allowed to stay, we would have shut our doors.
 
Flylow22 you are correct. While RTS was at the helm no one would have been furloughed. Everyone would have just been out of a job. Furlough implies that there is a job for you to come back to. If RTS had been allowed to stay, we would have shut our doors.

Do we really know that this is a fact??
 
Flylow22 you are correct. While RTS was at the helm no one would have been furloughed. Everyone would have just been out of a job. Furlough implies that there is a job for you to come back to. If RTS had been allowed to stay, we would have shut our doors.

Nobody is arguing that point either.
At least I am not.

I know that it seems RTS got a raw deal but anyone here more than a few years knows how he operated.

Never had the emphasis been on operations to make money... only sales.

We needed management that could enable this company to make money in all areas, not just sales.

The point I was trying to make is that no NJA Captain ever said there would never be furlough, just no furloughs with RTS here. Not because he cared but because it would make him look bad.
 
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I know that it seems RTS got a raw deal but anyone here more than a few years knows how he operated

Plenty of raw deals have gone around at NJA. RTS was not a recipient though.
 
You gotta remember the timing though... those comments were made while RTS was here. While RTS was here, they was a true statement.


RTS gone and DS in... new ball game. Nobody said no furloughs after DS came onboard. Nobody.

I agree with the fact that undr RTS furloughs were less likely (impossible? maybe, maybe not)


But the logic that many pilots (mostly Cpts.) used wasn't always the fact that RTS was at the helm.. People theorized about training costs, fleet counts, past recessions.. I agree that looking bad was one of the reasons also, but not the only theory..

My only point is to be fully prepared. We, the pilot group, have very litle insight into what realy will happen. We can speculate, look at numbers, read the contract all we want. Fact is management holds the cards at nearly every step of the way. And not just at NJA, all companies for the most part... They are more in tune with what they want to accomplish, and just let the union know about it along the way. The management runs the company. I had forgotten that at one point, but now fully realize that fact.
 
I agree we can only speculate. At this point WHO CARES about what RTS did or did not do. We are now paying the piper for those descisions made. We must now move forward and make sure we have complete compliance of the CBA. The new sheriff in town is going to show us where he wants this place headed and I am very cautiosly... Well let's just say cautious. When the new management took over this place was forever changed and will never go back to the way it was in 2007. We will see after April 19th.
 
Raj, I was never privy to the books. I can only go by what some higher up union officials mentioned. We were losing over a million dollars a day. No company can sustain those losses and continue to operate..

Either way, lets just hope that no further cuts are required and that we can recall our brothers and sisters sooner then later..
 
I'm an early 06 hire and ever since the 495ers left the property have had my ass handed to me by scheduling. Last tour I had a five leg day with 1345 duty before we threw in the towel. On the 800xph no less. Granted I'm just one guy but this is approaching summer 07 workload. I'm of the opinion that they have overcut.
 
Here's the deal on 4/19 from sources as reliable as they get without talking to Sokol himself. DS wants more furloughs. Scheduling and the union are telling him it's not possible without major changes for the worse in coverage and service. NJA is staffed appropriately according to the people who analyze such things, but he still wants more blood and thinks we can improve efficiency to cover a couple hundred more furloughs.

In my opinion, DS is probably a decent CEO in his industry but doesn't understand the service business very well. It's cool to keep US Airways passengers or Walmart customers delayed or waiting in line due to staffing, but NJA owners will not put up with that. They pay a premium price to have well rested, gold tie pilots and coverage if their plane breaks and they should continue to receive a premium product. I think we are at the bare minimum staffing levels to provide that service right now. Further cuts will reflect in a degradation of service.
 

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