NJA Downgrades

[FLYLOW22]

I just remember how many pilots (cpts.) were so sure of themselves that NJA couldn't possibly furlough.

You gotta remember the timing though... those comments were made while RTS was here. While RTS was here, they was a true statement.


RTS gone and DS in... new ball game. Nobody said no furloughs after DS came onboard. Nobody.

 

[fly4funcrj]

Flylow22 you are correct. While RTS was at the helm no one would have been furloughed. Everyone would have just been out of a job. Furlough implies that there is a job for you to come back to. If RTS had been allowed to stay, we would have shut our doors.

 

[rajflyboy]

Flylow22 you are correct. While RTS was at the helm no one would have been furloughed. Everyone would have just been out of a job. Furlough implies that there is a job for you to come back to. If RTS had been allowed to stay, we would have shut our doors.

Do we really know that this is a fact??

 

[FLYLOW22]

Flylow22 you are correct. While RTS was at the helm no one would have been furloughed. Everyone would have just been out of a job. Furlough implies that there is a job for you to come back to. If RTS had been allowed to stay, we would have shut our doors.

Nobody is arguing that point either.
At least I am not.

I know that it seems RTS got a raw deal but anyone here more than a few years knows how he operated.

Never had the emphasis been on operations to make money... only sales.

We needed management that could enable this company to make money in all areas, not just sales.

The point I was trying to make is that no NJA Captain ever said there would never be furlough, just no furloughs with RTS here. Not because he cared but because it would make him look bad.

 

[OPECJet]

I know that it seems RTS got a raw deal but anyone here more than a few years knows how he operated

Plenty of raw deals have gone around at NJA. RTS was not a recipient though.

 

[CRJFlyer]

You gotta remember the timing though... those comments were made while RTS was here. While RTS was here, they was a true statement.


RTS gone and DS in... new ball game. Nobody said no furloughs after DS came onboard. Nobody.

I agree with the fact that undr RTS furloughs were less likely (impossible? maybe, maybe not)


But the logic that many pilots (mostly Cpts.) used wasn't always the fact that RTS was at the helm.. People theorized about training costs, fleet counts, past recessions.. I agree that looking bad was one of the reasons also, but not the only theory..

My only point is to be fully prepared. We, the pilot group, have very litle insight into what realy will happen. We can speculate, look at numbers, read the contract all we want. Fact is management holds the cards at nearly every step of the way. And not just at NJA, all companies for the most part... They are more in tune with what they want to accomplish, and just let the union know about it along the way. The management runs the company. I had forgotten that at one point, but now fully realize that fact.

 

[Outta Here]

I agree we can only speculate. At this point WHO CARES about what RTS did or did not do. We are now paying the piper for those descisions made. We must now move forward and make sure we have complete compliance of the CBA. The new sheriff in town is going to show us where he wants this place headed and I am very cautiosly... Well let's just say cautious. When the new management took over this place was forever changed and will never go back to the way it was in 2007. We will see after April 19th.

 

[fly4funcrj]

Raj, I was never privy to the books. I can only go by what some higher up union officials mentioned. We were losing over a million dollars a day. No company can sustain those losses and continue to operate..

Either way, lets just hope that no further cuts are required and that we can recall our brothers and sisters sooner then later..

 

[Blueridgeflyer]

I'm an early 06 hire and ever since the 495ers left the property have had my ass handed to me by scheduling. Last tour I had a five leg day with 1345 duty before we threw in the towel. On the 800xph no less. Granted I'm just one guy but this is approaching summer 07 workload. I'm of the opinion that they have overcut.

 

[172driver]

Here's the deal on 4/19 from sources as reliable as they get without talking to Sokol himself. DS wants more furloughs. Scheduling and the union are telling him it's not possible without major changes for the worse in coverage and service. NJA is staffed appropriately according to the people who analyze such things, but he still wants more blood and thinks we can improve efficiency to cover a couple hundred more furloughs.

In my opinion, DS is probably a decent CEO in his industry but doesn't understand the service business very well. It's cool to keep US Airways passengers or Walmart customers delayed or waiting in line due to staffing, but NJA owners will not put up with that. They pay a premium price to have well rested, gold tie pilots and coverage if their plane breaks and they should continue to receive a premium product. I think we are at the bare minimum staffing levels to provide that service right now. Further cuts will reflect in a degradation of service.

 

[RNObased]

Here's the deal on 4/19 from sources as reliable as they get without talking to Sokol himself. DS wants more furloughs. Scheduling and the union are telling him it's not possible without major changes for the worse in coverage and service. NJA is staffed appropriately according to the people who analyze such things, but he still wants more blood and thinks we can improve efficiency to cover a couple hundred more furloughs.

In my opinion, DS is probably a decent CEO in his industry but doesn't understand the service business very well. It's cool to keep US Airways passengers or Walmart customers delayed or waiting in line due to staffing, but NJA owners will not put up with that. They pay a premium price to have well rested, gold tie pilots and coverage if their plane breaks and they should continue to receive a premium product. I think we are at the bare minimum staffing levels to provide that service right now. Further cuts will reflect in a degradation of service.

No it will be fine, because the owners will leave and the staffing levels will be correct.

 

[hopalong]

I'm an early 06 hire and ever since the 495ers left the property have had my ass handed to me by scheduling. Last tour I had a five leg day with 1345 duty before we threw in the towel. On the 800xph no less. Granted I'm just one guy but this is approaching summer 07 workload. I'm of the opinion that they have overcut.

AMEN BROTHER!!! I am in the X and BUSTING MY BUTT to the point of FATIGUING. They need to bring back our brothers and NOT CUT MORE!

 

[ultrarunner]

Not sure if this was already posted in this thread but there is apparently a meeting scheduled on April 19 between the union and company discussing staffing. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. At least it isn't on a Friday.

I'm thinking mgt isn't meeting with the union to tell them hiring is going to start at 100 per month.

Likely a required meeting via the CBA that mgt must first tell the union what the "number" is going to be....

What a bummer....

 

[rajflyboy]

Here's the deal on 4/19 from sources as reliable as they get without talking to Sokol himself. DS wants more furloughs. Scheduling and the union are telling him it's not possible without major changes for the worse in coverage and service. NJA is staffed appropriately according to the people who analyze such things, but he still wants more blood and thinks we can improve efficiency to cover a couple hundred more furloughs.

In my opinion, DS is probably a decent CEO in his industry but doesn't understand the service business very well. It's cool to keep US Airways passengers or Walmart customers delayed or waiting in line due to staffing, but NJA owners will not put up with that. They pay a premium price to have well rested, gold tie pilots and coverage if their plane breaks and they should continue to receive a premium product. I think we are at the bare minimum staffing levels to provide that service right now. Further cuts will reflect in a degradation of service.

Nice Post!

 

[RP170]

AMEN BROTHER!!! I am in the X and BUSTING MY BUTT to the point of FATIGUING. They need to bring back our brothers and NOT CUT MORE!

I hope you are fatiguing then. Sounds like that's the only way the company may get the point that the pilot group can't physiologically handle more pilot cuts. Guys need to step up and have some balls. Write up broken aircraft (which sounds like is not happening), fatigue when tired, don't accept extended days, etc.

If they want to play hard ball the pilot group needs to step up to the plate. From reading the 411 that came out today it sounds like the love fest that the union and company have been having might be on the rocks. It's about damn time.

 

[hopalong]

Isn't EVERYONE FATIGUING???? The workload is RIDICULOUS!!!!!

 

[rajflyboy]

Isn't EVERYONE FATIGUING???? The workload is RIDICULOUS!!!!!

F Bomb is way down but not for the reasons posted.

Its down because of another minor detail that was part of the 2007 IBB failure.

 

[fly4funcrj]

No everyone is not fatiguing. A lot of the captains at NJA are f'n wimps when it comes to fatigue. They are scared p#$ a$$es. Am I clear? Have flown with many a captains that talk a big game. When asked how many times they have fatigued in their 14+ years the answer is 0. Flew with a tool the other day who was all "I'm going to fatigue then!!!". When the fm told him he needed to tell the acp his attitude was "well, we'll just see how I feel at the hotel. ".. Of course I had to drop the f bomb while he enjoyed the extra show time at the hotel. He looked like the hero that could do 14/10's.. I looked like the moron who had to fatigue. It's about time the union has stopped suckling the companies' nuts and show some leadership.. then again voting is around the corner so I guess change has to take place..

Either way, guys need to stop flying fatigued and sick.. Take the time off and spend it with the family or enjoy the few extra hours at the hotel and lay by the pool.

Rant over..

 

[CRJFlyer]

NJA is becoming more of a joke with every day that passes...the more time that passes the more I hope not to have to come back....

Unless there is some major growth in the size of some of the pilots/union balls....

 

[jonjuan]

Now we know where the guaranteed profitability in 2010 will come from.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

No everyone is not fatiguing. A lot of the captains at NJA are f'n wimps when it comes to fatigue. They are scared p#$ a$$es. Am I clear? Have flown with many a captains that talk a big game. When asked how many times they have fatigued in their 14+ years the answer is 0. Flew with a tool the other day who was all "I'm going to fatigue then!!!". When the fm told him he needed to tell the acp his attitude was "well, we'll just see how I feel at the hotel. ".. Of course I had to drop the f bomb while he enjoyed the extra show time at the hotel. He looked like the hero that could do 14/10's.. I looked like the moron who had to fatigue. It's about time the union has stopped suckling the companies' nuts and show some leadership.. then again voting is around the corner so I guess change has to take place..

Either way, guys need to stop flying fatigued and sick.. Take the time off and spend it with the family or enjoy the few extra hours at the hotel and lay by the pool.

Rant over..

I flew with one of the biggest D-bags on the XL fleet 6 months ago. We both agreed to fatigue when we arrived at our destination. I'm throwing the covers on and I hear this idiot telling the FM that he was good to go, but my FO is the one tired!! Are you F'n kidding me. I said to him "thanks for throwing me under the bus jacka#@. I called the FM and told her what really happened and she already figured he was full of crap"

Anybody fly with the 9-11 conspiracy theory wack job lately? With guys like that still flying in the left seat, we are all in trouble.

 

[CRJFlyer]

Theres definitely no lack of d**chebags at NJA... unfortunately alot of them are safe for a very long time.

 

[fly4funcrj]

They aren't the safe ones. It's the other pilot that always seems to keep their a$$ outta trouble. That's the problem with our industry. If we were to let these aholes f up, we are both screwed. They are protected by default. Can we fill out an asap report for stupidity?

 

[rajflyboy]

At any rate >> the F BOMB report that was put into the IBB contract is a f... in joke in itself.

Who is the fool from the pilots side that agreed to this??

 

[nerdpilot]

No everyone is not fatiguing. A lot of the captains at NJA are f'n wimps when it comes to fatigue. They are scared p#$ a$$es. Am I clear? Have flown with many a captains that talk a big game. When asked how many times they have fatigued in their 14+ years the answer is 0. Flew with a tool the other day who was all "I'm going to fatigue then!!!". When the fm told him he needed to tell the acp his attitude was "well, we'll just see how I feel at the hotel. ".. Of course I had to drop the f bomb while he enjoyed the extra show time at the hotel. He looked like the hero that could do 14/10's.. I looked like the moron who had to fatigue. It's about time the union has stopped suckling the companies' nuts and show some leadership.. then again voting is around the corner so I guess change has to take place..

Either way, guys need to stop flying fatigued and sick.. Take the time off and spend it with the family or enjoy the few extra hours at the hotel and lay by the pool.

Rant over..

Give this guy a break. First of all he paid for his interview, and then his type rating just like every other guy that has been at NetJets for more than 10 years, so he could fly a shinny new jet and get paid 30k a year for the majority of his time at Njets.
He has had it good for less than a handfull of years and doesnt want his high paying job to go away even though his flying fatigued not only puts everybodys job at risk if he screws up but keeps the numbers up so management doesnt have to bring anybody back. Screw the guys at the bottom of the senority list anyway because they didnt have to suffer as long as the senior guys who paid for their jobs.

 

[rajflyboy]

Give this guy a break. First of all he paid for his interview, and then his type rating just like every other guy that has been at NetJets for more than 10 years, so he could fly a shinny new jet and get paid 30k a year for the majority of his time at Njets.
He has had it good for less than a handfull of years and doesnt want his high paying job to go away even though his flying fatigued not only puts everybodys job at risk if he screws up but keeps the numbers up so management doesnt have to bring anybody back. Screw the guys at the bottom of the senority list anyway because they didnt have to suffer as long as the senior guys who paid for their jobs.

Come on now. Quit picking on the 2000 guys!

 

[jppt2000]

NJA is becoming more of a joke with every day that passes...the more time that passes the more I hope not to have to come back....

Unless there is some major growth in the size of some of the pilots/union balls....

With the attitude you have towards your fellow coworkers, why come back?
You'd be much happier at a major, you were born to fly the heavy metal.

 

[CRJFlyer]

With the attitude you have towards your fellow coworkers, why come back?
You'd be much happier at a major, you were born to fly the heavy metal.

Ok, then you keep flying tired and flying equipment that should be written up. Just read the last 411 and you'll understand where I'm coming from. Good god man even Luthi can see what/where this is heading. Open your eyes a bit.

Nothing against my co-workers, except those that are too afraid to fatigue or write a/c up because they want to be the saviors of the company. It's a fact that there are those that think if they get every flight accomplished no matter what, they'll somehow keep owners and improve NJA.

And BTW I'm trying not to come back, like many of the others also. NJA has become the worst job possible because most of the 495 can't find work BECAUSE of having worked for NJA. And recall in 5-10 years may be the only possibility of employment (that is enjoyable).

I'd be much happier if you licked the underside of my ballsack, but your probably already giving DS the reach around. (sorry couldn't resist)

 

[pilotyip]

not at all

And BTW I'm trying not to come back, like many of the others also. NJA has become the worst job possible because most of the 495 can't find work BECAUSE of having worked for NJA.

Not true at all, we figured if they were good enough for NJ, they would fit right in at JUS.

 

[rajflyboy]

Ok, then you keep flying tired and flying equipment that should be written up. Just read the last 411 and you'll understand where I'm coming from. Good god man even Luthi can see what/where this is heading. Open your eyes a bit.

Nothing against my co-workers, except those that are too afraid to fatigue or write a/c up because they want to be the saviors of the company. It's a fact that there are those that think if they get every flight accomplished no matter what, they'll somehow keep owners and improve NJA.

And BTW I'm trying not to come back, like many of the others also. NJA has become the worst job possible because most of the 495 can't find work BECAUSE of having worked for NJA. And recall in 5-10 years may be the only possibility of employment (that is enjoyable).

I'd be much happier if you licked the underside of my ballsack, but your probably already giving DS the reach around. (sorry couldn't resist)

The Union caused this themselves with the idiotic fatigue report in which you lose Sick Days for if you forget to do it. What a f in joke!