NJ Recalls

[FamilyGuy]

I know this is a dumb question: what is Art Basel?

Big modern/contempary art show in Miami Beach in December of each year. It typically attracts a lot of NJ owners, so much so that NJ has hosted a party for the owners the last several years. Since you primarily fly internationally it is understandable why it wouldn't be on your radar.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Big modern/contempary art show in Miami Beach in December of each year. It typically attracts a lot of NJ owners, so much so that NJ has hosted a party for the owners the last several years. Since you primarily fly internationally it is understandable why it wouldn't be on your radar.

Hahahaha! Hey G4, Family Guy thinks we still primarily fly international.

How is the dust on your passport?

Um, no. The company is pushing as many international trips as they can onto the Global fleet to try and get G owners to buy shares in the bloody thing. The Gulfstreams get the occasional international trip but mostly it's the "Gee, we're sorry your airplane broke and you took a four hour delay, how about a ride in a Gulfstream and aren't you happy now?" airplane.

 

[jonjuan]

Hahahaha! Hey G4, Family Guy thinks we still primarily fly international.

How is the dust on your passport?

Um, no. The company is pushing as many international trips as they can onto the Global fleet to try and get G owners to buy shares in the bloody thing. The Gulfstreams get the occasional international trip but mostly it's the "Gee, we're sorry your airplane broke and you took a four hour delay, how about a ride in a Gulfstream and aren't you happy now?" airplane.

Unintelligible. The Company fakes Gulfstreams breaking so owners are put on Globals, but they actually break, so they are ultimately put on Gulfstreams?

 

[imacdog]

I think he's referring to domestic recovery trips for other fleets.

 

[realityman]

Haven't decided yet. I HATE the thought of going on strike, but I would also HATE conflict with my fellow pilots, funnily enough. Civilized discourse is great, but ill feelings and coercion make me ill.

I honestly don't understand you. I mean, if you're not a fan of unions, or this union, I get that. Not everyone is. Nor is a union.going to solve EVERY problem employees may have, real or perceived. And yes, sometimes unions, even our union, can make mistakes in how some things are handled.

No, what I don't understand is how, especially with this EMT, you expect to make anything better without supporting the union. Okay, maybe you're one of the guys who is content with your pay and benefits. That's fine, except you surely realize what inflation is doing to your actual buying power of your pay every year. I'm guessing you've been here long enough that you've maxed out the payscale. In just 10 more years your buying power will be reduced by 30-40%. That's huge! And how do you hope to make any of that up? Are you really a believer that this EMT or WB will suddenly take pity on us and at least give us a cost of living adjustment?

Or are you afraid of making more money? Would it be so bad to be closer to, or on par with, our counterparts at the legacy carriers? Do you really believe we aren't worth that? Do you really believe NJA or the clients can't afford that? Please don't tell me they'll just go someplace cheaper. NJA wouldn't have to raise prices much to cover large increases for us AND still turn a nice profit. As for the clients, it's well known our share prices are about 35% more than anyone else, and our Marquis cards are pretty darn pricey too, yet theyre needing to increase delivery rates and increase card prices to slow demand so we can keep up. If price was the problem, why aren't we shrinking?

But the point is, if you even want to have your pay just keep up with inflation your going to have to fight for it. That means supporting your union and engaging in things like picketing. I don't like it anymore than you do. Honestly. I'm a father and a pilot. I should have better things to do with my time than engage in union "thuggery". But for the sake of my family, and the profession, I really don't see a different path to follow right now. I wish it weren't so. But wishes and $.50 will get me a cup of coffee, nothing more.

A nice increase to our compensation package won't kill NJA. The same rhetoric was tossed around in '05, and guess what? After big increases in pay, we went on to make record profits inside of a year. So much for the union bankrupting the company.

The union won't kill the company. Management might, but not us. I just flew some clients who have been here for 23 years. They've seen it all here. Had a very interesting conversation with them (they initiated it and I remained professional and said nothing negative about our EMT) and believe me, they know the score and who is really damaging the company. I found it to be encouraging.

So join in the fight. What do you really have to lose? And if everyone would do so, this would be over a lot quicker and we might be enjoying a greatly enhanced compensation package. What could be wrong with that?

 

[gutshotdraw]

I think he's referring to domestic recovery trips for other fleets.

Exactamundo.

 

[pilotyip]

The union won't kill the company.

Hopefully that will be the case, won't is a word of a conscious path to be followed. This would mean that there will be a lot of bend in the negotiations on the unions part to ensure it won't kill the company or screw those on the bottom of the seniority list

But the union can destroy the company. Can is a word of ability. This would mean if the union doesn't get what is wants they exercise the nuclear option and scorch the earth.

oldie but fits here, In 1994 the UAW pushed GM into a deal it knew it could most likely not fulfill. It gave unlimited medical and COLA to retirees. GM knew a lengthy strike might drive them into BK. They had exhausted the equity markets, and borrowing was the only solution. Much like living off your credit cards. So they bet on maybe things would work, but they knew in the end they were in trouble. The power of a potential union strike drove them to make a bad management decision.

As they lost market share to foreign rivals, Detroit's auto makers and the UAW lost the power to set standards on labor costs. Yet during the prosperous 1990s, they seemed reluctant to accept the fact that their business model -- with its expensive defined-benefit health and pension programs -- was driving the domestic industry toward ruin. The UAW and its biggest employer have effectively conceded that their golden age of dominance is over.

GM executives consistently acknowledged that it couldn't be competitive in North America without a fundamental change in its labor-cost structure.

The UAW got a harsh lesson in the consequences of bankruptcy proceedings when former GM parts unit Delphi Corp. sought Chapter 11 protection in 2005, and pushed through substantial job and wage cuts under a deal subsidized by GM.

GM's obligation to provide health care for 412,356 union members, retirees and surviving spouses lies at the heart of yesterday's agreement. Even after a partial overhaul of retiree health-care benefits in 2005, GM still faced a $51 billion obligation to UAW members. Health-care obligations added more than $1,900 to the cost of every GM vehicle sold in the U.S. in 2006, a heavy burden given that many GM vehicles sold for less than competing Toyota vehicles.

 

[realityman]

Yip,

That is a good lesson. One that should always be kept in mind.

Nevertheless, I stand by my assertion that OUR union won't kill the company. As I said, we heard all the same rhetoric last time around. Just before we signed our "company-bankrupting" contract and then went on to make record profits in short order.

It's amazing what can be accomplished with happy, motivated, well-compensated employees.

Sadly, this EMT doesn't get it. Netjets is slowly dieing. Yes, I know, we're making record profits (again). They must be doing something right, yes? Except I'd say they're making money IN SPITE OF the actions they're taking. Netjets is still coasting on its brand image, which won't last forever as the EMT continues to destroy the brand.

It's very hard to explain to someone who doesn't currently work here. You have to see it in operation on a daily basis. The almost constant threatening emails from the company, the lack of support resources, the incredibly low morale from my fellow pilots and all the other employees, the reduced maintenance, the pressure to fly tired and sick, the greatly increased operational tempo, the huge churn rate of employees in Columbus, the sheer volume of unhappy and angry clients being flown, and the list goes on and on and on. I view our current profits as the calm before the collapse.

None of that stems from anything the union has done. Quite frankly, the union is the only entity that I feel gives one darn about my well being, which goes far beyond just compensation.

Like I said, you'd have to actually be here to understand. I'm not going to post confidential company and union emails on here even though you'd get a much better feel for what's going on. All I can tell you is we're not asking for anything they can't afford, and in fact have some proposals in which could help INCREASE productivity of the pilot group.

One example I am able to provide you of this EMT's intransigence is about riding the airlines. We've asked the company to negotiate with the airlines to give us all status on the big carriers. A lot of other companies have done this, including FedEx. And by "negotiate" I mean "ask". It would really be a no-cost item for the company. Something the airlines could extend to us because of the volume of business we do with them. But they refuse to do it because it's something the pilots want. Well that's just plain stupid because guess what? If we all have status on the airlines WE GET TO CHECK OUR BAGS FOR FREE!! A pretty substantial savings for the company! And it would cost them nothing to get it, as well as fostering a little good will amongst the largest employee group at the company.

It's convenient to blame a group you don't like (union) but in this case the union isn't the problem, or the entity endangering the company.

 

[G4dude]

Realityman and gutshot, etc, your posts are well done. I just feel if we get a big raise, we won't be able to compete. I would love to make more, but not if it costs us our jobs. Its just a different conclusion we have come to, all of us wanting the same things. If NJA went under, I would be fine, as I have other skills. But many of our colleagues would be in big trouble if NJA withers.

 

[G4dude]

Exactamundo.

Don't show off that Spanish lingo with me bud.

 

[gunfyter]

Don't show off that Spanish lingo with me bud.

I thought he was quoting The Fonz

 

[G4dude]

I thought he was quoting The Fonz

Gutshot is way too intellectual to quote the Fonz.

 

[G4dude]

Hahahaha! Hey G4, Family Guy thinks we still primarily fly international.

How is the dust on your passport?

Um, no. The company is pushing as many international trips as they can onto the Global fleet to try and get G owners to buy shares in the bloody thing. The Gulfstreams get the occasional international trip but mostly it's the "Gee, we're sorry your airplane broke and you took a four hour delay, how about a ride in a Gulfstream and aren't you happy now?" airplane.

Ha! However, the last 6 months I HAVE lived overseas. Go figure.

 

[johnsonrod]

Hahahaha! Hey G4, Family Guy thinks we still primarily fly international.

How is the dust on your passport?

Um, no. The company is pushing as many international trips as they can onto the Global fleet to try and get G owners to buy shares in the bloody thing. The Gulfstreams get the occasional international trip but mostly it's the "Gee, we're sorry your airplane broke and you took a four hour delay, how about a ride in a Gulfstream and aren't you happy now?" airplane.

Although I understand why you guys want to stay in the mighty Gulfstreams, isn't the plan that the Gulfstream pilots will ultimately transition over to the Globals and new 650s as the Gulfstreams depart? No former NJI pilots will be flying the Phenom or XLS - right?

 

[realityman]

Although I understand why you guys want to stay in the mighty Gulfstreams, isn't the plan that the Gulfstream pilots will ultimately transition over to the Globals and new 650s as the Gulfstreams depart? No former NJI pilots will be flying the Phenom or XLS - right?

I believe this is the plan. However, the way the displacement rules are written they can only displace pilots as airframes go away.

Apparently, they're having trouble getting rid of our old, technologically outdated high-time Gulfstreams. So as Global and Challenger deliveries progress, we may see a lot of open bids for those planes. It's possible some Gulfstream pilots may end up in the smaller fleets.

Also, although I take it with a grain of salt, I talked to the chief pilot of the GLC fleet and he says that due to a large number of current and impending retirements from pilots in the GLC fleet, they may actually need to have a class or two for pilots in the Gulfstreams. We'll see what happens with that.

Anyway, there is hope for us "small" plane drivers.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Gutshot is way too intellectual to quote the Fonz.

Actually, it's from Demolition Man....

NOT so intellectual.



And Dude, it's NOT about cost. It's about VALUE. Last weekend, I had an owner tell me and 11 other pilots on the picket line in Henderson that he and many of his friends who are also owners are more than willing to pay MORE to fly with us. He said "We know YOU GUYS make this place go. We love you and support you."

The company is delivering less value with more cost. That IS NOT the fault of the pilots, the flight attendants, the dispatchers, the mechanics, or the crew services people. It IS the fault of Jordan Hansell and the rest of the EMT.

A well-compensated, well-supported and VALUED employee group that is EMPOWERED to deliver world class service will deliver the VALUE that the owners demand. Happy employees equals happy customers equals higher profits.

It ain't rocket science but our CEO hasn't the first clue about what motivates employees or the consumers of a luxury service product.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Although I understand why you guys want to stay in the mighty Gulfstreams, isn't the plan that the Gulfstream pilots will ultimately transition over to the Globals and new 650s as the Gulfstreams depart? No former NJI pilots will be flying the Phenom or XLS - right?

I have no idea what the brain trust wants. All I know is I really DON'T want to fly the Global or the CL605/650. Since the Gulfstream fleet phase out has been pushed to at LEAST 2022, I'm not even starting to worry about what fleet comes next.

I AM worried about the management team of this company destroying what's left long before I have to worry about it.

 

[pilotyip]

I AM worried about the management team of this company destroying what's left long before I have to worry about it.

So you would be happy with a continuation of the status quo contract?

 

[gutshotdraw]

So you would be happy with a continuation of the status quo contract?

Nope. I'm taking a 4 percent pay cut every year because the people that negotiated this one failed to include COLA. That alone causes me to demand a substantial pay INCREASE just to get back to where I would have been without the pay freeze since Nov 2010.

Management status quo virtually guarantees the slow death of the brand.

Step 1: A new CEO

Nothing else matters until Step 1 is acheived.

 

[JustPlaneTruth]

Nope. I'm taking a 4 percent pay cut every year because the people that negotiated this one failed to include COLA. That alone causes me to demand a substantial pay INCREASE just to get back to where I would have been without the pay freeze since Nov 2010.



Management status quo virtually guarantees the slow death of the brand.



Step 1: A new CEO



Nothing else matters until Step 1 is acheived.

Step one won't happen for a long time. WB does not see it the same way as the Pilot group does. He is making money and could not care less about the Labor situation at this point. Doubt he will give in to labor demands as it would set a precedence.

I assume the pay cut you speak to is a loss of buying power per year. What data are you using to get 4%? The government CPI for 2014 it takes $1.15 to buy what $1.00 did in 2007. That is less than 4% per year.

Doesn't individual NJA pay increase at 3.5% per year?