NJ Recalls

[gunfyter]

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/fractional/netjets

This page last updated: September 11, 2013 (union, active pilots)
PILOTS
Total: 2980
Active: 2715
Furloughed: 265

What does AirlinePilotCentral know that we don't know?

My seniority list has only 2512 active and 465 furloughed....

 

[av8trinabarrel]

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/fractional/netjets



What does AirlinePilotCentral know that we don't know?

My seniority list has only 2512 active and 465 furloughed....

Looks like just about anybody can do an update over there. Would be nice if it was even remotely true.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

465 furloughed...

Thought it was 495. Perhaps 30 folks died. (not kidding--some were in late 60s/early 70s)

 

[jetlag7]

Thought it was 495. Perhaps 30 folks died. (not kidding--some were in late 60s/early 70s)

495 was never the exact number. It was the number the company originally announced, and that number just sort of stuck in our minds...

There were several "management pilots" who chose to surrender their seniority numbers in order to dodge the furlough which lowered the overall number.

If I recall correctly, the final count of actual furloughed pilots was 482.

 

[gunfyter]

Some have resigned

 

[amaineiac]

495 was never the exact number. It was the number the company originally announced, and that number just sort of stuck in our minds...

Ahhh, that explains it. I bumped into a "seasoned" captain one night in a hotel van. I mentioned I was one of the 495 and he looked confused. The FO explain that I was one of the furloughed guys, but he still looked confused. All this time, I thought he didn't know guys were on furlough, turns out I was just using the wrong number.

 

[billybob]

When you get into your late 60s and 70s it is very hard to remember everything

 

[BuckMurdock1]

When you get into your late 60s and 70s it is very hard to remember everything

Apparently including the fact that some in this industry are simply trying to feed their family and carve out some sort of 'career' while the "seasoned" crowd often continue to work out of "boredom" and the desire for a third motoryacht. (sorry- couldn't resist)

some resigned.

I'd presume that all resignations were under duress (as in new employer 'forced' them to give up recall rights in exchange for employment). Why would ANYONE voluntarily give up recall rights at ANY company?! I'm one of several at my airline who got caught in this scenario..and my company was the only one in this industry hiring at the time of the furlough. NetJets is the only unionized carrier that I know of who have honored forced resignation letters.

 

[billybob]

old guys 70+
if i have a crew bag and a walker when i airline, does the walker count as a personal bag?

sorry


back to the task at hand

 

[BuckMurdock1]

old guys 70+
if i have a crew bag and a walker when i airline, does the walker count as a personal bag?

sorry


back to the task at hand

If one of the greedy old b*stards is airlining and they declare emergency; do they count him among "souls on board?" ...Or does it go something like this:

ATC: "Copy your emergency. Say Souls on board and fuel remaining"
Airline crew: "42,000 lbs; one hundred thrity five souls, two lawyers, one politician, and one geriatric NetJets pilot."

 

[BentOver]

NetJets is the only unionized carrier that I know of who have honored forced resignation letters.

The ball was dropped, fumbled, intercepted or simply kicked out of bounds when it came to NJASAP on that issue... I remember 2010-11 when this was a huge deal and seemed to be brushed aside by NJASAP

 

[BuckMurdock1]

The ball was dropped, fumbled, intercepted or simply kicked out of bounds when it came to NJASAP on that issue... I remember 2010-11 when this was a huge deal and seemed to be brushed aside by NJASAP

I gathered as much. They'd be well informed to rectify it fairly soon (before recall letters go out), as I know of at least a few groups of the affected pilots grumbling about lawsuits; perhaps class-action in nature. The only remedy sought is simply their recall right/seniority list status restored.

 

[OPECJet]

There's a work around. Won't post it here, but it exists.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

There's a work around. Won't post it here, but it exists.

Do tell. PM me if necessary & I can spread the 'rumor' amongst those I know who are affected. May save NJASAP & NJA some $$ in unnecessary legal fees.

Of course the ideal solution is for the company & NJASAP to simply contact the affected and state "Sorry for selling you down the river and honoring a forced resignation letter when you were simply trying to feed your family. Your recall rights and seniority have been restored." If Santulli were still there, that's how it would be addressed (actually would've never happened in first place). Just Say'in...

 

[OPECJet]

Posted it on the NJASAP furloughed page. Can you get on there?

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Posted it on the NJASAP furloughed page. Can you get on there?

Well..no. We aren't furloughed in the eyes of NJASAP & NJA-- we are 'former employees'. All access to anything was shut down as soon as NJA received the bullsh*t forced resignation letters.

Like I said; either you can PM me and I could disseminate advisory info privately (not like I'm gonna say OPECJET told me), or strongly suggest to NJASAP to get in front of this issue before they get slapped with totally unnecessary legal fees. All they have to do is what's right. If some clandestine "work around" is the best they've got...I'm sure most guys will settle for that as long as it restores recall right/seniority.

Thanks...

 

[Xcorporate]

So your saying that while your were furloughed, a job was offered to you. This job required you to give up your seniority number at NJ in order to accept it. NJASAP said take the job we are confident that resignations won't be honored by the company. You took the job and they honored the resignations. Is this correct?

 

[BuckMurdock1]

So your saying that while your were furloughed, a job was offered to you. This job required you to give up your seniority number at NJ in order to accept it. NJASAP said take the job we are confident that resignations won't be honored by the company. You took the job and they honored the resignations. Is this correct?

I was lucky enough to get a job so soon after furlough that I didn't even get a chance to ask..and my new employer did not mention anything about a forced resignation letter until my 1st day of class. I've heard that subsequent guys who ended up in this situation were told by NJASAP that they will work with the company to disregard resignation letters. This obviously did not happen.

Guys-- this kind of scenario is "table stakes" at any unionized carrier. It is and has been understood by ALPA, teamsters, etc jointly with the respective managment.. that the only way a furloughee loses his recall status is literally if he dies. At my company alone--I have seen scores of Delta, United, American pilots return when recalled (despite the forced resignation letter). It's so commonplace and accepted as industry norm, that I'm actually surprised any of these sh*tbag employers even bother to have a newhire sign a forced resignation..as they are NEVER honored. -----Except at NJA apparently---
This is why I suspect that if it comes to litigation, there will be a lot of industry/CBA precedent and perhaps some evidence of "malpractice" on the part of NJASAP. (the fact that something as basic as this was overlooked and not addressed)

 

[DC-4]

Malpractice on the part of NJASAP were do I begin. Anyone who thinks that NJASAP has supported the furloughed is wrong. Its been so bad and the refund dues thrown in our face so many times that many furloughed have wanted to pay the money back to the union just so they cannot say it anymore. There is no unity with respect to NJASAP and the furloughed.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I was lucky enough to get a job so soon after furlough that I didn't even get a chance to ask..and my new employer did not mention anything about a forced resignation letter until my 1st day of class. I've heard that subsequent guys who ended up in this situation were told by NJASAP that they will work with the company to disregard resignation letters. This obviously did not happen.

Guys-- this kind of scenario is "table stakes" at any unionized carrier. It is and has been understood by ALPA, teamsters, etc jointly with the respective managment.. that the only way a furloughee loses his recall status is literally if he dies. At my company alone--I have seen scores of Delta, United, American pilots return when recalled (despite the forced resignation letter). It's so commonplace and accepted as industry norm, that I'm actually surprised any of these sh*tbag employers even bother to have a newhire sign a forced resignation..as they are NEVER honored. -----Except at NJA apparently---
This is why I suspect that if it comes to litigation, there will be a lot of industry/CBA precedent and perhaps some evidence of "malpractice" on the part of NJASAP. (the fact that something as basic as this was overlooked and not addressed)

Two questions.

How do you know for sure until recalls at NJ begin? It's quite possible that the "workaround" can't be implemented until recalls start.

Why on earth would you want to come back? I still don't get why a junior guy (or girl) would come back staring at crappy morale, out of control union politics, a protracted contract fight, and a 10-15 year upgrade when there are lots of jobs starting to open up across the industry.

Serious questions.