Nicolau Award

[gutshotdraw]

USAPA leadership has said they will appeal and I haven't any idea if the court will accept the case. This I do know: if the 9th Circuit does take the case, USAPA will LOSE. AGAIN.

 

[doh]

I just keep butting my head up against the "what happens when there are no more appeals" question. There is no strategy beyond that. Then the angry FO club is really going to be angry.

 

[waveflyer]

again- what are the penalties if the east continues to delay?

 

[cactusboy53]

again- what are the penalties if the east continues to delay?

Contempt of court? Maybe Cleary, Mowrey and the gang spend a few nights in Joe Arpaio's tent city????? Free pink jumpsuits & underwear. Baloney sandwiches for lunch.

 

[FR8mastr]

Where are you guys coming up with union delays?

What on Earth makes you think Doug wants a contract with any kind of raise when he has the worst paid pilots in the country?

I know the only thing you guys like to do is bash USAPA, but are you really on here crying because they have not come up with another concessionary contract?

Have any of you even bothered to look at the price you will pay in order to get the 3% raise promised by your hero? A contract is much more than an hourly number.

Yea I know all that does not fit into the USAPA is the root of all evil campaign. Just try and remember in about 5 years or so, you and your fellow USAPA bashers will actually be running it. Who will you blame then?

 

[TWA Dude]

Just try and remember in about 5 years or so, you and your fellow USAPA bashers will actually be running it.

There's that 5-year promise again. In 1999 I was told I'd be a TWA captain in five years. In 2004 I was told I'd be an AWA captain in 5-7 years. You'll forgive us if we don't take your word for it. We'll believe it when it happens and not a day sooner.

Who will you blame then?

The damage caused by the East's withdrawal from contract negotiations in 2007 will last the rest of our careers. Someday even you may realize where the blame lies.

 

[PHXFLYR]

There's that 5-year promise again. In 1999 I was told I'd be a TWA captain in five years. In 2004 I was told I'd be an AWA captain in 5-7 years. You'll forgive us if we don't take your word for it. We'll believe it when it happens and not a day sooner.The damage caused by the East's withdrawal from contract negotiations in 2007 will last the rest of our careers. Someday even you may realize where the blame lies.

Beeeeeauuutiful ....!!!!! Couldn't have said it any better myself if I tried.:beer:


PHXFLYR

 

[DOVPILOT]

Maybe Republic can buy US.

watch out what you wish for, it may happen before you know it!!!

 

[DOVPILOT]

will last the rest of our careers.....

Well, that all depends on how OLD you are...LOL

 

[PHXFLYR]

Where are you guys coming up with union delays?

What on Earth makes you think Doug wants a contract with any kind of raise when he has the worst paid pilots in the country?

I know the only thing you guys like to do is bash USAPA, but are you really on here crying because they have not come up with another concessionary contract?

Have any of you even bothered to look at the price you will pay in order to get the 3% raise promised by your hero? A contract is much more than an hourly number.

Yea I know all that does not fit into the USAPA is the root of all evil campaign. Just try and remember in about 5 years or so, you and your fellow USAPA bashers will actually be running it. Who will you blame then?

Interesting choice of words and sort of ties in with some recent and rather nasty PM's recently exchanged between east pilots and west on another webboard. Is this another veiled threat from the angry FO club ?? Or am I taking this out of context ??? Care to clarify what exactly is meant by the phrase "the price you will pay ???? " I'm sure we would all like to know.

PHXFLYR

 

[FR8mastr]

The damage caused by the East's withdrawal from contract negotiations in 2007 will last the rest of our careers. Someday even you may realize where the blame lies.

That goes right back to the concessionary contract. Did you look at the work rule changes the company wanted in order to give you your 3% raise?
My guess is there was something else you would get with a contract that made all other things irrelevant.

 

[FR8mastr]

Interesting choice of words and sort of ties in with some recent and rather nasty PM's recently exchanged between east pilots and west on another webboard. Is this another veiled threat from the angry FO club ?? Or am I taking this out of context ??? Care to clarify what exactly is meant by the phrase "the price you will pay ???? " I'm sure we would all like to know.

PHXFLYR

Threat?? you really need to put down the Clancy novels. The contract the company offered was completely unacceptable, the raise promised would not get us to industry standard and the work rules got even worse. Working under LOA 93 is bad, but these changes would make all of our lives hell.

As far as the angry FO club, seems to me especially on these boards, there are a boat load of angry FO's, but they are not flying East metal.

By the way I never play Internet tough guy, if I have something nasty to say to someone it will be in person.

 

[Carl S.]

The East members of the "Angry F/O Club from Cranberry" outnumber the few West pilots by 10 to 1 at a minimum on web boards where screennames and personal threats do not exist! Like at USAviation where every pilot is in the top 517 and will vote no till the end, the false machismo is so thick you could cut it. Must have a warm fuzzy this week at the "ELITE" EMB-190 division out East, look into that fragmentation section in your CBA!

 

[PHXFLYR]

Threat?? you really need to put down the Clancy novels. The contract the company offered was completely unacceptable, the raise promised would not get us to industry standard and the work rules got even worse. Working under LOA 93 is bad, but these changes would make all of our lives hell.

As far as the angry FO club, seems to me especially on these boards, there are a boat load of angry FO's, but they are not flying East metal.

By the way I never play Internet tough guy, if I have something nasty to say to someone it will be in person.

Spoken like a true east coast thug. By the way since when did you USAPA goons ever express an interest in "all of our lives? " Seems like Parker could offer an industry leading contract payable in gold ingots and you ladies would still vote it down if it included the Nicolau seniority list. Who are you kidding ?? USAPA's M/O from this point forward is to delay as long as possible. It's the only thing you got left. And you know it.

PHXFLYR

 

[doh]

PHX, I think you need to pull back a little. All of his comments about the contract were simply against what he sees as hidden concessions. Like the Airtran offer that had a big increase in hourly and took away all the work rules. All he was trying to say was that you need work rule and pay gains to make a decent contract.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

IMHO, as much as the east guys were poor losers, the west side have been poor winners.

Despite the fact that they were handed a lottery ticket by the arbitrator, which, frankly, was brought on by the east guys themselves, the west pilots have done nothing but inflame the situation from that day...dancing around and singing "we won we won we won, nanananana!", KNOWING full well the situation was unacceptable to the east guys.

Rather, they had an opportunity to be magnanimous in victory, be a little bit flexible, and work something out. They could have saved themselves some money, potential furloughs and made a small step from saving their airline from a death spiral. But like a child being told to share their toys, all we get is "No! I won! It's MINE!".

What's going to happen in this case is going to be the same. Some adult is going to get tired of listening to it, and take away the toys from BOTH children. Then the fun will be over...

Nu

 

[Lampshade]

Heyas,

IMHO, as much as the east guys were poor losers, the west side have been poor winners.

Despite the fact that they were handed a lottery ticket by the arbitrator, which, frankly, was brought on by the east guys themselves, the west pilots have done nothing but inflame the situation from that day...dancing around and singing "we won we won we won, nanananana!", KNOWING full well the situation was unacceptable to the east guys.

Rather, they had an opportunity to be magnanimous in victory, be a little bit flexible, and work something out. They could have saved themselves some money, potential furloughs and made a small step from saving their airline from a death spiral. But like a child being told to share their toys, all we get is "No! I won! It's MINE!".

What's going to happen in this case is going to be the same. Some adult is going to get tired of listening to it, and take away the toys from BOTH children. Then the fun will be over...

Nu

If you had to live under the USAPA leadership your point of view would be drastically different.

 

[NuGuy]

If you had to live under the USAPA leadership your point of view would be drastically different.

Ironic, since the west MUST take some of the blame for the envrionment which led to it's creation.

Look, I'm not absolving the east of anything, and they made some bad choices leading up to the arbitration, BUT, rather than manning up and trying to defuse a bad situation, the west made sure it only got worse.

If you're in a divorce, and trying to get the house from your partner, sure, you make your pitch in court. If you win, it doesn't do any good if your ex-partner is sooo pissed that they burn the house down. Despite what happens to them down the road if they do, your irreplaceable collection of baseball cards is still burned up along with the house.

Rather, you use your win as a little bit of leverage...like to pay them what you were going to anyway. You don't lose a single thing since you were going to have to pay someone anyway, and you come off as the hero, instead of a homeless person claiming "but, but...I won!!".

Nu

 

[m80drvr]

Ironic, since the west MUST take some of the blame for the envrionment which led to it's creation.

Look, I'm not absolving the east of anything, and they made some bad choices leading up to the arbitration, BUT, rather than manning up and trying to defuse a bad situation, the west made sure it only got worse.

If you're in a divorce, and trying to get the house from your partner, sure, you make your pitch in court. If you win, it doesn't do any good if your ex-partner is sooo pissed that they burn the house down. Despite what happens to them down the road if they do, your irreplaceable collection of baseball cards is still burned up along with the house.

Rather, you use your win as a little bit of leverage...like to pay them what you were going to anyway. You don't lose a single thing since you were going to have to pay someone anyway, and you come off as the hero, instead of a homeless person claiming "but, but...I won!!".

Nu

So I quess in yoour world it's ok to go to vegas and put all your money on a keno (lottery, your term) ticket, even thought the dealer tells you that your odds an winning are 10,000,000 to one. You lose, then you complain to the dealer that it was not a fair outcome, It's not what you expected or even better, you deserve to win because you have been betting at that casino for 20 years. You deserve to win. It's your right due to your vast gambling experience. I'm sure the casino will give you your money back....

Get over it man. When you are told that you will NOT get date of hire from the arbitrator because it it totally unfair to the other side, yet you still DEMAND date of hire from said arbitrator what do you expect? Why should ANY pilot give up their career expectations to make the USAir pilots whole. They chose to stay at the WORST performing major in the United States. A"major" that was all but out of business.

Using your logic all arbitrations in the US are null and void unless both sides like the outcome. When negotiations fail you go to arbitration and deal with rolling the dice. It's funny that you think that relative seniority is not fair. Walk a few feet in the shoes of a west pilot before speak about what you have no clue about

 

[formerdal]

So I quess in yoour world it's ok to go to vegas and put all your money on a keno (lottery, your term) ticket, even thought the dealer tells you that your odds an winning are 10,000,000 to one. You lose, then you complain to the dealer that it was not a fair outcome, It's not what you expected or even better, you deserve to win because you have been betting at that casino for 20 years. You deserve to win. It's your right due to your vast gambling experience. I'm sure the casino will give you your money back....

Get over it man. When you are told that you will NOT get date of hire from the arbitrator because it it totally unfair to the other side, yet you still DEMAND date of hire from said arbitrator what do you expect? Why should ANY pilot give up their career expectations to make the USAir pilots whole. They chose to stay at the WORST performing major in the United States. A"major" that was all but out of business.

Using your logic all arbitrations in the US are null and void unless both sides like the outcome. When negotiations fail you go to arbitration and deal with rolling the dice. It's funny that you think that relative seniority is not fair. Walk a few feet in the shoes of a west pilot before speak about what you have no clue about

Chill dude...he's not even a US air guy. He is right however, you guys waved the winning lottery ticket in their faces and now your paying the price for it.